One Saint's Vision of Hell

[cheddarsox]

are you being humble… or sarcastic?

But one does know right from wrong, godly from ungodly… One knows when one is at enmity w/ God… and has choices every step of the way in life… As you say yourself: Have you ever been raped? Have you ever had someone do something really unjust and horrible to you?? Then you will know something of how God feels about evil… He hates it… because He cares about His people (everyone) and does not want evil & horror to happen to them… (St. John 4:8). When evil happens to people, it happens to God (St. Matthew 25:31)… People forget that… So, basically, God takes all this abuse from people… (through his followers)… and then, what - @ the end of their wicked lives, htey are supposed to get away with all that - some being guilty of even killing (abortion) God??? God himself??
No, i don’t have a problem beliving in a God who is so holy and good that He will not tolerate such hateful, demon-possessed people to be in His eternal Presence…

i have mercy on those who are truly sorry… Those who are not sorry… Well, i pray for them… I pity them the most… but that doesn’t mean i want to be in their presence any more than God does…
St. Faustina suffered a lot for sinners… they get to the point where they don’t believe Jesus will have mercy on them… but He never rejects anyone… abortionists, pornographers, etc. Even Stalin and Hitler could have been forgiven… if they had only repented… (& god knows whether they did or not)…

I was being honest, In many ways I think I am very childlike, or as some say, childish.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have been raped, tortured, and more. And I don’t wish an eternity of suffering on any of those who did that to me. But, as we’ve both said, I’m not God, it’s not my call.

Those that harmed me, are good Catholics, every one. They are saved, I am damned. I accept that. I don’t understand it, but I accept it. I get the part about what is bound on earth is bound in heaven and what is loosed, etc.

I know they’ve gone to confession and moved on. But there is no confession for one who lacks belief. I’ve called out to God, prayed for faith…no reply.

People keep telling me I choose hell. Telling me my pride is getting in the way. Apparently I am going to be judged even more harshly because I was taught the truth held by the Catholic church and rejected it. It feels more like it rejected me. But then again…I’m not God. I don’t get to call the shots. I am just supposed to trust and accept, and I don’t.

 

[LutheranDK]

HITLER WAS ONLY BORN A CATHOLIC, HE CONVERTED TO PROTESTANISM WHEN THE ATROCITIES STARTED…so please stop using the term he was Catholic when he wasn’t in his later life when it was more important.

Please be so kind as to document that Hitler ever converted away from the Roman-Catholic church?
Yes, he acted in blatant disregard of it, and couldn’t care less if the RC approved of his decisions, but to my knowledge he never officially converted away.

And when do you say that the atrocities began? Because even before he came to power in 1933, the Nazi party under his leadership committed horrible acts of brutality.

Am I trying to blame the RC for Hitler’s crimes?
NO!

I just want evidence for the statement that Hitler became protestant. And I suspect that serious historians would also like such evidence.
Because methinks that what is going on here is a rather tiresome trail of thought: “Protestantism is evil, so people who commit evil deeds are protestants…”, or something else to that effect.

 

[LutheranDK]

So what’s it like being Christian in Saudi Arabia?? Are Christians there not allowed to practice their faith very well??

Christians in Saudi Arabia are not allowed to practice their faith at all as far as I know…

 

[R_not]

HITLER WAS ONLY BORN A CATHOLIC, HE CONVERTED TO PROTESTANISM WHEN THE ATROCITIES STARTED…so please stop using the term he was Catholic when he wasn’t in his later life when it was more important.

You are right. I guess my point was that he wouldn’t have gotten away with all the atrocities - and neither would have Stalin, mohammed, PolPot, Mao, etc - if it weren’t for a bunch of men who helped to do the deeds of the slaughtering of so many. No matter what we say so often - that it was this or that group of people, the poor, the uneducated, etc - there had to be many of different classes of people to help these thugs out in each of these situations in order for them to gain power. In the government, schools, churches, etc people helped Hitler gain power.

