Only few enter Heaven?

[aTraditionalist]

1ke:

There are many discourses on the “two ways” highlighting the way to life and the way to death. This is one example.

No, it is not interpreted literally.

How is this not literal? Our Lord seems pretty clear and the Doctrine of the Few has upheld this for centuries.

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[JoeFreedom]

Yes, very few are saved. I suggest reading this sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice:olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

And I will back up my statement with numerous quotes of saints confirming this idea:

‘Our chronicles relate an even more dreadful happening. One of our brothers, well-known for his doctrine and holiness, was preaching in Germany. He represented the ugliness of the sin of impurity so forceful that a woman fell dead of sorrow in front of everyone. Then, coming back to life, she said, "When I was presented before the Tribunal of God, sixty thousand people arrived at the same time from all parts of the world; out of that number, three were saved by going to Purgatory, and all the rest were damned.’
-St. Leonard of Port Maurice

Also, I some of the quotes I accidentally didn’t post who said them. All the quotes are found here:saintsquotes.net/Selection%20-%20Fewness.html

Wow, that statement above is simply astounding. Absolutely incredible. I believe it to my soul, that many will choose an eternity in hell. What is even scarier, is to know that I am not even close of being worthy, and that my sin should place me in the lake of fire, but thanks to the grace of God, I can be saved. Although even with my faith, my confessions, my prayers, my beliefs, my acceptance of Jesus as My Savior, I still wonder, worry…

 

[JoeFreedom]

Citation please. Universal salvation is proximate to heresy.

While the opinions of the saints and Church Doctors cited are not binding, it is temerarious to simply shrug them off as one opinion among many.

Our Lord said “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

Thus “few” will be saved, while “many” will be damned; the clear sense of this passage is that more will be damned than saved. Salvation is not easy, but is only achieved by grace and walking the narrow path. I don’t see many walking the narrow path, including myself, which fills me with fear of the judgment of our most just Judge.

Corhaesito. I find myself with the same great fear. I find myself struggling with my sins, asking forgiveness, finding myself in the same state of sin, realizing my unworthiness. I find myself not devoting myself 100% to Jesus and making the rationalization that I am human, an imperfect being with fallibility. I struggle with that, knowing that I could do everything possible to not sin, because I have free will, but knowing that is impossible at the same time, since I am filled with original sin and cannot be without sin, lest I be Jesus. I find myself in the sin of omission often, by not evangalizing like I should, etc.

I will pray for your soul as I hope you can include mine in your prayers.

God bless.

 

[backtocatholic]

Hi guys

It is impossible to know the answer to this question.
The most sensible post on this thread is in relation to St. Faustina and the Divine Mercy devotion. I suffer from scruples and often worry about myself and also about others who are away from the faith. I am reading St. Faustina’s diary at the moment and the message is infinitely positive. The more we trust in the Divine Mercy the more mercy will be shown to us. What is truly amazing is that we can also pray not only for ourselves but also for the conversion of sinners. Jesus wants us to pray and make sacrifices for the conversion of sinners.

This message was given to St. Faustina as a true message of hope. The one practical thing we can to is to pray the Chaplet.

 

[AsceticHermit]

We do know the answer because Jesus told us so and so have His Saints. He said few would find the doorway to salvation. There are several verses where Jesus speaks explicitly about the reality of hell and how few make it through the narrow gate. To trivialize this is dangerous business. The entire tradition of Catholicism interprets these Scripture verses literally.

Here are a just a few quotations from the great Saints of our Church.

‘If you would be quite sure of your salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few. Do not follow the majority of mankind, but follow those who renounce the world and never relax their efforts day or night so that they may attain everlasting blessedness.’ St Anselm Doctor of the Church.

‘Not all, nor even a majority, are saved. . . They are indeed many, if regarded by themselves, but they are few in comparison with the far larger number of those who shall be punished with the devil.’ St. Augustine Doctor of the Church

‘We owe God a deep regret of gratitude for the purely gratuitous gift of the true faith with which he has favored us. How many are the infidels, heretics and schismatic who do not enjoy comparable happiness? The earth is full of them and they are all lost!’ St Alphonsus Liguori Doctor of the Church

‘What do you think? How many of the inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to tell you is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!’ St John Chrysostom Doctor of the Church

I could go on and on, but Jesus and these four Doctors of the Church speak the truth of the matter.

 

[ready]

We do know the answer because Jesus told us so and so have His Saints. He said few would find the doorway to salvation. There are several verses where Jesus speaks explicitly about the reality of hell and how few make it through the narrow gate. To trivialize this is dangerous business. The entire tradition of Catholicism interprets these Scripture verses literally.

Here are a just a few quotations from the great Saints of our Church.

