only one correct religion with the truth?

[Sochi]

Thank you

But I seem to recall the only thing “my faith” has to do with the discussion is that truth is singular, and it rest in its totallity ONLY within the holder of all the Keys to heaven.

Mt. 16: 15-19
John 17:13-22
Mark 16:15-16
Mt. 28:16-20

Are just a few proofs of this reality. Amen
God Bless you

Patrick

How about Mark 4:33,34? We are arrogant to think we know the core of His teaching from what’s left as introductory public knowledge and some historically questionable legend. And how on Earth are you going to have any weight whatsoever with your quotes, as they require belief, not knowledge, to begin with? You grew up in your faith, I’m guessing so you have no idea how utterly improbable christianism is to someone who hears about it as an adult for the first time. And please con’t quote to me about missionaries. The record of christianist missionaries is one of the most sullied imaginable, the few kind and good notwithstanding. Yes, we’re back to Columbus, et al.

 

[PRmerger]

How about Mark 4:33,34?

We Catholics give Mark 4:33-34 a hearty Amen! After all, it is only because of us Catholics that you know that it is inspired.

[BIBLEDRB]Mark 4:33-34[/BIBLEDRB]

We are arrogant to think we know the core of His teaching from what’s left as introductory public knowledge and some historically questionable legend.

It’s a shame that people are so complacent about their apparent lack of knowledge. As if we should be satisfied that a teenager can’t read.

And how on Earth are you going to have any weight whatsoever with your quotes, as they require belief, not knowledge, to begin with? You grew up in your faith, I’m guessing so you have no idea how utterly improbable christianism is to someone who hears about it as an adult for the first time.

Well, that’s like saying a person that we ought not teach Calculus to people because it sounds so utterly improbable to someone who hears about it as an adult for the first time.

 

[Sochi]

We Catholics give Mark 4:33-34 a hearty Amen! After all, it is only because of us Catholics that you know that it is inspired.

Well, at least that it exists. I’m inspired when I look at a sunrise or a flower, or a great individual. So that isn’t saying much if you are not predisposed to such piety. And as rousing as a hearty "Amen! " might be, what does that passage mean? Passing it of with an “amen” is like Americans yelling “We’re #1!!” when by the measure of our own institutes and by international standards, we are 18th to 47th in nearly every important area, and managed to slide there in about 30 years. What we are first in is military spending, equaling that of the next 17 nations, first in the percentage of our population in prison, of any country, and first in childhood poverty in industrialized nations.

It’s a shame that people are so complacent about their apparent lack of knowledge. As if we should be satisfied that a teenager can’t read.

Yes I wonder that often on here. For my part, I was at the top of my religious studies courses since grammar school, and have read consistently about Church history and comparative religion since. That would mean about 50 years of considerations. My reading scores were in 97%-- 99+% through high school and college. Still pretty good, I guess, as though I’m not a pro editor, I’ve done a few books and many papers, stories, etc. for published authors, one who was on Dr Oz.

Well, that’s like saying a person that we ought not teach Calculus to people because it sounds so utterly improbable to someone who hears about it as an adult for the first time.

Not really, eh? Out of courtesy I will not give the common one paragraph synopsis of how many people feel about that. And I don’t agree with it, but it is rather plain in its description. And one can demonstrate to any one of any religion, if they are interested, that calculus works. Not so much one faith to another. The religion and calculus comparison is not even apples and oranges.

I feel your utter sincerity and conviction, PR, but it just isn’t that simple. If it was, I’d be attending at St Patrick’s down the street, where I repaired one of their Madonnas. Poor thing had lost her hands and her face looked like she was in need of a cure. Was happy to help out. Lovely church, but I’d be a hypocrite to attend. Thanks for your time.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, at least that it exists. I’m inspired when I look at a sunrise or a flower, or a great individual. So that isn’t saying much if you are not predisposed to such piety.

True, dat. I’m sure you *are *inspired by a neat looking flower. I don’t have a problem with that.

But what Catholics mean by inspired, as it applies to the Bible, is that it is theopneustos. (see here for what that means: biblehub.com/greek/2315.htm)

That’s quite different, Sochi, than a pretty flower making you feel squishy inside.

 

[PRmerger]

.And one can demonstrate to any one of any religion, if they are interested, that calculus works.

