One Saint's Vision of Hell

[mangy_dog]

I indeed do have a very childish attitude.

I think most people have no concept of what hell is, if indeed this vision is correct.

One cannot choose what one does not know.

Even the worst human, who wreaked the greatest suffering and havoc does not deserve to suffer thus for all of eternity.

But I am not God, so it’s not my call.

Is the vision of hell supposed to help us love God?

My suffering in life has made me more merciful toward people. I guess I know what happens to people like me.

The thread about the vision of hell was quite specific as to whom it was intended for.

If the shoe doesn’t fit - don’t wear it. But don’t under-estimate the horrible nature and consequence of sin.
You want to learn about God’s mercy? Then learn about Purgatory. Or the many opportunities we recieve in life to do His will, to prepare for the hour of our death.

Don’t think about hell if it bothers you that much. I’m with you, it is a horrible thought. But my sins, your sins, the sins of the world are more horrible because everytime we sin, we nail Jesus to the cross.

Look at Christ crucified…then tell me sin isn’t horrible.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[mangy_dog]

For everyone that is horrified and shaken to their souls at the descriptions of hell…

Think about that the next time you feel that this or that criminal should get the death penalty.

Gospa Mir.

 

[Lilyflower]

I feel the same way, but keep in mind that God does not send anyone to hell. The wicked and unrepentant flee from His presence, ending up in a very bad place.

If you are a better person because of what you have suffered in this life, then you’re better off than you seem to realize. Too many others cannot make that claim.

We may rest-assured Almighty God will leave no stone unturned in His efforts to secure for us our eternal destiny. He did after all give His OWN Son up to heinious death so that we might live.

If we end up there, it will be no fault of God. He will not send us there, we will chose to go there by our choice to reject Him.

If they chose to reject Him then it is THEIR CHOICE NOT HIS!

It seems some on this thread are trying to blame God because some chose to reject Him. In a sense they are already partly in hell because they have chosen already not to know Him. They have already chosen to live without Him. But the essence is: THEY not HE have chosen.

Blessings and peace

 

[LutheranDK]

don’t mean to offend, but Protestant sources cannot always be trusted… I was taught a Protestant version of history while growing up in this school system in the uS. Big chunks of important history are left out completely… not even referred to (for example, how the Catholic missionaries came to this country, converted the Indians, started schools, etc…)…

I have gotten to the point that i only wnat to read Catholic books…

but for most of my life, i read anything but… didn’t even hardly know there was a “Cahtolic” story to r ead… (history)… so i have a long way to go before things are “equalized”…

I really can’t recognize the image you paint. Church history is an integrated part of my studies, and I know full well of the work Roman-Catholic missionaries did in the New World - especially to protect the Indians from abuse by European colonists.
But can you see where I’m coming from? I’m being asked to accept a statement that would come as a total surprise to historians on…well, on nothing except that an anonymous poster on an RC-internet forum who won’t even give his source.

The way I see it, an RC-source would be less than reliable in this case, and therefore I’d like to see the statement backed up from an independant (that is: not protestant either!) source before I take it seriously.

 

[cheddarsox]

It did feel rather a slap to have you ask someone who told you they were raised Catholic if they knew about the Real Presence, sorry, that’s how it felt.

Many of the people who have said that are here on CAF. And I have already taken steps to get myself out of contact with them, by making arrangements for my friends to contact me in ways other than the PM system here, so I am taking your advice.

I get away from “things” all the time, and spend time with the Divine. It was just such a moment that was most seminal in my “conversion”…though it was more of an embracing what I knew and believed inside than a change of heart.

Thank you for hanging in there with me for this discussion.

What r u talking about? I just asked u a question, that is all… I didn’t assume one way or the other… It is easy to let people form your opinion of the Church, evne when know, on a conscious level that that is not “right”… I have been there… I have not just crawled out from a rock either… and i am sure there are plenty of other Catholics here who have experienced this coldness and antagonism from other Catholics…
And, as stated, i heard what i feel was the voice of the devil myself… I may have heard it several times… but wasn’t always sure it was him… , we can never be sure… in this life… but i would never throw the baby out with the bathwater… For one thing, The Church needs ALL her members… and needs all the potential members out there who don’t believe in Her…
u say something very wise here… only to ruin it with the very next sentence (just my opinion): You keep going back to what other say/think… If it were me… I would get these people out of my life entirely, if u haven’t yet…