When good men do nothing… well, you all know the saying.

 

[Cathdefender]

Please be so kind as to document that Hitler ever converted away from the Roman-Catholic church?
Yes, he acted in blatant disregard of it, and couldn’t care less if the RC approved of his decisions, but to my knowledge he never officially converted away.

And when do you say that the atrocities began? Because even before he came to power in 1933, the Nazi party under his leadership committed horrible acts of brutality.

Am I trying to blame the RC for Hitler’s crimes?
NO!

I just want evidence for the statement that Hitler became protestant. And I suspect that serious historians would also like such evidence.
Because methinks that what is going on here is a rather tiresome trail of thought: “Protestantism is evil, so people who commit evil deeds are protestants…”, or something else to that effect.

Read Hitler’s biography.

 

[R_not]

Please be so kind as to document that Hitler ever converted away from the Roman-Catholic church?
Yes, he acted in blatant disregard of it, and couldn’t care less if the RC approved of his decisions, but to my knowledge he never officially converted away.

And when do you say that the atrocities began? Because even before he came to power in 1933, the Nazi party under his leadership committed horrible acts of brutality.

Am I trying to blame the RC for Hitler’s crimes?
NO!

I just want evidence for the statement that Hitler became protestant. And I suspect that serious historians would also like such evidence.
Because methinks that what is going on here is a rather tiresome trail of thought: “Protestantism is evil, so people who commit evil deeds are protestants…”, or something else to that effect.

he didn’t become a protestant so much as a pagan. He used symbolism along with nationalism, socialism and the lure of telling the Germans that they are the superior race. It is a strong lure - socialism in a time when the Germany economy was bad.

I don’t know anywhere where socialism cures any ills. All it does is cut out human creativeness and progress. It is a stagnation.

He would actually start out his speeches with Bible references and then degrade into hatred and along with the lure of his promises and telling them they were superior - well, it was appealing to many. but, also - he was never voted in with a majority vote.

 

[LutheranDK]

Read Hitler’s biography.

Did you just ask me to read “Mein Kampf” and find your reasoning myself???
That’s NOT how a discussion goes!
You back up your claims with arguments, you don’t go around demanding that your “opponents” find your arguments.

So until you produce your arguments yourself, as well as a reference to WHERE in Hitler’s biography they can be found, your statement shouldn’t be taken seriously…

Plus, you didn’t answer my question: When do you say that Hitler’s atrocities began? And when/where did he convert away from the RC-church? Such a momentous event MUST have been noticed in newspapers, old radio broadcasts, etc…

 

[LutheranDK]

he didn’t become a protestant so much as a pagan. He used symbolism along with nationalism, socialism and the lure of telling the Germans that they are the superior race. It is a strong lure - socialism in a time when the Germany economy was bad.

Thank you - this is what I thought myself. So the claim that Hitler became a protestant is blatantly false.

 

[Shoshana]

I would be very careful in putting Hitler or any other person in hell…the Church does not even do that! Hell exists and it is a terrible place! Our Lady of Fatima showed it to the children and St john Bosco had many visions of it. There are different stages of hell, just like there different stages of heaven.

 

[LutheranDK]

There are different stages of hell, just like there different stages of heaven.

With all due respect, this sounds more like gnosticism and Greek mystery religions than biblical Christianity…

 

[Shoshana]

With all due respect, this sounds more like gnosticism and Greek mystery religions than biblical Christianity…

Well, you can pertain this to whatever, but in my book, it is truly Catholic:

Early Christian writing
From the early second century, we have a fragment of one of the lost volumes of Papias, a Christian bishop, who expounded that “heaven” was separated into three distinct layers. He referred to the first as just “heaven”, the second as “paradise”, and the third as “the city”. Papias taught that “there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce a hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold”.
In the 2nd century CE, Irenaeus (a Greek bishop) wrote that not all who are saved would merit an abode in heaven itself. In Against Heresies, he wrote that only those deemed worthy would inherit a home in heaven, while others would enjoy paradise, and the rest live in the restored Jerusalem.citation needed]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven

 

[R_not]

I would be very careful in putting Hitler or any other person in hell…the Church does not even do that! Hell exists and it is a terrible place! Our Lady of Fatima showed it to the children and St john Bosco had many visions of it. There are different stages of hell, just like there different stages of heaven.

