Only few enter Heaven?

[theoda]

Why would Christ come to Earth and die on the cross to only save a few? I could never understand this.

God wants all to be saved. But most deliberately reject him. However, because iof God’s infinite mercy and love, he will save the few.

Why did God save Lot? He was the only just person in an entire city.

Why did God save he world by instructing Noah to build an ark?

Because of his infinite mercy, he won’t let the just be damned.

 

[Sirach2]

For what it’s worth…

JReducation:

I think the problem that you’re finding in Traddom is one that you will also find at the other end of the spectrum. People at the ends, left or right, tend to be dogmatic. They have a tendency to assume an air of authority that has never been bestowed on them. When they do so, they come across as condescending, rigid, uncompromising, and sour.
Source.

And Pope Francis had this to say in Evangelii Gaudium:

1. Consequently, an evangelizer must never look like someone who has just come back from a funeral! Let us recover and deepen our enthusiasm, that “delightful and comforting joy of evangelizing, even when it is in tears that we must sow… And may the world of our time, which is searching, sometimes with anguish, sometimes with hope, be enabled to receive the good news not from evangelizers who are dejected, discouraged, impatient or anxious, but from ministers of the Gospel whose lives glow with fervour, who have first received the joy of Christ.”

If anyone believes the way to evangelize effectively is to scare the beejeebies out of a person with the threat of going to hell, then it shouldn’t surprise them that nobody listens.

 

[recentrevert]

For what it’s worth…

Do you believe that God has withheld the graces of wisdom and understanding from the majority (entirety?) of His saints and bestowed them only upon modern theologians? Prudence demands, surely, that if a teaching is not to found in the Magisterium (Your Magisterial quotations do not contradict this opinion), but the vast majority of the doctors and fathers of the Church hold it, that we also ought to hold it. It is imprudent to avoid only heresy, we should also avoid novelties and irrationalities.

 

[recentrevert]

I don’t think that any of them are false, and yes, they are held by the Church’s most well-respected theologians and the Church has not declared any of them to be false. I won’t bother with any of the posters on this thread who refuse to listen to them … these posters who refuse to listen really are just hurting themselves, and in the end they will learn the truth. They will have no influence over me whatsoever; only the Saints, the Church Fathers, and the Doctors of the Church will influence me. God bless you.

God bless you. I wish people would realise that after the Magisterium itself, which must be interpreted in accordance with previous Magisterial teachings, our greatest teachers are the saints, particularly those the Church names as Doctors and Fathers. The works of the saints ought to be read in a spirit of docile humility. St. John Vianney is much more likely to be right about a matter of faith or morals than my parish priest. St Alphonsus and the many other saintly bishops are much more likely to right about a matter of faith and morals than my bishop.

 

[backtocatholic]

I’m not sure why this theological debate is continuing. Regardless of how many are saved we should be trying to live our lives in the best way we can. The church has told us that you cannot be saved if you die in mortal sin. I am still trying to understand the concept of mortal sin as due to scropolosity I have a distorted view of sin and I am have been getting advice from priests. I have been told that it is possible to stay completely out of mortal sin. If this is the case and I know of many committed Christians who are not in mortal sin and living good lives this seems to contradict the fact that virtually nobody is saved.
We all commit venial sins every day but the catholic church teaches us that while we should strive to be free of venial sin we will still be saved. I know that only God knows the state of our souls.

I think the issues we should be concerned about (and I have a lot of improvements to make in this area) are love if God, love of neighbour, prayer, evangelization etc but with few exceptions I see very little mention of these issues on this forum. Surely this is what our faith is about?

 

[Sirach2]

Do you believe that God has withheld the graces of wisdom and understanding from the majority (entirety?) of His saints and bestowed them only upon modern theologians? Prudence demands, surely, that if a teaching is not to found in the Magisterium (Your Magisterial quotations do not contradict this opinion), but the vast majority of the doctors and fathers of the Church hold it, that we also ought to hold it. It is imprudent to avoid only heresy, we should also avoid novelties and irrationalities.