I have had to cut off many “friendships” , even family members i love deeply because they were not respectful of my beliefs… & were dragging me down… (very down…)… “If your foot causes u to stumble…”

satan disguises himself as an angel of light…

Do you ever just get away from everything & everyone and go out into some secluded spot in nature (but not too far away from civilization… in other words, a SAFE place) where ther are NO humans?? Frannkly, i believe that human relationships are what leads most people to Hell… Humans are conduits for Satan… sometimes intentionally, sometimes not…
I think u need 2 get away from everything… talk to God with no one to interfere or whatever… God doesn’t either… He understands better than anyone… which of course, goes without saying…

 

[LutheranDK]

knowing things like that makes me apreciate this country more… although, as i said b4, this country in’t perfect either (long story…)… There is a lot of violation of the Constitituion here…

The Supreme Ct. violated the Constitution to legalize the killing of the unborn… and they refuse to “re-violate it” (as it were) to once again protect unborn children… Actually, they wouldn’ have to re-violate the C… the C actually supports a right to life… but our country is schizophrenic… We preach “christian” values on some issues and forget about them with others… Our country treated Blacks horribly… finally Right won out… Then there were the Mexicans and the Indians…

I know it sounds simplistic but it all stems from M. Luther breaking w/ the Church… All Hell, literally, has broken loose… since he believed in that once saved always saved nonsense…
If you cn get into Heaven without changing, without doing good… well, then, why do good?? And so people don’t…

Luther did not preach OSAS - Calvin did.
And that’s only ONE of the many things in this post that was downright wrong.

It IS simplistic, and it is so simplistic that it’s absurd.
Luther did NOT say that good works were irrelevant - please read up on what Luther actually said of this, if you’re going to be talking about it.

Good works don’t save you. In the relationship between us and God - as far as the question “Are you saved?” goes - good works have no place.
BUT
True faith WILL manifest itself in good works. But faith comes first - and is the only thing that will save you! - works come later and are a consequence of the fact that you ARE saved.
Why do something that pleases God if I can’t save myself by it, you ask?
Well…
Do you want to please your Father in Heaven?

 

[LutheranDK]

Sorry, your source is not reliable.

LOL - and you just decided that here and now?
How convenient…

A couple of questions, though:

1: What do you base this judgement on? This seems to me like a classic case of killing the messenger…

2: You have not yet provided ANY source whatsoever (let alone a reliable one) to back up YOUR claim.

Please do!

 

[cheddarsox]

The thread about the vision of hell was quite specific as to whom it was intended for.

If the shoe doesn’t fit - don’t wear it. But don’t under-estimate the horrible nature and consequence of sin.
You want to learn about God’s mercy? Then learn about Purgatory. Or the many opportunities we recieve in life to do His will, to prepare for the hour of our death.

Don’t think about hell if it bothers you that much. I’m with you, it is a horrible thought. But my sins, your sins, the sins of the world are more horrible because everytime we sin, we nail Jesus to the cross.

Look at Christ crucified…then tell me sin isn’t horrible.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

I don’t recall telling anyone or even implying that sin is not horrible. Sorry if you took it that way.

I know firsthand the consequence of sin, my own as well as that of others, at least the consequences in this life.

 

[LutheranDK]

it stands to reason there would be levels of Hell… not everyone is at the same level of evil… Hitler and Stalin would not be on the same level as say… someone who rejected Jesus but lived a “good” life, more or less… anyway…

I just can’t see the Scriptural justification for such a distinction between “those who are more evil”, and “those who are less evil”.
This sounds to me more like an attempt at making the Gospel more acceptable to the pharisee in all of us.

“Oh, I know I’m a sinner, but at least I’m not HALF as bad as THIS guy”.

Scripture clearly states that whosoever is not found in the Book of Life - he will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. It makes no distinction, i.e. “But Satan and the Beast were cast into the deepest layer of the Lake…”, or something like this. It makes no distinction, so neither can we.

All those who die without Christ, even if they may have lived a “good” life by our human standards, are just as eternally lost as Stalin or Mao (barring the possibility that these two repented in the last moments before their deaths).

The “pharisee within” hates this kind of talk - but it is the talk of God’s word.

 

[LutheranDK]

Sorry, just gave you my source, and it isn’t a RCC one. I am done now.

Erm…no.
You attributed a statement to someone whom I can’t check up on, and did not tell me where you got that information from.
Because I’m guessing that you’re not old enough to be an eye-witness, nor heard it from “National Secretary Klundt” 's own mouth?

So please tell me where you got this information. You might think that you’re “done”, but not if you want to be taken seriously.
So: Give me your source, please.