We are not supposed to judge. What if we find out, after we die, that Hitler, mohammed, Stalin, Mao,etc had an actual physical problem that caused him to do what they did? The real problem lies with the followers who do not have brain damage that blindly follow such creeps.

And I was taught that a person can ask for forgiveness right up to that last iota of a second. And it is up to God to forgive and pass judgement.

In the meantime, I have no problem saying those types of men are evil! What they did was evil. When they lived on earth and what they showed us was evil.

As for hell - I suppose no one knows unless they go there so I don’t like to get into that part of it.

 

[Shoshana]

We are not supposed to judge. What if we find out, after we die, that Hitler, mohammed, Stalin, Mao,etc had an actual physical problem that caused him to do what they did? The real problem lies with the followers who do not have brain damage that blindly follow such creeps.

And I was taught that a person can ask for forgiveness right up to that last iota of a second. And it is up to God to forgive and pass judgement.

In the meantime, I have no problem saying those types of men are evil! What they did was evil. When they lived on earth and what they showed us was evil.

As for hell - I suppose no one knows unless they go there so I don’t like to get into that part of it.

I am hearing you. But what happens if these leaders were possessed? The pope has tried to exorcise Hitler and our popes have said that they MAY have been possessed. So where does that put evil people like Dahmer, or any other who possibly were possessed? Due to a brokenness in their own lives that was caused by the previous generation? Does that send them to hell?

I believe in hell…big time…and I think it is downplayed these days by all. We are to pray fro serious sinners. But even to commit mortal sin requires three conditions…so now what?

 

[R_not]

I am hearing you. But what happens if these leaders were possessed? The pope has tried to exorcise Hitler and our popes have said that they MAY have been possessed. So where does that put evil people like Dahmer, or any other who possibly were possessed? Due to a brokenness in their own lives that was caused by the previous generation? Does that send them to hell?

I believe in hell…big time…and I think it is downplayed these days by all. We are to pray fro serious sinners. But even to commit mortal sin requires three conditions…so now what?

I listened to Dahmer and he certainly knew right from wrong. I have listened to Hitler - and I don’t know since we didn’t hear what he would have said if he got caught. Look at Hussein - he went to his death having us believe he was a-ok with his killing and torture of so many.

Like I said - I have no problem with saying they are evil - but, what will you do if you see a Hitler, or Dahmer - and for me, mohammed - in heaven?

Leave it to God for that part of it. For the rest - to say that they were evil and did evil on this earth - I have absolutely no problem with that aspect of it all. If they are in heaven and cringe - so be it. If we don’t pass on the correct versions of history - it will be repeated.

I don’t have one clue as to who asks for forgiveness and who does not. Some have said they did so while in prison - and they are let loose and just go back to what they always did n and some don’t. then there are some who say they asked for forgiveness and are put to death. I have no idea who is the true repentent.

I would say that when you die - ask God for the reasons why. I don’t know if it is presumptuous or not to ask why. This reminds me of that movie that bashed Catholics - Dogma. When at the end where the gal asks God ‘why is she here?’ and all God does is touch her nose and make a stupid noise. It wasn’t for her to know.

 

[Shoshana]

Then let us touch on the fact that Our Lady of Fatima said that there were going to be many who go/are in hell back in 1917. And then let us look at the teaching of what constitutes a mortal sin. Does this jive?

If many people were going to hell on 1917 and even St Faustina’s time, was the teaching on mortal prevalent then? This is where it is confusing.