I don’t know about what faith you have, Sochi, but what makes Catholicism so formidable to argue against is that it is so utterly reasonable, logical and its apologia (defense) is so well preserved and presented.

So, Catholicism “works”, in the same way that Calculus “works”–they both make sense eminently when one uses logic and reason to find one’s way to truth.

I feel your utter sincerity and conviction, PR, but it just isn’t that simple.

What isn’t that simple? Catholicism?

Catholicism is simple enough for a lamb to wade in but deep enough for an elephant to swim in.

If it was, I’d be attending at St Patrick’s down the street, where I repaired one of their Madonnas. Poor thing had lost her hands and her face looked like she was in need of a cure. Was happy to help out. Lovely church, but I’d be a hypocrite to attend. Thanks for your time.

You are certainly welcome to join us at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, Sochi. But you are correct in that you don’t want to be a hypocrite when you do–conform your views to what God has revealed first!

 

[Sochi]

True, dat. I’m sure you *are *inspired by a neat looking flower. I don’t have a problem with that.

But what Catholics mean by inspired, as it applies to the Bible, is that it is theopneustos. (see here for what that means: biblehub.com/greek/2315.htm)

That’s quite different, Sochi, than a pretty flower making you feel squishy inside.

I’m quite aware of what it means, PR. I was having serious thoughts about seminary. I had the chops. Not going was the best decision I ever made.

 

[Sochi]

I don’t know about what faith you have, Sochi,

In fact, I’m in the camp that understands belief and faith as only temporarily useful and something that merits constant monitoring and questioning. That and shock seem to be the only ways through it. Or Grace. Sometimes someone just wakes up.

but what makes Catholicism so formidable to argue against is that it is so utterly reasonable, logical and its apologia (defense) is so well preserved and presented.

So, Catholicism “works”, in the same way that Calculus “works”–they both make sense eminently when one uses logic and reason to find one’s way to truth.

Yes, PR, Man is a consummate rationalizing animal. But what if there is unaccounted for data? But more insidiously, what if the resoning is built on something actual, but what that means is forgotten through formalization?

What isn’t that simple? Catholicism?

Well, I guess the tax code is more complicated. Not sure. I’m not saying that it isn’t useful for you, or for many. It is just that there is so much more. And simpler. Calculus? Perhaps not.

Catholicism is simple enough for a lamb to wade in but deep enough for an elephant to swim in.

Let’s not go too far with that one…so far you are not too good with analogies. And there is quicksand in that one.

You are certainly welcome to join us at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, Sochi. But you are correct in that you don’t want to be a hypocrite when you do–conform your views to what God has revealed first!

Well, I’m not going to take that as patronizing. What else can I do? I don’t think you are mean, so I have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m quite aware of what it means, PR.

Then it’s quite curious that you would confuse “inspired” as it applies to the Bible with a pretty flower making you feel squishy inside.

The 2 concepts are as different as a piece of yummy bread is from the Most Holy Eucharist.

I was having serious thoughts about seminary. I had the chops. Not going was the best decision I ever made.

Well, it was the best decision if that wasn’t God’s plan for you.

However, if it was God’s plan for you to be a Catholic priest, then it was the worst decision you ever made.

 

[PRmerger]

In fact, I’m in the camp that understands belief and faith as only temporarily useful

LOL.

What, then, is the default when the “temporary” runs out? To what do we turn if we don’t have belief and faith?

Knowledge via telepathy? Alien mind control?

and something that merits constant monitoring and questioning.

You are very Catholic when you say this.

Yes, PR, Man is a consummate rationalizing animal.

Very Catholic, this!

But what if there is unaccounted for data?

Can you offer some proof of this “unaccounted for data”?

But more insidiously, what if the resoning is built on something actual, but what that means is forgotten through formalization?

I don’t know what this means.

Well, I guess the tax code is more complicated. Not sure. I’m not saying that it isn’t useful for you, or for many. It is just that there is so much more.

So much more than Catholicism?

All truth is Catholic truth, Sochi. So there can’t be “more than Catholicism”.

Let’s not go too far with that one…so far you are not too good with analogies.

I think it is you who has demonstrated an inability to think in the abstract, Sochi.

And there is quicksand in that one

Quicksand isn’t a problem for Catholics, Sochi. That’s why we have a Church–to give us the tools to get out of the quicksand.

Well, I’m not going to take that as patronizing. What else can I do?

What else can you do? Keep searching, Sochi! Read up on what the Church actually teaches!