‘If you would be quite sure of your salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few. Do not follow the majority of mankind, but follow those who renounce the world and never relax their efforts day or night so that they may attain everlasting blessedness.’ St Anselm Doctor of the Church.

‘Not all, nor even a majority, are saved. . . They are indeed many, if regarded by themselves, but they are few in comparison with the far larger number of those who shall be punished with the devil.’ St. Augustine Doctor of the Church

‘We owe God a deep regret of gratitude for the purely gratuitous gift of the true faith with which he has favored us. How many are the infidels, heretics and schismatic who do not enjoy comparable happiness? The earth is full of them and they are all lost!’ St Alphonsus Liguori Doctor of the Church

‘What do you think? How many of the inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to tell you is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!’ St John Chrysostom Doctor of the Church

I could go on and on, but Jesus and these four Doctors of the Church speak the truth of the matter.

Yes, I know of over a hundred quotes of the Saints which say the same thing: that few will be saved. But when will people listen and believe and do penance? When it is too late and they are dead and before Jesus our Judge? God bless you.

 

[backtocatholic]

I believe that until we die and understand what goodness really is we can never understand the enorminity of our sins.

Jesus gave the Divine Mercy devotion to St. Faustina as a last hope for sinners and that those who recite the chaplet even once will be shown great mercy.

He said that even hardened sinners should not be afraid as they will receive great mercy if we trust in him. The more we trust in him the more mercy we shall receive. In the devotion it is clear that Jesus wants us to understand and appreciate his sacrifice and also to trust in his mercy.

Jesus has also said that he wishes for us to pray the Chaplet and make sacrifices for the conversion of sinners.

This truly gives us a more positive outlook. It is necessary to repent and confess our sins but also to trust in his mercy.

 

[ready]

Yes, I know of over a hundred quotes of the Saints which say the same thing: that few will be saved. But when will people listen and believe and do penance? When it is too late and they are dead and before Jesus our Judge? God bless you.

 

[Sirach2]

Yes, very few are saved. I suggest reading this sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice:olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

For any who have the misfortune to read this nonsense, this sermon has been debunked many times on CAF as pure hear-say.

The following narrative from Saint Vincent Ferrer will show you what you may think about it. He relates that an archdeacon in Lyons gave up his charge and retreated into a desert place to do penance, and that he died the same day and hour as Saint Bernard. After his death, he appeared to his bishop and said to him, “*Know, Monsignor, that at the very hour I passed away, **thirty-three thousand ***people also died. Out of this number, **Bernard and myself **went up to heaven without delay, **three **went to purgatory, and all the others fell into Hell.”

Note that St. Leonard is repeating a story from St. Vincent, who speaks about a deacon who claims that he had a vision from St. Bernard who appeared to him. All of this is unsubstantiated, and the Church has never given any credence to this private vision as being authentic. Seems that St. Leonard and St. Vincent did not exercise prudence in their discernment of spirits.

In addition, OLRL’s website where the story originated, is rated “red-danger” by Catholic Culture. So please folks, consider the source and dismiss it as hooey.

I am very concerned that Theoda, a teenager, is dogmatically teaching these errors publicly to those who may innocently adopt them and be gravely misinformed about our Church’s teachings.

 

[Sirach2]

In addition, OLRL’s website where the story originated, is rated “red-danger” by Catholic Culture. So please folks, consider the source and dismiss it as hooey.

Correcting a bad link in my previous post. Kindly note, if you refer to this review, you’ll find this example of the website’s weakness, which is exactly what our young poster ascribes to.

“Some of the explanations of Catholic doctrine are incomplete or misleading.”

An example of this is the article on the teaching that there is no salvation outside the Church. The author uses quotes from Church documents and the Saints to reiterate the Church’s assertion that outside of Her there can be no salvation. Unfortunately, he leaves it at that. There is no mention of the fact that the Church does not deny the possibility of salvation of those earnest and sincere persons outside Her fold who live and die in invincible ignorance of the true faith.

I would hope that our youngster exercises a bit of humility and much further study on this topic, according to the existing teaching of the Church, rather than attempt to interpret older encyclicals privately (or rather, in accord with what he reads on these spurious websites.).

 

[recentrevert]

For any who have the misfortune to read this nonsense, this sermon has been debunked many times on CAF as pure hear-say.

Note that St. Leonard is repeating a story from St. Vincent, who speaks about a deacon who claims that he had a vision from St. Bernard who appeared to him. All of this is unsubstantiated, and the Church has never given any credence to this private vision as being authentic. Seems that St. Leonard and St. Vincent did not exercise prudence in their discernment of spirits.

In addition, OLRL’s website where the story originated, is rated “red-danger” by Catholic Culture. So please folks, consider the source and dismiss it as hooey.

I am very concerned that Theoda, a teenager, is dogmatically teaching these errors publicly to those who may innocently adopt them and be gravely misinformed about our Church’s teachings.

Are you really saying that St. Leonard’s sermon is ‘nonsense’, and that it has been ‘debunked’? I would say that even if you are confident in disagreeing with this saint, and most others, your tone is disrespectful. St. Leonard (and many other learned saints) have convinced me. Or have I misunderstood, and are you saying that St. Leonard did not write this sermon?

 

[theoda]

We do know the answer because Jesus told us so and so have His Saints. He said few would find the doorway to salvation. There are several verses where Jesus speaks explicitly about the reality of hell and how few make it through the narrow gate. To trivialize this is dangerous business. The entire tradition of Catholicism interprets these Scripture verses literally.

Here are a just a few quotations from the great Saints of our Church.

‘If you would be quite sure of your salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few. Do not follow the majority of mankind, but follow those who renounce the world and never relax their efforts day or night so that they may attain everlasting blessedness.’ St Anselm Doctor of the Church.

‘Not all, nor even a majority, are saved. . . They are indeed many, if regarded by themselves, but they are few in comparison with the far larger number of those who shall be punished with the devil.’ St. Augustine Doctor of the Church

‘We owe God a deep regret of gratitude for the purely gratuitous gift of the true faith with which he has favored us. How many are the infidels, heretics and schismatic who do not enjoy comparable happiness? The earth is full of them and they are all lost!’ St Alphonsus Liguori Doctor of the Church

‘What do you think? How many of the inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to tell you is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!’ St John Chrysostom Doctor of the Church

I could go on and on, but Jesus and these four Doctors of the Church speak the truth of the matter.

Agree. Plus, many saints have reported miracles which testify that few are saved. If you don’t think few are saved, you’d have to reject those miracles as well.

 

[theoda]

For any who have the misfortune to read this nonsense, this sermon has been debunked many times on CAF as pure hear-say.

Note that St. Leonard is repeating a story from St. Vincent, who speaks about a deacon who claims that he had a vision from St. Bernard who appeared to him. All of this is unsubstantiated, and the Church has never given any credence to this private vision as being authentic. Seems that St. Leonard and St. Vincent did not exercise prudence in their discernment of spirits.

In addition, OLRL’s website where the story originated, is rated “red-danger” by Catholic Culture. So please folks, consider the source and dismiss it as hooey.

I am very concerned that Theoda, a teenager, is dogmatically teaching these errors publicly to those who may innocently adopt them and be gravely misinformed about our Church’s teachings.

Ok even if you’d don’t believe the private vision, what makes the rest of the sermon nonsense? It was one of documents that they reviewed for his canonization and they found nothing wrong with it.

All he is saying is that few are saved. Is that a dogmatic error? I could find many more quotes by saints if you want me to that agree with him that few are saved.

 

[recentrevert]

Agree. Plus, many saints have reported miracles which testify that few are saved. If you don’t think few are saved, you’d have to reject those miracles as well.

Does anyone know of a single saint who not only believed that it was possible that a majority were saved, but actually believed that they were? Let us stick with the saints, and we will not go wrong.

 

[backtocatholic]

I don’t think an internet forum is an appropriate place for this discussion as NONE of us have the proper knowledge to be educating others. I would suggest that the appropriate forum for this discussion would be with a trusted priest who has knowledge and training in this area.

Also I think that we should all (myself included) be concentrating on the things that we are certain of i.e. prayer, loving God and loving others.

I am guilty of this as much as anyone as due to scrupolosity I tend to be looking for mathematical certainty of salvation. This is not possible.

I am developing great faith in the Divine Mercy which is a relatively recent devotion and suitable for our time.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Does anyone know of a single saint who not only believed that it was possible that a majority were saved, but actually believed that they were? Let us stick with the saints, and we will not go wrong.

The teaching of the Catholic Church is found in the Sacred Deposit of Faith: Tradition and Scripture, as interpreted and taught by the Magisterium. The opinions of Saints, per se, does not equate to Tradition. The Magisterium decides which teachings of Saints are a correct understanding of Tradition and which are not. And the same is true for Scripture.

There is no definitive magisterial teaching asserting that, in the literal sense, few are save and most persons go to Hell. The recent teachings of the Magisterium tend toward the opposite conclusion, that many are saved, even among persons formally outside the Church.

Pope **Saint **John Paul II:

“the followers of other religions can receive God’s grace and be saved by Christ apart from the ordinary means which he has established”

“The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all.”

For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that “this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God.”

above quotes are from the encyclical Redemptoris Missio.