As far as possession, those who are possessed are called victims. As they are.

Taken from Sr. Lucia’s Third Memoir (August 31, 1941) with the final sentence taken from her Fourth Memoir (December 8, 1941).

Well, the secret is made up of three distinct parts, two of which I am now going to reveal.

The first part is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly:

"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: But if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the holy father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays.
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010fea1sb.asp

And it looks like WW2 was used as a form of punishment for the many sins committed. And obviously, Hitler was used. How does one explain that? Does that even hold true today, that God would use an event like 9-11?

 

[Shoshana]

I listened to Dahmer and he certainly knew right from wrong. Iquote]

Are you aware that full possessed are the ones that have all their wits about them? Even more than your average joe blow?

 

[R_not]

Then let us touch on the fact that Our Lady of Fatima said that there were going to be many who go/are in hell back in 1917. And then let us look at the teaching of what constitutes a mortal sin. Does this jive?

If many people were going to hell on 1917 and even St Faustina’s time, was the teaching on mortal prevalent then? This is where it is confusing.

As far as possession, those who are possessed are called victims. As they are.

Taken from Sr. Lucia’s Third Memoir (August 31, 1941) with the final sentence taken from her Fourth Memoir (December 8, 1941).

Well, the secret is made up of three distinct parts, two of which I am now going to reveal.

The first part is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly:

"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: But if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the holy father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays.
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010fea1sb.asp

And it looks like WW2 was used as a form of punishment for the many sins committed. And obviously, Hitler was used. How does one explain that? Does that even hold true today, that God would use an event like 9-11?

And it seems that we still haven’t learned, or done what Mary asked us to do. Now we have many more being slaughtered worldwide. We have threats of nuclear annialation, as do the Jews, by not only Ahmadinejad - but also al qaeda. We have jihads renewed not only against us, but also India (late last year), and against others.

If God used an event like 9/11 - we still haven’t learned. Most have gone back to sleep and are not standing up to the evil that we face today - because we see them as not bothering us and their facade is one of peace.

We, as a human race, is unable to face evil. Too many appease evil - and their countries go like a Christian Lebanon went - and how Europe is going. And we still don’t learn. We just think it is ‘over there’ and we do exactly what the people of Hitler’s time did - get lulled into the appeasement mode and just go on with our own lives while our children are being brainwashed in our schools - not only by the secularists of the left, but now by muslims.

So, what is mortal sin? Is it the horrible deeds that are done - or the lack of will to stand for what is right?

I can tell you that standing for what is right is not easy. Many people just joke, laugh, get angry, call people names. We think that we are not to stand for anything and to just sit back and take it. Well, we see what is happening in Africa - they are being slaughtered because they do no fighting. And what is going to happen to their children? They will be condemned, if they live, to islam.

 

[Cathdefender]

Thank you - this is what I thought myself. So the claim that Hitler became a protestant is blatantly false.

Your arrogance will get the best of you my friend,

Adolf Hitler converted to Protestanism on April 25, 1933 in Konigsberg, Eastern Prussia according to the National Secretary Klundt. His atrocities were just only beginning.

 

[LutheranDK]

Your arrogance will get the best of you my friend,

Adolf Hitler converted to Protestanism on April 25, 1933 in Konigsberg, Eastern Prussia according to the National Secretary Klundt. His atrocities were just only beginning.

If this is true, then I shall utter that one magic word: Revoco.
But before I do that: Please cite your source - preferably a non-RC one.
Because if not, then I could say that Hitler converted back to the RC church, and not back that up either.

 

[Cathdefender]

If this is true, then I shall utter that one magic word: Revoco.
But before I do that: Please cite your source - preferably a non-RC one.
Because if not, then I could say that Hitler converted back to the RC church, and not back that up either.

Sorry, just gave you my source, and it isn’t a RCC one. I am done now.