Only few enter Heaven?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cupcake143
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, if we take the Lord’s words at face value, as reiterated and interpreted by great saints and Doctors of the Church, few will be saved. Our wishful thinking, while understandable, is not, in my view, worth as much as the witness of Scripture and these great saints and Doctors.

And yet, even the relative “few” who are saved will be in one way of looking at it, “many”, given the long history of the world. As this snippet, recently heard on the feast of Christ the King, from the book of the Apocalypse states:
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
 
Citation please. Universal salvation is proximate to heresy.

While the opinions of the saints and Church Doctors cited are not binding, it is temerarious to simply shrug them off as one opinion among many.

Our Lord said “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

Thus “few” will be saved, while “many” will be damned; the clear sense of this passage is that more will be damned than saved. Salvation is not easy, but is only achieved by grace and walking the narrow path. I don’t see many walking the narrow path, including myself, which fills me with fear of the judgment of our most just Judge.
What does the narrow path look like to you?

This post tempts me to despair. Why even try, I’m not going to make it anyway. Everything I try to do could be sin. Does the fact that I was raised atheist predestine me as someone headed for damnation?
 
The Dr. Ralph Martin this article refers to was one of my professors when I was in the diaconate.

He has a great book on Vatican II’s teachings in regard to this particular verse.

amazon.com/Will-Many-Saved-Ralph-Martin-ebook/dp/B00CA6CMO4/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418162387&sr=1-4&keywords=ralph+martin
 
Citation please. Universal salvation is proximate to heresy.
Two such saints are noted in the link I posted above:catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=2383

They are St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Maximus the Confessor. I am reasonably sure their views were not heretical at the time, but would certainly require refining or outright denial by today’s standards.
While the opinions of the saints and Church Doctors cited are not binding, it is temerarious to simply shrug them off as one opinion among many.
So too then, we must hold in high esteem the opinions of other saints - such as Saint John Paul II - who held strong hope for universal salvation. A hope that is absurd if it is certain that only few are saved.
Our Lord said “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

Thus “few” will be saved, while “many” will be damned; the clear sense of this passage is that more will be damned than saved. Salvation is not easy, but is only achieved by grace and walking the narrow path. I don’t see many walking the narrow path, including myself, which fills me with fear of the judgment of our most just Judge.
As discussed above, the meaning is not at all clear. I and others have offered alternative understandings.

But it is sufficient to say that the Church does not choose to interpret this passage the way you do, nor to hold the faithful to any particular understanding of it.

I have said enough in this thread. I will finish off by quoting back the very words of St. Leonard of Port Maurice, who was introduced ealier as an strong proponent of the view that few are saved. I think people should re-read his sermon, because that simply was not his point.

From the final conclusions of this sermon:
So if you ask me my sentiment on the number of those who are saved, here it is: Whether there are many or few that are saved, I say that whoever wants to be saved, will be saved; and that no one can be damned if he does not want to be.
What is the use of knowing whether few or many are saved?
 
Few are saved according to this Scripture passage and according to the Doctors of the Church and several Saints. God bless you.
 
Few are saved according to this Scripture passage and according to the Doctors of the Church and several Saints. God bless you.
And yet, according to the witness of the passage of Sacred Scripture quoted above, there is an innumerable multitude. Go figure.
 
And yet, according to the witness of the passage of Sacred Scripture quoted above, there is an innumerable multitude. Go figure.
True! Few enter Heaven compared to all the people ever created, but many are in Heaven!
 
It’s still an innumerable multitude. That’s not a few.
I did not say or mean that there are only a small number souls in Heaven, for the Bible does not say this. I say and mean that few souls of the incredibly great multitude of souls ever created get to enter into Heaven, but the number of souls who do get to enter into Heaven is still not small. There is no contradiction here, sorry if you can’t see this. God bless you.
 
Two such saints are noted in the link I posted above:catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=2383

They are St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Maximus the Confessor. I am reasonably sure their views were not heretical at the time, but would certainly require refining or outright denial by today’s standards.

So too then, we must hold in high esteem the opinions of other saints - such as Saint John Paul II - who held strong hope for universal salvation. A hope that is absurd if it is certain that only few are saved.

As discussed above, the meaning is not at all clear. I and others have offered alternative understandings.

But it is sufficient to say that the Church does not choose to interpret this passage the way you do, nor to hold the faithful to any particular understanding of it.

I have said enough in this thread. I will finish off by quoting back the very words of St. Leonard of Port Maurice, who was introduced ealier as an strong proponent of the view that few are saved. I think people should re-read his sermon, because that simply was not his point.