And stay here and dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics!

Once you realize that you didn’t actually know the faith that you left, you will return so you can receive true nourishment.

 

[Sochi]

LOL.

What, then, is the default when the “temporary” runs out? To what do we turn if we don’t have belief and faith?

Well apparently that is what you have yet to discover. No hurry. It doesn’t even matter.

Knowledge via telepathy? Alien mind control?

Interesting topics, somewhat fanciful, but irrelevant.

You are very Catholic when you say this.

Very Catholic, this!

So here’s one piece of the problem: it isn’t about being Catholic not.

Can you offer some proof of this “unaccounted for data”?

Here I am.

don’t know what this means.

My point

So much more than Catholicism?

All truth is Catholic truth, Sochi. So there can’t be “more than Catholicism”.

OK, That is honing in on the problem, another piece.

think it is you who has demonstrated an inability to think in the abstract, Sochi.

Quicksand isn’t a problem for Catholics, Sochi. That’s why we have a Church–to give us the tools to get out of the quicksand.

No comment.

What else can you do? Keep searching, Sochi! Read up on what the Church actually teaches!

Why do you think I stopped practicing?

And stay here and dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics!

No, they scare me. I’d rather talk with ones who are awake.

Once you realize that you didn’t actually know the faith that you left, you will return so you can receive true nourishment.

Well, it is some comfort that you are capable of saying things you say to me because you don’t read what I write. Well, I’m sure you think you do, but what you are “reading” clearly is what you are making up about it. Thanks for your effort, though.

 

[daler]

Well apparently that is what you have yet to discover. No hurry. It doesn’t even matter.

Interesting topics, somewhat fanciful, but irrelevant.
So here’s one piece of the problem: it isn’t about being Catholic not.

Here I am.

My point

OK, That is honing in on the problem, another piece.



No comment.

Why do you think I stopped practicing?

No, they scare me. I’d rather talk with ones who are awake.

Well, it is some comfort that you are capable of saying things you say to me because you don’t read what I write. Well, I’m sure you think you do, but what you are “reading” clearly is what you are making up about it. Thanks for your effort, though.

Wow!

Ya know how ya just gotta say “Wow!” once in awhile?

This is one of those times…

Wow!



.

 

[PRmerger]

Well apparently that is what you have yet to discover. No hurry. It doesn’t even matter.

Why don’t you enlighten me?

What is the default for when the “temporary” runs out?

So here’s one piece of the problem: it isn’t about being Catholic not.

Did you mean to write the above? It appears as if you put a period before you completed your thought?

Here I am.

YOU are the source of the unaccounted for data?

Well, let’s consider this.

What info do you have that hasn’t been given to the CC? And how do I evaluate this?

And remember, what you say about yourself, you need to apply to all the other folks who have also claimed to be a “source of unaccounted for data” that we ought to reject:

Here’s the results of someone who says that he is a “source of unaccounted for data” in which we are to eat grass in order to grow closer to God:



And here’s another guy who’s making the claim:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Now, how do I evaluate your claim to be a “source of unaccounted for data” judiciously, Sochi?

 

[PRmerger]

Why do you think I stopped practicing?

Well, firstly I think you were very poorly catechized. I doubt you could have articulated any apologia for, say, the Immaculate Conception, (without first appealing to Father Google )

Secondly, you probably wanted to do some things that Christ and His Church said was wrong, so you decided that, well, “God didn’t really say that!”.

In essence, you created a god after your own image rather than conforming yourself to God.

If you are in a faith/religion/theology that conforms to everything to which you already agree, then you have created your own god.

For it stands to reason that if there is a God, this God is going to make demands/claims/commands that are not attractive to us.

Is there anything in your new faith tradition that fits the above criterion? Is there something that you say, “I know God says that [A] is wrong, and I wish that it was permissible, but God said it, so now I conform my views to that”.

Rather than saying, “I believe that [A] is just fine, so I’m going to say that God never said that [A] is wrong!”

 

[Sochi]

Why don’t you enlighten me?

Because I can’t. And personal enlightenment is a myth. Please don’t ask me to be arrogant or hubristic. If you are asking for concepts or ideations you can run through your rejection mechanism, I don’t have that for you. All the information you are asking for is in the mirror. I can’t help with that, other than reporting that when one looks there, worlds can open, even as the world is destroyed before your eyes. And then there is still the world. You know, still the world.