 

[Shoshana]

Erm…no.
You attributed a statement to someone whom I can’t check up on, and did not tell me where you got that information from.
Because I’m guessing that you’re not old enough to be an eye-witness, nor heard it from “National Secretary Klundt” 's own mouth?

So please tell me where you got this information. You might think that you’re “done”, but not if you want to be taken seriously.
So: Give me your source, please.

Red St Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica…everything is in there!

 

[Lilyflower]

Erm…no.
You attributed a statement to someone whom I can’t check up on, and did not tell me where you got that information from.
Because I’m guessing that you’re not old enough to be an eye-witness, nor heard it from “National Secretary Klundt” 's own mouth?

So please tell me where you got this information. You might think that you’re “done”, but not if you want to be taken seriously.
So: Give me your source, please.

If at the moment of death the soul can experience the reality of Christ, it will not reject it. By comparison all else pales away into insignificance. There is no alternative. I believe that even Hitler if he experienced the Ultimate Reality would have chosen to spend an almost eternity in purgatory in the hope of final union.

No soul would in my experience reject Christ on death. His awesome love and peace just does not equate to any other human experience so it is not so much a choice as the only option worth considering.

Blessings and peace

 

[Shoshana]

If at the moment of death the soul can experience the reality of Christ, it will not reject it. By comparison all else pales away into insignificance. There is no alternative. I believe that even Hitler if he experienced the Ultimate Reality would have chosen to spend an almost eternity in purgatory in the hope of final union.

No soul would in my experience reject Christ on death. His awesome love and peace just does not equate to any other human experience so it is not so much a choice as the only option worth considering.

Blessings and peace

In a roundabout way, are you saying that there is no soul in Hell?

 

[Protestant101]

No soul would in my experience reject Christ on death.

How do you know this??? Have you died?

This St. Faustina sounds almost word for word like Jonathan Edwards, a devout Protestant of the past. It is interesting that a Catholic and a Protestant would have the same “vision” of what they say is “hell.” Then a Lutheran comes along in this thread and blows it all away by saying this “hell” has not yet happened! We should be scared of all these wacky theories!!

 

[Lilyflower]

In a roundabout way, are you saying that there is no soul in Hell?

No I am not saying that., I do not know.

I am saying that based on my own personal experience of a mystical encounter with the Risen Christ perceived by the senses, His awesome love joy and peace which acompanies Him is such that no soul would in my experience chose any alternative to Him.

By comparison the world has absolutely nothing to boast of and absolutely nothing to offer.

I now realise why we do not experience Almighty God by the senses. Having done so, one no longer wishes to continue to live this existence. One wants to vacate this life. One simply does not want to be separated from Him.

From my own personal experience, given a choice, one would not hesitate to leave this existence to be with Him. He is so attractive in His awesome love, peace and joy that accompanies Him.

If a soul experienced that on death, it would not chose any alternative. There quite simply IS NO ALTERNATIVE to Him. One realises on meeting HIm that He is the purpose for our existence. and that He is our ultimate destiny. He is so magnetic in His awesome love that I just cannot imagine any soul being able to resist being with Him. There is simply nothing else by which to compare.

Blessings and peace

 

[Shoshana]

How do you know this??? Have you died?

This St. Faustina sounds almost word for word like Jonathan Edwards, a devout Protestant of the past. It is interesting that a Catholic and a Protestant would have the same “vision” of what they say is “hell.” Then a Lutheran comes along in this thread and blows it all away by saying this “hell” has not yet happened! We should be scared of all these wacky theories!!

Not only St Faustina, but also many other Saints. St John Bosco is one off the top of my head. We also have the vision of hell by the three children in Fatima. I think I already posted this.

Taken from Sr. Lucia’s Third Memoir (August 31, 1941) with the final sentence taken from her Fourth Memoir (December 8, 1941).

Well, the secret is made up of three distinct parts, two of which I am now going to reveal.

The first part is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly:

"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: But if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the holy father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays.
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010fea1sb.asp

 

[Shoshana]

No I am not saying that., I do not know.

To me, the logical conclusion to your statements were that there was nobody in hell.

I am saying that based on my own personal experience of a mystcal encounter with the Risen Christ perceived by the senses, His awesome love joy and peace which acompanies Him is such that no soul would in my experience chose any alternative to Him.

I am happy that you were blessed with such a gift…although it is more common than you know. Senses, because we are human, cannot be trusted. You can receive the same sentiment from an angel of light.

By comparison the world has absolutely nothing to boast of and absolutely nothing to offer.

This is absolutely correct.

