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MindOverMatter2
Guest
When is a marriage valid? And if my wife dies, can I marry another women?
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DavidFilmer
Guest
The Church presumes that ALL marriages are valid, until proven otherwise. It does not matter if it is a Jewish marriage, or a justice-of-the-peace ceremony, or a pagan druid marriage, or whatever other situations you could think of.
Yes.
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Verbum
Guest
Hi Mind,
Catholic marriages are for Catholics. Catholics must marry before the Church, otherwise their marriage is invalid.
Non-Catholics can marry in a non-Catholic Church or in a civil ceremony or any legally accepted way.
Verbum
Catholic marriages are for Catholics. Catholics must marry before the Church, otherwise their marriage is invalid.
Non-Catholics can marry in a non-Catholic Church or in a civil ceremony or any legally accepted way.
Verbum
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joandarc2008
Guest
That being said if a Catholic wishes to marry a non-Catholic then they must receive a dispensation and the non-Catholic must agree he/she will not interfere with raising children Catholic or with the religious practices of the Catholic spouse.
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DavidFilmer
Guest
Oh, not this again. Why do so many Catholics hold this belief? It is not true. Where did this notion come from?
Their marriage is presumed valid until proven otherwise. Until then, the couple are regarded as validly-married Catholics in good standing, and are admitted to the full Sacramental life of the Church.
The “contrary is proven” by means of competent ecclesiastical authority (not by the opinion of a parish priest or various apologists). This would typically mean by a trial conducted by a marriage tribunal.
Until a tribunal says otherwise, the Church regards the marriage as valid. If it’s good enough for the Church, it’s good enough for me.
Until a tribunal says otherwise, the Church regards the marriage as valid. If it’s good enough for the Church, it’s good enough for me.
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beth40n2
Guest
Our vows are until death do us part!!!
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PaulinVA
Guest
In light of your post, please explain this from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops:
- What is the difference between a valid and an invalid Catholic marriage?
Just as individual states have certain requirements for civil marriage (e.g., a marriage license, blood tests), the Catholic Church also has requirements before Catholics can be considered validly married in the eyes of the Church. A valid Catholic marriage results from four elements: (1) the spouses are free to marry; (2) they freely exchange their consent; (3) in consenting to marry, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children; and (4) ***their consent is given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. Exceptions to the last requirement must be approved by church authority. ***
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HAnne
Guest
A marriage can be VALID without being Sacramental. Two different things. The Church uses the word “married” to denote the Sacrament of Marriage. It does not mean the union is not a legal, binding, civil “union” i.e., marriage.
Most marriages are actually VALID civil unions or in other terms a valid, legal, civil marriage. If they are not made in the Catholic Church or with dispensation, then they are not Sacramental. The exception to this would be if someone was previously married, etc etc etc.
For example, two Protestants marry. The Catholic Church assumes them to be in a valid, legal, civil marriage. They are not, however, in a Sacramental marriage because they are not part of the Catholic Church.
Two Catholics marry and choose not to marry in the church and do not get dispensation. They are also in a legal civil marriage that is valid, but it is not Sacramental because it was not done in the Church.
A Catholic and a non-Catholic marry without dispensation (my current situation). According to our priest, we are in a valid marriage or “valid civil union”. We will be bound in the Sacrament of Marriage after our Convalidation, which we are greatly looking forward to in the near future.
Hope this helps!
Most marriages are actually VALID civil unions or in other terms a valid, legal, civil marriage. If they are not made in the Catholic Church or with dispensation, then they are not Sacramental. The exception to this would be if someone was previously married, etc etc etc.
For example, two Protestants marry. The Catholic Church assumes them to be in a valid, legal, civil marriage. They are not, however, in a Sacramental marriage because they are not part of the Catholic Church.
Two Catholics marry and choose not to marry in the church and do not get dispensation. They are also in a legal civil marriage that is valid, but it is not Sacramental because it was not done in the Church.