What is the default for when the “temporary” runs out?

That which allows you to have the thought: “temporary” or any other. What is that?

Did you mean to write the above? It appears as if you put a period before you completed your thought?

Apparently. Maybe it would be easier for you if you got rid of the “not.” So perhaps it was just a happy accident?

YOU are the source of the unaccounted for data?

“YOU” is the reason the unaccounted for data is invisible.

Well, let’s consider this.

What info do you have that hasn’t been given to the CC? And how do I evaluate this?

I Don’t “have” anything you don’t, PR. But can you evaluate what you are before you had inculcation as a Catholic, or anything else? And I do mean anything.

And remember, what you say about yourself, you need to apply to all the other folks who have also claimed to be a “source of unaccounted for data” that we ought to reject:

Or accept. One coin seems to have two faces. This one also has an edge. So yes, let’s consider that. It is all one substance, that coin, yes?

Here’s the results of someone who says that he is a “source of unaccounted for data” in which we are to eat grass in order to grow closer to God:

You certainly have an eye for the bizarre, PR. I have wheat grass occasionally. I feel so close to them. I hope you do too. They are all in the image and likeness of the God you ignorantly worship.

And here’s another guy who’s making the claim:

You have quite a skill with accessing photos. Admirable. Is that a mirror behind him?! LOLs!!!

Now, how do I evaluate your claim to be a “source of unaccounted for data” judiciously, Sochi?

I don’t know, PR. But you seem intrigued by your imaginary take on a straw question. I mean, I would ask how the word “source” got into your quote, as applied to me. I am not the “source” of unaccounted for “information.” You are misquoting even yourself, and me, and seem reliably to go to a one valued logic about your constructs. That is evidence that you are not considering fields of possible data. So you are kind of making my point. Is that really useful to us? How? You are doing well. Please continue.

 

[Sochi]

Well, firstly I think you were very poorly catechized.

Wow. What a disappointing report to all the nuns, priests, and brothers who gave me stars and “A’s” and asked me to take CCC classes. I’d rebuke them, but most of them are way gone. One of them, a priest with a Phd in history of Middle Eastern bibilical times, and a few other things, I still talk with. I am not sure how he will take your report of his poor judgement.

I doubt you could have articulated any apologia for, say, the Immaculate Conception, (without first appealing to Father Google )

I’m enjoying your sense of humor, PR, along with admiring your ability on the internet. I am, as well, thrilled that you admit some sort of doubt!

Secondly, you probably wanted to do some things that Christ and His Church said was wrong, so you decided that, well, “God didn’t really say that!”.

PR, If I wanted to know what God “really” said, I’m sure I can find you, or PJM, easily enough on here. Your story about me is nowhere near the case, but I’m happy to see you continuing to use your imagination. Now just give it freer reign. Let it work for you, instead of against you, appearing as me.

In essence, you created a god after your own image rather than conforming yourself to God.

There you go again! No, that is the job of someone else. I can’t pretend to have any handle on Deity!!! You are funny!

If you are in a faith/religion/theology that conforms to everything to which you already agree, then you have created your own god.

Whew. I’m safe…

For it stands to reason that if there is a God, this God is going to make demands/claims/commands that are not attractive to us.

I guess you have a reasonable God. Or a well reasoned God. Or a God with reasons. I don’t know. But that seems a very anthropomorphic way to view Deity. But whatever works for you is fine. I can only encourage you to Love your God totally. “He” is full of surprises!

Is there anything in your new faith tradition that fits the above criterion? Is there something that you say, “I know God says that [A] is wrong, and I wish that it was permissible, but God said it, so now I conform my views to that”.

Uh, no. Perhaps you didn’t read what I said about faith, above, or in my signature? You strike me sometimes as not being a thorough reader. I trust that is a wrong perception.

Rather than saying, “I believe that [A] is just fine, so I’m going to say that God never said that [A] is wrong!”

Huh? That has what to do with what???

 

[tbcrawford]

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639420/Pope-Francis-bows-head-prayer-Western-Wall-leaving-note-calling-peace-Christians-Muslims-Jews.html

[The Pope prayed at some of the holiest sites in Christianity, Islam and Judaism over the past three days and held a mass at the location believed to have been where Jesus hosted his last supper.

Pope Francis, in accordance with Jewish tradition left a note in a crack in the Western Wall calling for peace and understanding between the three religions.

Pope Francis visited the Dome of the Rock which is the third most holy site in Islam.

In a mark of respect, Pope Francis removed his shoes before stepping into the gold-topped dome where Muslims believe the Prophet Mohammad ascended into heaven.

The mosque is known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as the Temple Mount.

He said: ‘May we respect and love one another as brothers and sisters. May we learn to understand the suffering of others. May not one abuse the name of God through violence.’

Pope Francis addressed the grand mufti of Jerusalem and other Muslim dignitaries as ‘dear brothers’ during this morning’s address.

Writing in a memorial book, he commented: 'Never again, Lord, never again! Here we are, Lord, shamed by what man - created in your own image and likeness - was capable of doing.

‘With shame for the fact that man made himself the owner of evil; with shame that man made himself into God and sacrificed his brothers. Never again!! Never again!! Francis. 5.26.2014.’]

The message we can take from this is…
: 'May we respect and love one another as brothers and sisters." (Pope Francis)

We are all brothers and sisters of God regardless of whether we accept it or not, no matter what religion we call it.

 

[daler]

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2639420/Pope-Francis-bows-head-prayer-Western-Wall-leaving-note-calling-peace-Christians-Muslims-Jews.html

[The Pope prayed at some of the holiest sites in Christianity, Islam and Judaism over the past three days and held a mass at the location believed to have been where Jesus hosted his last supper.

Pope Francis, in accordance with Jewish tradition left a note in a crack in the Western Wall calling for peace and understanding between the three religions.

Pope Francis visited the Dome of the Rock which is the third most holy site in Islam.

In a mark of respect, Pope Francis removed his shoes before stepping into the gold-topped dome where Muslims believe the Prophet Mohammad ascended into heaven.

The mosque is known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as the Temple Mount.

He said: ‘May we respect and love one another as brothers and sisters. May we learn to understand the suffering of others. May not one abuse the name of God through violence.’

Pope Francis addressed the grand mufti of Jerusalem and other Muslim dignitaries as ‘dear brothers’ during this morning’s address.

Writing in a memorial book, he commented: 'Never again, Lord, never again! Here we are, Lord, shamed by what man - created in your own image and likeness - was capable of doing.

‘With shame for the fact that man made himself the owner of evil; with shame that man made himself into God and sacrificed his brothers. Never again!! Never again!! Francis. 5.26.2014.’]

The message we can take from this is…
: 'May we respect and love one another as brothers and sisters." (Pope Francis)

We are all brothers and sisters of God regardless of whether we accept it or not, no matter what religion we call it.

Very good post, tb

God bless Pope Francis…

 

[tbcrawford]

Very good post, tb

God bless Pope Francis…

Thank you and God bless Pope Francis and God bless you daler

 

[Matthew_Light]

[The Pope prayed at some of the holiest sites in Christianity, Islam and Judaism over the past three days and held a mass at the location believed to have been where Jesus hosted his last supper.

Pope Francis, in accordance with Jewish tradition left a note in a crack in the Western Wall calling for peace and understanding between the three religions.

Pope Francis visited the Dome of the Rock which is the third most holy site in Islam.

In a mark of respect, Pope Francis removed his shoes before stepping into the gold-topped dome where Muslims believe the Prophet Mohammad ascended into heaven.

The mosque is known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as the Temple Mount.

He said: ‘May we respect and love one another as brothers and sisters. May we learn to understand the suffering of others. May not one abuse the name of God through violence.’

Wonderful stuff!
[/quote]

 

[Sochi]

Wonderful stuff!

Yes, it demonstrates a very small movement towards some sense of Unicity.

From here, there is yet the inherent difficulty that the very labeling of the three Abrahamic faiths, and their tens of thousands of sects, 40 thousand in christianism alone, never mind the other 45% of the world, is inherently violent. Why? Because the adherence to a belief system, in the unteleological way that most hold theirs, prevents examination of the basic operating system from an unprejudiced standpoint. In other words, all these religionists, are, if you will, postulating that DOSm or even the electricity running the machine, is a subset of their particular software installation. How well is that working? In other words again, people who are ignorant of code and programming are assuming they understand what the software is about in terms of what allows it, or any software, to run in the first place. Same for politics, finaces, etc. The one factor lacking in all is basic self knowledge and both intellectual and emotional maturity,