I now realise why we do not experience Almighty God by the senses. To do so, having done so, one would no longer wish to continue to live this existence. One wants to vacate this life. One simply does not want to be separated from Him.

We cannot really wholly experience God with the senses…we would die.

From my own personal experience, there is nothing else one wants but to remain with Him. Given a choice, one would not hesitate to leave this existence to be with Him. He is so attractive in His awesome love, peace and joy that accompanies Him.

Again, God bless you. Tou are being wooed.

If a soul experienced that on death, it would not chose any alternative. There quite simply IS NO ALTERNATIVE WORTH CONSIDERING.

This is where you are wrong. Our senses die at death. When we encounter Jesus Christ, we basically see ourselves as we really are. One cannot help that when one is in the Light. His Light shines upon our soul…and of course there is His love and mercy…but there is also justice.He is also a just God. And, the teaching of the CC has it that we will go to one of either three places.

It would be best to do our purgatory here… But that is purgation, this will come after the wooing…

Blessings and peace

 

[bilop]

If at the moment of death the soul can experience the reality of Christ, it will not reject it. By comparison all else pales away into insignificance. There is no alternative. I believe that even Hitler if he experienced the Ultimate Reality would have chosen to spend an almost eternity in purgatory in the hope of final union.

No soul would in my experience reject Christ on death. His awesome love and peace just does not equate to any other human experience so it is not so much a choice as the only option worth considering.

Blessings and peace

But those who do not believe, who are obstinate in sin, will likely not recognize God’s Grace. From all I’ve read of the Saints and their visions, Hell is full of those who have heard the Word, and rejected it.

God Bless

 

[Lilyflower]

Shoshana:
From my personal encounter, I would willingly chose to spend an almost eternity in purgatory in anticipation of that ultimate union.

My experiences were 100% sensual - not in the sexual sense.

When the Holy Spirit first arrived, I did not know what was going on. The enormous roare of His power was awesome but not in the least bit frightening because it was accompanied by His great awesome peace. His power is so powerful great and awesome that all human strength, arms and armies pale into absolute nothingness. They are equal to nothing.

Then came the encounter. I could not make sense of it at first. That was hardly surprising given that it was outside of the realm of my experience. There was nothing in human memory [neo-cortex] to compare it with. We can only make sense of the world by what we know. If we do not know, we cannot understand. But when one meets the Risen Lord in this life, you naturally try to assimilate what you are experiencing with what you already know. But you have no resources to fall back on. Then you realise that awesome power, love, peace, joy sheer unadulterated happiness, then comes that which is too emotional for me to describe here.

Please do not get me wrong or misunderstand me. I am a scarlet sinful wretch,. I was in no way deserving of the encounter. I had done nothing to earn it. It was His free gift, I know not why. I am pure unadulterated sin. I wish I were not so. My flesh is so weak, I judge myself totally unworthy of Him and volunteer myself to Purgatory to put right that which stands between me and Him.

Great and glorious is our God, His is the victory, He reigns for ever and ever. He IS and that is all that matters. He is the ultimate reality. All else is trivia

Blessings and peace

 

[Shoshana]

From my personal encounter, I would willingly chose to spend an almost eternity in purgatory in anticipation of that ultimate union.

My experiences were 100% sensual - not in the sexual sense.

When the Holy Spirit first arrived, I did not know what was going on. The enormous roare of His power was awesome but not in the least bit frightening because it was accompanied by His great awesome peace. His power is so powerful great and awesome that all human strength, arms and armies pale into absolute nothingness. They are equal to nothing.

Then came the encounter. I could not make sense of it at first. That was hardly surprising given that it was outside of the realm of my experience. There was nothing in human memory [neo-cortex] to compare it with. We can only make sense of the world by what we know. If we do not know, we cannot understand. But when one meets the Risen Lord in this life, you naturally try to assimilate what you are experiencing with what you already know. But you have no resources to fall back on. Then you realise that awesome power, love, peace, joy sheer unadulterated happiness, then comes that which is too emotional for me to describe here.

Please do not get me wrong or misunderstand me. I am a scarlet sinful wretch,. I was in no way deserving of the encounter. I had done nothing to earn it. It was His free gift, I know not why. I am pure unadulterated sin. I wish I were not so. My flesh is so weak, I judge myself totally unworthy of Him and volunteer myself to Purgatory to put right that which stands between me and Him.

Great and glorious is our God, His is the victory, He reigns for ever and ever. He IS and that is all that matters. He is the ultimate reality. All else is trivia

Blessings and peace

There is so much more to come and God be with you and in you! You must have kissed the Face of God!