From the final conclusions of this sermon:
He said if you want to be saved, you will be. Unfortunately, not many want to be saved enough. I don’t think Pope John Paul II believed in universal salvation, nor the other saints you mentioned above. Can you give us proof?
 
Reminds me of Michelangelo’s Last Judgment. The Book of Life is thin flyer, while the Book of the Damned is as fat as a phone book.
 
He said if you want to be saved, you will be. Unfortunately, not many want to be saved enough. I don’t think Pope John Paul II believed in universal salvation, nor the other saints you mentioned above. Can you give us proof?
I have not said St. John Paul II *believed *in universal salvation. I said he *hoped *for it (and perhaps he believed it to be possible).

As for the other two saints I noted above, you can explore their opinions for yourself. I did not join this thread to debate universal salvation.

I merely came to note that the Church does not hold any particular position on whether few or many are saved. Nor does she bind the faithful to any position on this. Faithful Catholics may hope for the salvation of many, as St. John Paul II did and for which he prayed earnestly.

That is all. My position is easily refuted by any official Church document clearly stating otherwise, but I know (with as much certainty as possible) that none exists.
 
If one adheres to the infallible doctrines taught by the Council of Florence and the Council of Trent that no Non-Catholics are saved, there is no issue with this scriptural passage. Catholics are a minority of the world’s population, so it is only logical that the majority do not enter heaven.

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”
 
If one adheres to the infallible doctrines taught by the Council of Florence and the Council of Trent that no Non-Catholics are saved, there is no issue with this scriptural passage. Catholics are a minority of the world’s population, so it is only logical that the majority do not enter heaven.

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”
The issue of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” (outside the Church there is no salvation) has been exhaustively clarified since this and other documents which would *seem *to paint a fairly black-and-white picture. All people are saved through the Church, and this is possible without formal membership of it.

St. John Paul II’s encyclical REDEMPTORIS MISSIO address this directly:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_07121990_redemptoris-missio_en.html
Salvation in Christ Is Offered to All
  1. The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.
For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that “this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God.”
 
John Paul II was clearly denying EENS here. A “clarification” does not entail a denial of the dogma. The only two “exceptions” (if you can call them that) to EENS are BoB and BoD, but these do not grant salvation to non-Catholics. Furthermore, the Tridentine Creed, ratified by the Council of Trent, concludes with “this Catholic faith, outside of which nobody can be saved”. No further clarification is needed here. It’s quite clear.
 
John Paul II was clearly denying EENS here. A “clarification” does not entail a denial of the dogma. The only two “exceptions” (if you can call them that) to EENS are BoB and BoD, but these do not grant salvation to non-Catholics. Furthermore, the Tridentine Creed, ratified by the Council of Trent, concludes with “this Catholic faith, outside of which nobody can be saved”. No further clarification is needed here. It’s quite clear.
From the Catechism, regarding Baptism of Desire:
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
 
From the Catechism, regarding Baptism of Desire:
As that Catechism was written by John Paul II himself, I doubt it will be of much value in determining whether or not JPII was mistaken, to put it kindly.

I present to you the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church, as professed for centuries. Do you deny this?

Fourth Lateran Council (1215): “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.”

Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): “We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: ‘One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her’ (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, ‘one Lord, one faith, one baptism’ (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”
 
Pope Boniface I, Epistle 14.1: “It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to its fellowship.”

Pope Pelagius II (578-590): “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord… Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness… Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned… [If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church” (Denzinger, 469).

Saint Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.”

Pope Sylvester II, Profession of Faith, June AD 991: “I believe that in Baptism all sins are forgiven, that one which was committed originally as much as those which are voluntarily committed, and I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved.”

Pope Innocent III (1198–1216), Profession of Faith prescribed for the Waldensians: “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved” (Denzinger 792).

Pope Clement VI, Letter Super Quibusdam (to Consolator the Catholicos of Armenia), September 20, 1351: “In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside of the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved… In the ninth place, if you have believed and do believe that all who have raised themselves against the faith of the Roman Church and have died in final impenitence have been damned and have descended to the eternal punishments of hell.”

