One Year Timeframe for Infant Baptisms?

[adrift]

It’s customary in Byzantine Tradtion churches to wait until the 40th day, so the prayers for the mother can be read and she can be present.

Is there a reason that the mother can’t be present before forty days?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My daughters parish only baptizes every two months.

I would simply insist that they follow Canon Law and provide the Sacraments in a more timely manner for those who are prepared to receive them. If not contact the Bishop.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Yes it is.

Can. 867 §1 Parents are obliged to see that their infants are baptized

**within the first few weeks**

. As soon as possible after the birth, indeed even before it, they are to approach the parish priest to ask for the sacrament for their child, and to be themselves duly prepared for it.

§2 If the infant is in danger of death, it is to be baptized without any delay.

Precisely the bit that is less rigid than the first Saturday after [the baby] is born, wouldn’t you agree? (Which, I understand, was merely the opinion of one poster, and which is fine for him. But can you imagine if everyone felt the same? Think of the poor minister of baptisms – Babies are not born on strict schedules – Father/Deacon might not know until Friday night whether he will need administer Baptism the following day!)

tee

 

[AndyF]

There is no one year time frame for confessions. If you have unconfessed mortal sins, you risk your salvation by delaying confession by even one day.

Likewise, by delaying the baptism of a baby, you risk his salvation if something were to happen to him.

A baby should be baptized the first Saturday after he is born. To wait even one month is too long, IMHO.

God Bless

CC1457.According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58

Surely, an infant who carries only the taint of original sin is not less worthy than one who is in the state of original sin, commits sins daily of any category, and now finds himself burdened with serious sin?

Andy

 

[ConnorsMommy]

Someone mentioned that the baptism has to be done within the first 30 days. I have a question about that. In my case, I had a cesarean delivery, and even at 30 days, I would not have been physically able to participate in the ceremony (I had a long and difficult recovery!) What would you do in that case? Should the mother not participate?

 

[AndyF]

Friends:

I thank you all for your thoughtful responses.


I think that if we can resolve the purpose of the year’s grace for serious sin, we can shed further light on the issue of timely baptisms.

<br><br>   What exactly is the purpose of the one year's grace and what conditions is the effect a positive one for the individual, and when is it a negative?. If it is a grace, then it must be a *good* in favor of the individual. Please keep in mind we are talking about a repentant unabsolved individual who is in a state of serious sin.

If it is not a time frame where an action has an option of occuring and still have worth, then what is it?

<br><br>If the grace(liberty) is now canon law, how can he be faulted for confessing a serious sin on the 364th day?

<br><br>But lets keep perspective. Does it really matter the seriousness of the mature sinful state as it regards the state of infants? What I mean is the infant is still in a better state than any adult burdened by numerous venial sins, or even just one for that matter. The grace is bestowed on those who are *in sin*, not those absolved and cleansed has with any infant.

<br><br>Still, with this range of potentials for the matured, the Church can find some leeway for charity for them. <br><br>Andy

 

[adrift]

I would simply insist that they follow Canon Law and provide the Sacraments in a more timely manner for those who are prepared to receive them. If not contact the Bishop.

This parish bothers me for more than one reason. I was horrified when I attended Holy Thursday but that is another story. Unfortunately, it is a very liberal diocese. I am preparing a letter to the Bishop but I wonder since I am an outsider, I don’t even live in the same diocese if it will matter? Since I am not a parishioner, I feel intimidated to tell another parish what to do.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Someone mentioned that the baptism has to be done within the first 30 days. I have a question about that. In my case, I had a cesarean delivery, and even at 30 days, I would not have been physically able to participate in the ceremony (I had a long and difficult recovery!) What would you do in that case? Should the mother not participate?

If I would have known for sure from the outset I would have had the baby baptized as soon as reasonable; if the duration of recovery were uncertain I might have let it wait a few weeks. But my child’s salvation is more important than my remembering his baptism or even getting to take part. No doubt, in that situation, I would have had the baby baptized without my presence.

Surely, an infant who carries only the taint of original sin is not less worthy than one who is in the state of original sin, commits sins daily of any category, and now finds himself burdened with serious sin?

Andy

But lets keep perspective. Does it really matter the seriousness of the mature sinful state as it regards the state of infants? What I mean is the infant is still in a better state than any adult burdened by numerous venial sins, or even just one for that matter. The grace is bestowed on those who are in sin, not those absolved and cleansed has with any infant.



Still, with this range of potentials for the matured, the Church can find some leeway for charity for them.

Andy

An infant burdened by original sin and an adult burdened by what we might call “original sin plus” are, from a certain standpoint, in the same boat. That is, the adult who has sinned has more for which he must be forgiven, but each by their original sin is equally cut off from God. An infant with original sin, furthermore, is in far worse shape than a baptized adult with only venial sin, because the adult is leading a graced life while the baby has not received grace, and his original sin imposes an impediment to grace.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I would simply insist that they follow Canon Law and provide the Sacraments in a more timely manner for those who are prepared to receive them. If not contact the Bishop.

If your daughter is affected by this (unreasonable delay of Baptism) then as a member of the parish/diocese it would be her place to contact the pastor or Bishop.

 

[Khoria_Anna]

Is there a reason that the mother can’t be present before forty days?

In the Eastern church, there are ususally prayers offered immediately after the birth, then, eight days later, a naming service (ususally usually the priest come to the home), then, forty days after the birth, the mother presents herself and the child at church for the first time for the 40 Day Blessing.

As a modern new mom, considering following my husband into the Eastern Church, the prohibition from entering the church until the 40 days were complete really offended my sensibilities. UNTIL it was explained to me that this was basically the same as the Family Leave Act, giving the mother and child time for bonding, healing, snd coming into the realization of their new status as family in the community.

DD was baptized, chrismated (Confirmed) and received her first Holy Communion on the first Saturday following the 40 day blessing. So, what one finds in the Eastern Church, is that from day 1, the mother and child are in close contact with with the Church, with the full intention from day 1 to initiate the child as soon as possible.

 

[Jsmith17]

The Catechism itself states that it is not a foregone conclusion that unbaptized infants are “damned”, as my sister in law puts it. She baptizes ASAP because she doesn’t like the idea of driving around with a baby who hasn’t been baptized. She honestly believes her baby, if something happens and he/she is not baptized, will go to hell. I personally think this shows a lack of faith in God’s infinite mercy.

We hope that deceased unbaptized infants are in heaven.

We know that deceased baptized infants are in heaven.

I believe your sister shows an abundance of faith in God’s infinite mercy and grace provided to us through the Sacraments.

 

[tee_eff_em]

In the Eastern church, there are ususally prayers offered immediately after the birth, then, eight days later, a naming service (ususally usually the priest come to the home), then, forty days after the birth, the mother presents herself and the child at church for the first time for the 40 Day Blessing.

As a modern new mom, considering following my husband into the Eastern Church, the prohibition from entering the church until the 40 days were complete really offended my sensibilities. UNTIL it was explained to me that this was basically the same as the Family Leave Act, giving the mother and child time for bonding, healing, snd coming into the realization of their new status as family in the community.

DD was baptized, chrismated (Confirmed) and received her first Holy Communion on the first Saturday following the 40 day blessing. So, what one finds in the Eastern Church, is that from day 1, the mother and child are in close contact with with the Church, with the full intention from day 1 to initiate the child as soon as possible.

Apparently neither unheard of in the West, nor by the same token as common (at least today). cf Churching of Women

tee

 

[VociMike]

CC1457.According to the Church’s command, "after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year."56 Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.57 Children must go to the sacrament of Penance before receiving Holy Communion for the first time.58

Surely, an infant who carries only the taint of original sin is not less worthy than one who is in the state of original sin, commits sins daily of any category, and now finds himself burdened with serious sin?

Andy

Here’s a simple question for anybody on this thread. Since we know that, in extraordinary circumstances, any person can baptize, if your own child were not baptized and in imminent danger of death, would you baptize the child yourself, or leave the child unbaptized and just trust in God’s mercy?

 

[puzzleannie]

Think of the poor minister of baptisms – Babies are not born on strict schedules – Father/Deacon might not know until Friday night whether he will need administer Baptism the following day!)

tee

it used to be common practice to baptize after the last Mass every Sunday, so the parents and godparents brought the babies at that time. In many cases it was the godparents, as the mother might still be “lying in” as bedrest was common for days or weeks after childbirth at that time. The delay now is often caused by the need for parent/sponsor classes, which should be taken care of before birth, but usually are not. The 40 days that was customary before “churching”, when the mother and new baby were brought to church for a special blessing, was taken from the Presentation of the Lord in the Temple 40 days after his birth, and Mary’s purification. Now that blessing is incorporated in the baptismal rite.

 

[happymommy]

Did anyone tell you that she could have been represented by a Proxy?

no!! But if we knew then that she was going to flake out and run up huge debt, leave her husband, with the huge debt, for another man and of course leave the Church, we would have picked someone else. Maybe the bedrest and Lenten timetable was God’s way of telling us to RUN!!

 

[AndyF]

Someone mentioned that the baptism has to be done within the first 30 days. I have a question about that. In my case, I had a cesarean delivery, and even at 30 days, I would not have been physically able to participate in the ceremony (I had a long and difficult recovery!) What would you do in that case? Should the mother not participate?

Then your child would have been given consideration for this.

Same for the other circumstances posted here. God knows the intent in our hearts and makes allowances.

Andy

 

[AndyF]

Here’s a simple question for anybody on this thread. Since we know that, in extraordinary circumstances, any person can baptize, if your own child were not baptized and in imminent danger of death, would you baptize the child yourself, or leave the child unbaptized and just trust in God’s mercy?

I once posted a few years ago that if one knows a child isn’t baptized, and the parent has no intention of doing so, whether it is permissible for me to do so secretly. The consensus was that it would be in poor taste to do so. The feeling was that it would be deceiving the parents.

I still came away with the opinion that the *common good *of saving the child was more important than the feelings of the parents. Eventually they would come to appreciate the act anyway.

Andy

 

[bilop]

I once posted a few years ago that if one knows a child isn’t baptized, and the parent has no intention of doing so, whether it is permissible for me to do so secretly. The consensus was that it would be in poor taste to do so. The feeling was that it would be deceiving the parents.

I still came away with the opinion that the *common good *of saving the child was more important than the feelings of the parents. Eventually they would come to appreciate the act anyway.

Andy

If the child is in danger of death you should baptize, even against the parents will.

God Bless

 

[AndyF]

Read Pastoralis Actio: if the child is in danger of death, it is to be baptized without delay" (Ordo baptismi parvulorum, Praenotanda, 8, par. 1, p. 17)

Sometimes that isn’t so obvious, witness infant crib deaths. It would seem their lives are always precarious at an early age.

Andy

 

[AndyF]

But there is no denying that God has revealed that baptized babies will go to heaven, and that he has not revealed this about unbaptized babies. Whatever God does he does for a reason, so why would anybody not “get the hint” that perhaps God wants babies baptized.

They are in limbo not heaven. It is common belief among theologians that they live a state of natural joy and contentment, but excluded from the vision of God. That is reserved for the elect.

Andy