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gam197
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The full report will be out in September.
One-third of evangelicals believe Jesus was a “good teacher," but "not God”
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The full report will be out in September.
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1Lord1Faith
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The way this statement is worded makes me skeptical about the whole study. The statement seems a little tricky. Unless one is up on their theology of the Trinity they may not catch what’s wrong with the statement. Are the rest of the questions like this?
What sort of theology puts Jesus as “the first creation” but not divine? That doesn’t even make sense. Is he supposed to be an angel before being human? I suspect the study had some flaws. Or, there is some sort of Christian theology floating around out there that is very popular but that I’ve never heard of??
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gam197
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The study will be out in September and the article doesn’t say if Catholics were also questioned.
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Pattylt
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The way the question is worded, it makes me suspect that they were aiming for these low numbers as a way to kick pastors in the rear to evangelize their constituents better.
In a previous survey a question about the Eucharist had problems, too. The way it was asked, a knowledgeable Catholic would have answered it “incorrectly” as well…even though it was the question that was wrong, not their understanding.
In a previous survey a question about the Eucharist had problems, too. The way it was asked, a knowledgeable Catholic would have answered it “incorrectly” as well…even though it was the question that was wrong, not their understanding.
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MNathaniel
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It’s the latter.
My own mother asked me last year about beliefs about Jesus and when I mentioned that the dominant Christian belief is that Jesus is God, she has literally never heard of it.
As a concept, she had never heard of it.
I don’t mean she just rejected or disagreed with it or thought only fringe groups thought it.
She didn’t know that anyone at any point in history had ever thought it.
And she’s theoretically a baptized Christian, has attended at least Christmas/Easter services throughout her life, had her own children baptized and sent them to Sunday school.
I’m making such an emphasis of this point because I think those raised within Catholicism (and who understand and practice Catholicism seriously enough that they’re on CAF, by whatever combination of circumstances) need to understand how radically many outside Catholicism, including those who self-identify as Christian or at least Christian-affiliated, are unfamiliar with even the most basic Christian teachings.
They’re not ignorant of Jesus as a literary figure — but in many regions they’re deeply and widely immersed in a world of assumptions about him just being one prophet among many, a human teacher, maybe even a legendarily embellished figure if he historically existed at all. (But the embellished/mythical perspectives on Jesus often doesn’t include believing the myth teaches he’s God: many have never even heard that anyone believes that’s part of the ‘myth’. Rather, they think literally the inclusion of miracle accounts are the mythical parts, and that Christianity as a religion with theological and ritual structures (etc) was significantly overlaid after the fact and almost in spite of who Jesus really was.)
If some of us on CAF seem intense about poor Christian catechesis sometimes, this is why. Some of us have seen how bad it gets, and potentially spent most of our lives in that ignorance too. So we recognize that knowledge isn’t the default with a tiny corner of ignorance somewhere… ignorance is the default and there’s a tiny spark of light in one place.
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TMC
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Most members of pretty much every religion have little to no understanding of theology. Which is just one reason these kinds of surveys are not particularly useful.
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1Lord1Faith
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Okay.
I wasn’t aware that was such a prevalent belief among non-Catholic Christians.
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MNathaniel
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Well, it’s useful if you care about how many individual humans understand the truth about Jesus.
Basic theology like ‘Jesus is God the Son’ doesn’t have to be obscure occult knowledge accessible only to those with university degrees.
I might argue that if the content of our worship and homilies don’t effectively teach people that Jesus is God, we’re (A) doing something wrong; and (B) that does matter for the individual members of each denomination.
Frankly if a similar survey shows a similar trend among Catholics (though I’d honestly expect less confusion on this point among Catholics)… I might be in favour of a priest starting every homily for a year with:
Or just start interspersing his mention of Jesus in homilies with:
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Pattylt
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I have a feeling that many mainstream denominations have decided to go with the secular scholars that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet that the apostles later raised to divinity.
In my mind, they aren’t really Christians per say anymore. I’m not sure what to call them…culturally Christian secularists? Does kind of roll off the tongue!
In my mind, they aren’t really Christians per say anymore. I’m not sure what to call them…culturally Christian secularists? Does kind of roll off the tongue!
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MNathaniel
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I think I should apologize for overstating myself a bit.Okay.
In my comment I said:
But the truth is I don’t know that. I mean, I don’t actually know what’s more widespread than something else. I don’t know which is the default and which is the corner.
I guess we all have our bubbles, and from within them our bubble can seem like the whole world. For me, the bubble that’s always surrounded me has been one it sounds like you haven’t been exposed to much (that is, the world of people who have literally never heard that anyone has ever thought Jesus is God). So I react with what seems widespread to me, or with what I’ve seen and heard close up (like from my Mom). I react based on the very baseline catechetical conversations I have to have with people I know.
But I’d have to defer to actual surveys to reflect what the proportion of various beliefs are. And realistically, even this evangelical survey doesn’t suggest the majority got it wrong.
What I should have originally said is that I have personal experience of it on what seems like a wide-sphere from within my sphere. When you’re in the middle of a minority, they’re still the majority compared to you. And I live in a wacky land. But I do have to remember that not everything is all bad and there probably are areas where people have widespread understanding of basic things I didn’t grow up understanding.
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ReaderT
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Same. I was a Protestant/non-denominational in college when I first realized that Jesus was God. I knew He was human and “Lord” but didn’t know about “God”. Years of frequent church (even Bible study) didn’t make that clear to me.
Same with the concept of “Trinity”.
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Feanor2
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Huh. I thought Evangelicals were all about Jesus.
Maybe they are just ignorant of basic theology.
Maybe they are just ignorant of basic theology.
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EricF
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They way Jesus represents himself to us doesn’t leave “just a food man” as one of the options. They way in which he presents himself leaves only three options. 1. He is a liar. 2. He is a mad man. Or 3. He is the eternal living son of God.
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ReaderT
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Yes - no offense to evangelicals and nondenoms (I was one). They know Jesus is “Savior”, “Master”, “Son of God” and even “Lord”, but they don’t know He’s God. Usually when they say “God” they are referring to the Father.
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