Let’s take the example from Ready’s list of saints. View #3, alleging that St. John of the Cross, Doctor of the Church, warned about hell. I am a Carmelite dedicated to study of the writings of this Order’s three Doctors. In all 706 pages of his “Collected Works,” there is only this one single sentence (#72) in the “[Minor Works](http://www.jesus-passion.com/Minor_Works_StJohn.htm#SAYINGS OF LIGHT AND LOVE)” out of the entire magnitude of his words. The one who repeats these quotations from saints has diligently looked for a needle in a huge haystack consisting of the most edifying and beautiful writings, in order to emphasize this insidious agenda, extremely out of context to the whole teaching of the particular saint.

I have read many, many writings of Doctors of the Church who have written magnificent beauty for our benefit, and it is a drop of water in an ocean to try to find excerpts on hell. How sick is the mentality of anyone that attempts to bring a soul to Christ by using threats of hell. Pope Pius XII and others specifically denounced any attempt to convert a soul using this deplorable means. See Mystici Corporis, #104.
Though We desire this unceasing prayer to rise to God from the whole Mystical Body in common, that all the straying sheep may hasten to enter the one fold of Jesus Christ, yet We recognize that this must be done of their own free will; for no one believes unless he wills to believe. Hence they are most certainly not genuine Christians who against their belief are forced to go into a church, to approach the altar and to receive the Sacraments; for the “faith without which it is impossible to please God” is an entirely free “submission of intellect and will.” Therefore, whenever it happens, despite the constant teaching of this Apostolic See, that anyone is compelled to embrace the Catholic faith against his will, Our sense of duty demands that We condemn the act. For men must be effectively drawn to the truth by the Father of light through the spirit of His beloved Son, because, endowed as they are with free will, they can misuse their freedom under the impulse of mental agitation and base desires.
Another saint mentioned was Alphonsus Liguori. Again, one little needle among the ocean of beauty was pulled out of context. Read his true sentiments:
Further, in chapter 6 [he quotes the Council of Trent here] it says that sinners are put in a fit state to receive justification by hope in God through the merits of Jesus Christ: “They are raised to hope, trusting that God will be merciful to them through Christ.” [Sess. 6, c. 6] Now, if Jesus Christ had not applied to all the merits of His Passion, then, since no one [without a special revelation] could be certain of being among the number of those to whom the Redeemer had willed to apply the fruit of His merits, no sinner could entertain such hope, not having the certain and secure foundation which is necessary for hope; namely, that God wills all men to be saved, and will pardon all sinners prepared for it by the merits of Jesus Christ.
You may want to read some of these saints’ writings, and I’ll bet the farm that you will not find such sentiments, other than an isolated comment taken out of context to the whole of their words… Check them out.

In the end, you must remember that the Church has the authentic interpretation and teaching, and no saint or Doctor of the Church is above the Magisterium.

 

[Sirach2]

I am no longer subscribing to this discussion, just so you know not to pose any further questions to me.

 

[agnes_therese]

It’s interesting that most (all?) of the people who are so insistent that only a very few will be saved, seem pretty certain that they are among those few.

:twocents:

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

It’s interesting that most (all?) of the people who are so insistent that only a very few will be saved, seem pretty certain that they are among those few.

:twocents:

Indeed.
I would rather see 100 ppl go to heaven and burn myself than vice versa…

 

[theoda]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

It’s interesting that most (all?) of the people who are so insistent that only a very few will be saved, seem pretty certain that they are among those few.

:twocents:

Why would you assume something you couldn’t possibly know?

When did any of us say that we are certain to go to heaven?

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Why would you assume something you couldn’t possibly know?

When did any of us say that we are certain to go to heaven?

Some come across that way i believe.

 

[theoda]

Let’s take the example from Ready’s list of saints. View #3, alleging that St. John of the Cross, Doctor of the Church, warned about hell. I am a Carmelite dedicated to study of the writings of this Order’s three Doctors. In all 706 pages of his “Collected Works,” there is only this one single sentence (#72) in the “[Minor Works](http://www.jesus-passion.com/Minor_Works_StJohn.htm#SAYINGS OF LIGHT AND LOVE)” out of the entire magnitude of his words. The one who repeats these quotations from saints has diligently looked for a needle in a huge haystack consisting of the most edifying and beautiful writings, in order to emphasize this insidious agenda, extremely out of context to the whole teaching of the particular saint.