A Catholic and a non-Catholic marry without dispensation (my current situation). According to our priest, we are in a valid marriage or “valid civil union”. We will be bound in the Sacrament of Marriage after our Convalidation, which we are greatly looking forward to in the near future.
Hope this helps!
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Califman831
Guest
“Oh, not this again. Why do so many Catholics hold this belief? It is not true. Where did this notion come from?”
Because marriage is one of the seven sacraments and the only valid minister of this sacrament is the Catholic priest. Not some judge and not some heretical minister of a false offshoot of the Catholic faith (i.e. protestantism). Of course, modernists will try to claim otherwise.
Because marriage is one of the seven sacraments and the only valid minister of this sacrament is the Catholic priest. Not some judge and not some heretical minister of a false offshoot of the Catholic faith (i.e. protestantism). Of course, modernists will try to claim otherwise.
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phoenixrrt62
Guest
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joandarc2008
Guest
phoenix- we don’t know anything about your situation - I see that it says that you are an atheist - if one of you was baptized as a Catholic and did not formally defect from the Church than yes that person had the duty marry in the Church. That being said the marriage is still presumed valid until challenged. Meaning if there was a divorce (which I assume there was because you said first -if there was death than the whole subject is mute as one would be released from the vows anyway) then the case would be a lack of form decree of nullity which is just a finding that the proper form of the Sacrament was not followed. It is fairly easy and less time consuming. It is not actually required in all dioceses.So my marriage to my first husband was invalid. News to me…
This being said as well the Catholic party is also not supposed to be taking Eucharist without speaking to the priest first. THere are a lot of moving parts to this but the underlying issue here is that the whole act of not being married in the Church falls under what intent it was done under and is an act of disobedience or ignorance at best. And I mean ignorance in the charitable way not the demeaning one.
I can’t answer question more detailed because I don’t know your specific issue. Sorry.
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DavidFilmer
Guest
Actually, in Latin Rite Catholicism, the minister of the Sacrament of Matrimony is the man and woman, who mutually confer it upon each other. The ordained guy (who may be a Deacon) only witnesses the Sacrament and pronounces the blessing of the Church upon the union.
The Catholic Eastern Rites (and the Orthodox Church) regard the ordained guy as the minister, but (unlike any other Sacrament) he is required to obtain the consent of the recipients (ie, he has to ask their permission in order to proceed with the ceremony).
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DavidFilmer
Guest
The statement lays out the criteria in which the Church considers a marriage valid. These would be the criteria that a Tribunal would use to make its determination when *considering *the validity of a particular union. But only a competent ecclesiastical authority (such as a marriage Tribunal) is empowered to undertake this consideration.
But I said (as Canon Law says) that ALL marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise (Canon Law says the validity must be “validity must be upheld,” which is the same thing as saying “presumed valid.”). “Presumed” is not the same as “considered,” but the two are identical in effect.
The word “consider” means “to think carefully about, esp. in order to make a decision; contemplate; reflect.” The Church does not “consider” the validity of ANY marriage until and unless the validity of that marriage is presented for such consideration before a marriage tribunal. Until then, NO marriage is “considered” valid, but ALL marriages are “presumed” valid.
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joandarc2008
Guest
Thank you David I know not all of my wording was exactly correct.
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Spirithound
Guest
From the Code of Canon Law.
Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.
The Catholic Church presumes the validity of those marriages which might actually be valid. A Catholic who married outside of the Church will indeed have to submit their marriage to the tribunal for a declaration of nullity, but it is a separate process from the regular declarations of nullity, because this “marriage” does not even look like a marriage, and it is known to be invalid.
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1ke
Guest
A marriage between two Catholics is valid when it meets all the requirements established in canon law for form and when there are no impediments.
A marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic is valid when it meets all the requirements established in canon law for form or receives a dispensation from it and there are no impediments. When the non-Catholic is unbaptized validity also requires a dispensation from disparity of cult.
A marriage between non-Catholics is valid when there are no divine law impediments and they marry under whatever requirements exist in civil law.