Pope Leo XII (1823–1829), Encyclical Ubi Primum: “It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members. For we have a surer word of the prophet, and in writing to you We speak wisdom among the perfect; not the wisdom of this world but the wisdom of God in a mystery. By it we are taught, and by divine faith we hold, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and that no other name under heaven is given to men except the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in which we must be saved. This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church… For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: ‘If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’”

Pope Gregory XVI (1831–1846), Encyclical Summo Jugiter Studio (on mixed marriages), 5-6, May 27, 1832: “You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that very article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation. The words of that celebrated disciple of the Apostles, martyred Saint Ignatius, in his letter to the Philadelphians are relevant to this matter: ‘Be not deceived, my brother; if anyone follows a schismatic, he will not attain the inheritance of the kingdom of God.’ Moreover, Saint Augustine and the other African bishops who met in the Council of Cirta in the year 412 explained the same thing at greater length: ‘Whoever has separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how laudably he lives, will not have eternal life, but has earned the anger of God because of this one crime: that he abandoned his union with Christ’ (Epsitle 141). Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise Saint Gregory the Great, who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: ‘The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved’ (Moral. in Job, 16.5). Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of the Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal Church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved.’ Finally, the same dogma is expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use (Creed of the Council of Trent), but also that which the Greek Orthodox Church uses (cf. Gregory XIII, Profession ‘Sanctissimus’) and that which other Eastern Catholics use (cf. Benedict XIV, Profession ‘Nuper ad Nos’)… We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies.”
 
Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Allocution Singulari Quadem, December 9, 1854: "Not without sorrow we have learned that another error, no less destructive, has taken possession of some parts of the Catholic world, and has taken up its abode in the souls of many Catholics who think that one should have good hope of the eternal salvation of all those who have never lived in the true Church of Christ. Therefore, they are wont to ask very often what will be the lot and condition of those who have not submitted in any way to the Catholic faith, and, by bringing forward most vain reasons, they make a response favorable to their false opinion. Far be it from Us, Venerable Brethren, to presume on the limits of the divine mercy which is infinite; far from Us, to wish to scrutinize the hidden counsel and “judgements of God” which are “a great abyss” (Ps. 35.7) and cannot be penetrated by human thought. But, as is Our Apostolic Duty, we wish your episcopal solicitude and vigilance to be aroused, so that you will strive as much as you can to drive form the mind of men that impious and equally fatal opinion, namely, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion whatsoever. May you demonstrate with skill and learning in which you excel, to the people entrusted to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no wise opposed to divine mercy and justice.
"For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God. Now, in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For, in truth, when released from these corporeal chains ‘we shall see God as He is’ (1 John 3.2), we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is “one God, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4.5); it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry.
“But, just as the way of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ; and let us be devoted to the common salvation of men in proportion to our strength, ‘for the hand of the Lord is not shortened’ (Isa. 9.1) and the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting to those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light.”[6]

Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “Teach that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and come to the community of His children (Romans 1; Hebrews 11; Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 8). There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord (St. Cyprian, Epistle 43), outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church (ibid, On the Unity of the Catholic Church). … Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control.”[7]
 
Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863: “And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin. But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well-known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom ‘the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior,’ (Council of Chalcedon, Letter to Pope Leo I) cannot obtain eternal salvation. The words of Christ are clear enough: ‘And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican’ (Matthew 18:17); ‘He that heareth you, heareth Me; and he that dispeth you, despiseth Me; and he that dispiseth Me, despiseth Him that sent Me’ (Luke 10:16); ‘He that believeth not shall be condemned’ (Mark 16:16); ‘He that doth not believe, is already judged’ (John 3:18); ‘He that is not with Me, is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me, scattereth’ (Luke 11:23). The Apostle Paul says that such persons are ‘perverted and self-condemned’ (Titus 3:11); the Prince of the Apostles calls the ‘false prophets… who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction’ (2 Peter 2:1).”[8]

Pope Pius IX The Syllabus of Errors, attached to Encyclical Quanta Cura, 1864: [The following are prescribed errors:] "16. Men can, in the cult of any religion, find the way of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation. - Encyclical Qui pluribus, November 9, 1846.
“17. One ought to at least have good hope for the eternal salvation of all those who in no way dwell in the true Church of Christ. - Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863, etc.”

Pope Leo XIII (1878–1903), Encyclical Annum Ingressi Sumus: “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.”

idem, Encyclical Sapientiae Christianae: “He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God.”

Pope St. Pius X (1903–1914), Encyclical Jucunda Sane: “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.”

Pope Benedict XV (1914–1922), Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum: “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

Pope Pius XI (1922–1939), Encyclical Mortalium Animos: “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation… Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.”

Pope Pius XII (1939–1958), Encyclical Humani Generis, August 12, 1950: “Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation.”

Pope Pius XII (1939–1958), Allocution to the Gregorian University (17 October 1953): “By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top