I have read many, many writings of Doctors of the Church who have written magnificent beauty for our benefit, and it is a drop of water in an ocean to try to find excerpts on hell. How sick is the mentality of anyone that attempts to bring a soul to Christ by using threats of hell. Pope Pius XII and others specifically denounced any attempt to convert a soul using this deplorable means. See Mystici Corporis, #104.
Though We desire this unceasing prayer to rise to God from the whole Mystical Body in common, that all the straying sheep may hasten to enter the one fold of Jesus Christ, yet We recognize that this must be done of their own free will; for no one believes unless he wills to believe. Hence they are most certainly not genuine Christians who against their belief are forced to go into a church, to approach the altar and to receive the Sacraments; for the “faith without which it is impossible to please God” is an entirely free “submission of intellect and will.” Therefore, whenever it happens, despite the constant teaching of this Apostolic See, that anyone is compelled to embrace the Catholic faith against his will, Our sense of duty demands that We condemn the act. For men must be effectively drawn to the truth by the Father of light through the spirit of His beloved Son, because, endowed as they are with free will, they can misuse their freedom under the impulse of mental agitation and base desires.
Another saint mentioned was Alphonsus Liguori. Again, one little needle among the ocean of beauty was pulled out of context. Read his true sentiments:
Further, in chapter 6 [he quotes the Council of Trent here] it says that sinners are put in a fit state to receive justification by hope in God through the merits of Jesus Christ: “They are raised to hope, trusting that God will be merciful to them through Christ.” [Sess. 6, c. 6] Now, if Jesus Christ had not applied to all the merits of His Passion, then, since no one [without a special revelation] could be certain of being among the number of those to whom the Redeemer had willed to apply the fruit of His merits, no sinner could entertain such hope, not having the certain and secure foundation which is necessary for hope; namely, that God wills all men to be saved, and will pardon all sinners prepared for it by the merits of Jesus Christ.
You may want to read some of these saints’ writings, and I’ll bet the farm that you will not find such sentiments, other than an isolated comment taken out of context to the whole of their words… Check them out.

In the end, you must remember that the Church has the authentic interpretation and teaching, and no saint or Doctor of the Church is above the Magisterium.

In the end, the magisterium still hasn’t taught anything about the matter, and in the end, the saints very clearly agree that few are saved.

We’re not saying few are saved because we want to scare someone of hell. That would be missing the whole point. We are trying to get people to realize the dreadful reality so that they may strive to be among the fewest of the few. Sinners may convert after realizing that few are saved.

If you think no saint thinks that few are saved, and that all quotes are taken out of context, I’m sorry but you are clearly wrong. There are many clear quotes by saints about the matter. It would be best to trust the doctors and theologians of the Church than our own personal opinion.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

In the end, the magisterium still hasn’t taught anything about the matter, and in the end, the saints very clearly agree that few are saved.

We’re not saying few are saved because we want to scare someone of hell. That would be missing the whole point. We are trying to get people to realize the dreadful reality so that they may strive to be among the fewest of the few. Sinners may convert after realizing that few are saved.

If you think no saint thinks that few are saved, and that all quotes are taken out of context, I’m sorry but you are clearly wrong. There are many clear quotes by saints about the matter. It would be best to trust the doctors and theologians of the Church than our own personal opinion.

I strongly believe that only a few go to hell…

 

[agnes_therese]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Why would you assume something you couldn’t possibly know?

All I can go by is how people present themselves on this forum.

 

[Vico]

Can someone explain this scripture to me:

“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

There was another scripture I read that was similar. Does this mean only a few people will enter Heaven?

All of the saints, which includes the baptized infants that died before the age of reason, will be there, so it will not be only a few.

The doctrine of *apokatastasis *(everyone will, in the end, be saved) was condemned by the Church in the Council of Constantinople in 543 A.D. and Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D.

Matthew 7:13-14, Luke 13:23-24

I would say that Jesus echos Isaiah 35:8:
A highway will be there, a roadway,
And it will be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean will not travel on it,
But it will be for him who walks that way,
And fools will not wander on it.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

If few meant 1% and the world had 7 billion people then 70 million would be saved which would be a great multitude!

I use this example to show that there is no contradiction between a few percentage wise and a great multitude number wise.

Jesus said “Few”. Why don’t people simply believe Him? When He said “Few”–why shouldn’t He be taken literally? Doesn’t the Catholic Church teach that in most cases in scripture–though certainly not all–that the literal sense should be applied?