When both parties (Catholic or non-Catholic) are baptized the marriage is a sacrament. When one or both are unbaptized it is a natural marriage.
Contrary to what has been stated here, a Catholic attempting marriage outside Catholic form without permission is NOT in a valid marriage and may NOT receive the Sacraments until their marriage is convalidated. Can. 1060 states that marriage possesses the favor of law; therefore, in a case of doubt, the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven. In the case of lack of form, there is no doubt.
Yes.
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PaulinVA
Guest
David, I’m sorry, but I’m not buying it. Why would the Catholic Church consider a marriage valid when performed by a justice of the peace? What would the tribunal investigate? That marriage can’t be valid.
If the people in the invalid marriage above (married by the JP) go to their parish priest for advice, he will not direct them to the tribunal if they wish to make their marriage valid. He will assist them in getting their marriage convalidated, that is, made valid.
The Church does not presume a marriage contracted by a Catholic outside the Church to be valid. Period.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
I think this needs a bit of correction. A marriage by two non-Catholics who are BAPTIZED is considered a Sacramental marriage as well as a valid marriage. A marriage where one or both of the non-Catholic parties is not baptized is considered valid in the eyes of the Church, but not Sacramental–remember, that one has to be baptized before one can receive any of the other sacraments. The reason two baptized non-Catholics can be in a Sacramental marriage is because the couple administers the Sacrament to each other. I’m only addressing non-Catholics here, not Catholics or a non-Catholic-Catholic marriage.A marriage can be VALID without being Sacramental. Two different things. The Church uses the word “married” to denote the Sacrament of Marriage. It does not mean the union is not a legal, binding, civil “union” i.e., marriage.
Most marriages are actually VALID civil unions or in other terms a valid, legal, civil marriage. If they are not made in the Catholic Church or with dispensation, then they are not Sacramental. The exception to this would be if someone was previously married, etc etc etc.
For example, two Protestants marry. The Catholic Church assumes them to be in a valid, legal, civil marriage. They are not, however, in a Sacramental marriage because they are not part of the Catholic Church.
Two Catholics marry and choose not to marry in the church and do not get dispensation. They are also in a legal civil marriage that is valid, but it is not Sacramental because it was not done in the Church.
A Catholic and a non-Catholic marry without dispensation (my current situation). According to our priest, we are in a valid marriage or “valid civil union”. We will be bound in the Sacrament of Marriage after our Convalidation, which we are greatly looking forward to in the near future.
Hope this helps!
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joandarc2008
Guest
In the case of the baptized Catholic that is married by the JOP - those do still go to the Tribunal office in some diocese for a lack of form finding - it is a decree of nullity (after the divorce of course) based on lack of form. I know in the Archdiocese of Miami it takes about 3 weeks and $50. One of the main reasons that it is done is records keeping and to make sure that what is being presented by the couple wishing to be remarried is the truth.
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MindOverMatter2
Guest
Thank you everyone for answering. But I am confused. I thought that the only valid marriage was one conducted by the “Catholic Church” according to the rules of the “Catholic Faith” and the authority of its priests. Otherwise what would be the point of trying to decide whether a marriage is valid or not? If a marriage isn’t conducted with the authority of a Catholic priest, then why should I consider that marriage valid?
According to the words of everyone that has posted it would seem that a Mormon marriage and even a Jedi marriage is valid. Is a marriage conducted according to the rules of Scientology a marriage? Is a state marriage really a marriage? I have never understood them as such. But of course, I am not sure, and this is why I have posted. According to you anyone can conduct a marriage. The question i now have is what is a “valid marriage”; what is it that makes them married as opposed to two people entertaining the illusion of being married.
According to the words of everyone that has posted it would seem that a Mormon marriage and even a Jedi marriage is valid. Is a marriage conducted according to the rules of Scientology a marriage? Is a state marriage really a marriage? I have never understood them as such. But of course, I am not sure, and this is why I have posted. According to you anyone can conduct a marriage. The question i now have is what is a “valid marriage”; what is it that makes them married as opposed to two people entertaining the illusion of being married.
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