“salvation is accessible in mysterious ways, inasmuch as divine grace is granted to them by virtue of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, without external membership in the Church, but nonetheless always in relation to her (cf. RM 10). It is a mysterious relationship. It is mysterious for those who receive the grace, because they do not know the Church and sometimes even outwardly reject her.”
[Pope John Paul II, All Salvation Comes through Christ, General Audience, May 31, 1995]

The words of a Saint who is also a Pope, who is teaching under the Magisterium, takes precedence over any number of mere opinions by other Saints.

 

[Sirach2]

Are you really saying that St. Leonard’s sermon is ‘nonsense’, and that it has been ‘debunked’? I would say that even if you are confident in disagreeing with this saint, and most others, your tone is disrespectful. St. Leonard (and many other learned saints) have convinced me. Or have I misunderstood, and are you saying that St. Leonard did not write this sermon?

He no doubt wrote the sermon, but it is not the present teaching of our Church, but one person’s opinion, due to the formation he embraced from his time. I do not disrespect this saint – only those who misuse his words to put forth their own misguided understanding of doctrine. The part I challenged is merely a repeated and unauthenticated private vision that neither saint had the prudence to investigate before repeating it.

There are plenty of quotes in circulation by saints, who likewise had their own opinions, and which do not become Catholic dogma simply because they were named a saint later. They are not infallible. These writings must be examined in the light of Catholic teachings … NOW.

There are also misunderstandings concerning older papal documents that were formulated for a specific purpose during centuries prior to the Protestant Reformation, during which all were either Catholic, Jewish, or pagan. - not multiple denominations as exist today. These writings must be interpreted according to the Mind of the Church and the purpose they were addressed in that era, not according to one’s literal private understanding.

Does anyone know of a single saint who not only believed that it was possible that a majority were saved, but actually believed that they were? Let us stick with the saints, and we will not go wrong.

We are not speaking about belief in a “majority” but rather the fact that some believe that the number is so small that hardly anyone can be saved. Big difference, yes?

 

[backtocatholic]

I’ve just looked on the “ask an apologist” section and this question was answered by a priest a few days ago and gives a more positive and realistic outlook.

 

[Sirach2]

This may be helpful for those who have difficulty understanding papal documents.

Originally Posted by JReducation

1. If all Catholics believed something to be doctrinally true at a time and was taught in the church, can it be claimed later to be wrong?

Yes, if the belief is incorrect. There are many things that people believe to be doctrine that are disciplines, theological statements, or commentaries on a doctrine. Often, people think that everything that a pope writes or a council writes is a doctrine or that everything that is in an encyclical is infallible. Very often, these writings are about an infallible belief, but what is being said about the belief can be a development of the thought, not necessarily another infallible statement. …] However, these explanations cannot contract the doctrine. They can simply be insufficient or unclear.

You may want to read the works of St. Boniface. He speaks very clearly on the authority of the pope over councils, even those of the past and over previous popes. To paraphrase him, no pope is bound by any decree of any council or any previous pope unless that which is decreed is explicitly contained in divine revelation.

No pope is bound by any doctor of the church, any saint or any miracle or a private apparition. All revelation comes from Christ. All law comes from Christ and it is written in the heart of the pope. That’s it in a nutshell. It’s a very long statement, which you may be able to find online.

Source

 

[theoda]

The teaching of the Catholic Church is found in the Sacred Deposit of Faith: Tradition and Scripture, as interpreted and taught by the Magisterium. The opinions of Saints, per se, does not equate to Tradition. The Magisterium decides which teachings of Saints are a correct understanding of Tradition and which are not. And the same is true for Scripture.

There is no definitive magisterial teaching asserting that, in the literal sense, few are save and most persons go to Hell. The recent teachings of the Magisterium tend toward the opposite conclusion, that many are saved, even among persons formally outside the Church.

Pope **Saint **John Paul II:

“the followers of other religions can receive God’s grace and be saved by Christ apart from the ordinary means which he has established”

“The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all.”

For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that “this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God.”

above quotes are from the encyclical Redemptoris Missio.

“salvation is accessible in mysterious ways, inasmuch as divine grace is granted to them by virtue of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, without external membership in the Church, but nonetheless always in relation to her (cf. RM 10). It is a mysterious relationship. It is mysterious for those who receive the grace, because they do not know the Church and sometimes even outwardly reject her.”
[Pope John Paul II, All Salvation Comes through Christ, General Audience, May 31, 1995]

The words of a Saint who is also a Pope, who is teaching under the Magisterium, takes precedence over any number of mere opinions by other Saints.

Where did he ever say that a greater/fewer number are saved? He just said that the chance of salvation is offered to all.

I’ll take a quote from a pope and a saint, and doctor of the church.

‘The more the wicked abound, so much the more must we suffer with them in patience; for on the threshing floor few are the grains carried into the barns, but high are the piles of chaff burned with fire.’
Pope St. Gregory the Great, Doctor and Father of the Church