Is “Few” “a hard saying” like Jesus’ words about the Eucharist in John 6?

 

[hansard]

If few meant 1% and the world had 7 billion people then 70 million would be saved which would be a great multitude!

I use this example to show that there is no contradiction between a few percentage wise and a great multitude number wise.

Jesus said “Few”. Why don’t people simply believe Him? When He said “Few”–why shouldn’t He be taken literally? Doesn’t the Catholic Church teach that in most cases in scripture–though certainly not all–that the literal sense should be applied?

Is “Few” “a hard saying” like Jesus’ words about the Eucharist in John 6?

Does the Church teach that a literal reading is valid in most cases? There are clear cases where a metaphorical reading is needed: when Jesus employs parables to make a point; when he refers to himself as, for example, “the good shepherd”. In other cases, the Church is absolutely unyielding in its literal interpretation (John 6 and the Flesh/Blood reference is the ultimate in this area).

On another of your points: if only 1% were saved, would that not be a complete victory for Satan? Imagine if 99% of your divinely, eternally created souls went to waste in Hell.
I know it’s only a guess, but that represents the vast, overwhelming bulk of humanity. What a waste. What a disaster of cosmic proportions. It would make a mockery of all creation, I think.

Maybe the figure is zero, and no souls are in Hell.

Maybe God’s infinite mercy is actually infinite after all.

 

[mikekle]

Does the Church teach that a literal reading is valid in most cases? There are clear cases where a metaphorical reading is needed: when Jesus employs parables to make a point; when he refers to himself as, for example, “the good shepherd”. In other cases, the Church is absolutely unyielding in its literal interpretation (John 6 and the Flesh/Blood reference is the ultimate in this area).

On another of your points: if only 1% were saved, would that not be a complete victory for Satan? Imagine if 99% of your divinely, eternally created souls went to waste in Hell.
I know it’s only a guess, but that represents the vast, overwhelming bulk of humanity. What a waste. What a disaster of cosmic proportions. It would make a mockery of all creation, I think.

Maybe the figure is zero, and no souls are in Hell.

Maybe God’s infinite mercy is actually infinite after all.

I think this way too…seems most logical that if a majority of people choose damnation over living with God in their lives, well, Satan has ‘won’ in that regard, in that more people choose his way versus Gods…I think this has very serious implications, probably ones we cannot comprehend.

 

[cena]

Does the Church teach that a literal reading is valid in most cases? There are clear cases where a metaphorical reading is needed: when Jesus employs parables to make a point; when he refers to himself as, for example, “the good shepherd”. In other cases, the Church is absolutely unyielding in its literal interpretation (John 6 and the Flesh/Blood reference is the ultimate in this area).

On another of your points: if only 1% were saved, would that not be a complete victory for Satan? Imagine if 99% of your divinely, eternally created souls went to waste in Hell.
I know it’s only a guess, but that represents the vast, overwhelming bulk of humanity. What a waste. What a disaster of cosmic proportions. It would make a mockery of all creation, I think.

Maybe the figure is zero, and no souls are in Hell.

Maybe God’s infinite mercy is actually infinite after all.

If you read the end of Matthew in the bible Jesus seems to be telling a story that is more than just a warning.
The only complete victory would be 100%. Satan can’t force us to sin we choose that ourselves.

 

[Good_Fella]

All people hear God’s call through the voice of conscience. If we conclude that that only a literal few among the many (each and every one of us) who are called by God get to Heaven, then we must assume that the majority of people who have existed chose to reject the damning voice of their conscience to their dying day. This is something no human being could possibly ever know with absolute certainty unless they received by reliable confirmation, if that could indeed be established, which I doubt, a private revelation from God Himself who alone knows. All we can do is just needlessly speculate on a matter which really isn’t any of our business. What we must be concerned with is the fact that many souls do end up in Hell, and that our own souls might end up there as well if we fail to persevere in faith,. Our business is to constantly pray for the graces we all need to get to Heaven and to repent and make reparation for our sins and those of others through personal sacrifice. This question supersedes the Church’s teaching authority to define dogma, and so we will never know with the certainty of faith whether literally only a few souls enter Heaven. What is dogma is the existence of Purgatory, and for this reason I am inclined to believe that more souls get to Heaven than they would if Purgatory never existed.

You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.
Psalm 139, 1-4

PAX
:heaven: