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PRmerger
Guest
This is correct. The Catholic Church* is *the one true Church established by Christ and His Apostles.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
You wrote, “When He said- It is finished-
that is exactly what it means. Done, nada more to be
said or done except to realize WHO He is.”
“It is finished” translates as PAID IN FULL.
Some say that Jesus paid a debt that none of us could ever pay and Jesus, on the cross, said that this debt was PAID IN FULL.
Some say that Jesus took ALL of the sins of all upon Himself on the cross and this “PAID IN FULL” in relation to taking “ALL of the sins of all upon Himself on the cross” speaks volumes if one is willing to hear.
Of course, it is also written, “They have eyes but do not see, they have ears but do not hear”, so the blindness and deafness, in a non-physical sense, is spoken of in the bible.
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Matthew_Light
Guest
A beautiful quotation, thank you for sharing it!
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Tom_Baum
Guest
In Christianity, Jesus said that “No one comes to the FATHER except thru Me”, He did NOT say, ‘no one comes to God except thru Me’.
Seems to me that Jesus said that there was only one way to the Father but left the field wide open as to the ways to God since in Christianity God Is a Trinity so there could be many, many ways to Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
These might be condictory to some people but they sure aren’t to me just as what you spoke of not being contradictory in Judaism.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
Jesus, Himself, spoke of both.
Once you “open the door”, are you going to stand there forever or maybe walk?
Everyone has there own “path”, that is why no one can tell anyone else “exactly” how they should “follow or walk with”, take your pick, Jesus.
As far as “God is okay with us”, seems to me that God might have been and still is trying to get thru to us in what God did in the Incarnation that “God is okay with us”, ain’t no wonder my namesake said that “these are a hardheaded and stiffnecked people”, seems as if we still are, doesn’t it?
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Xuan
Guest
Hi PR,
I honestly can’t tell if you’re deliberately being obtuse or not. So I’ll spell it out.
Of course he was talking about Catholics.The point of my post was the validity of his observation. That’s why I called it a very astute observation. It was indeed valid, so valid that it can be applied to non-Catholics as well who are truly seeking God and are being led by God on their own individual paths to God. These are the people John Paul II was talking about.
That was my point: no more, no less.
I thought it was obvious; look at all the disagreements here.
Xuan
meltzerboy
New member
Yes, I understand your analogy. According to Judaism, it is believed that one may follow a different religion and arrive at G-d; one need not practice Judaism. Further, G-d had a hand in intentionally creating or enabling, through humans of course, a multitude of religions, so that there would be many paths toward Him. Christianity has very successfully spread the Word of G-d, as have other faiths, no matter the technical differences from Judaism. I realize Christianity, including Catholicism, does not believe this; for though there may be several paths to Jesus, the end result is always arriving at Jesus. Further, based on what you (and Jesus) state, there is only one path to the Father.
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PRmerger
Guest
I commend you for your restraint, Xuan.
Notwithstanding this great temperance, it is important that you be clear in your position.
It initially did not appear to be consonant with the Catholic Church’s position, nor did it correctly limn that of St. John of the Cross.
Let us be clear: the Catholic Church is the only means for our salvation. And those who reject it reject Him. And those who reject Him can never join Him at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.
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Matthew_Light
Guest
Is there any possibility at all that this quote:
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”
Might not mean that all other Churches are mistaken, and that all other Faiths are mistaken?
It is possible that there are other interpretations that might be valid?
I say this mainly from a practical perspective - when we insist that our point of view is the only possible correct one, superior to all others, and that all other perspectives must bow down before our own - this seems to be at the root of all religious and worldview conflicts - Orthodox versus Catholic, Catholic versus Protestant, Muslim versus Christian, Atheist versus Believer, Democrat versus Republican, and on down the line. Perhaps there is another way?
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PRmerger
Guest
It depends. You need to finish your sentence first. “…that all other Churches/Faiths are mistaken…” about what?
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PRmerger
Guest
I hope that you do see the irony in this proposal, yes?
You see that you are reserving for yourself the right to say, “This is the right way!”* while objecting to Catholicism proclaiming, “This is the right way!”.
*Here, “This” means: the Bahai view of looking at all religions as just fine.
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marywarfield
Guest
No. Because of Isiaah 22.
Jesus has come to fulfill the Old Covenant with the
New. Obviously. He will offer Himself as the highly special
Tamid lamb sin atonement of the Sinai.
Before He does this though the new “Law” must
be established. And He does this according to How
He has ALWAYS done it- by establishing a prime minister/
vicar priesthood.
Earlier in Isiaah and in Numbers we see Abraham
called rock as in he will be the physical father of the kingdom.
Rock also means “father”.
Later in Isiaah 22 we see the attributes of the Davidic
Kings Vicar/Prime Minister:
He will be the spiritual father of the children of
David’s Kingdom.
He will have the only key to the House of David.
As such the key gives him the power and authority
to “open and shut” any issue concerning the welfare
of the Jews from the “smallest to the greatest”.
(Peter, also called rock, is given two keys to
the House of God-Heaven, for the
“binding and loosening” of sin and the “least
in the Kingdom will be called greatest”. )
Davidic King’s Vicar= the King of Kings Vicar.
Rock=Father=Abraham=Vicar=Peter=Pope/Papa.
The meaning of the New is found in the Old.
M
marywarfield
Guest
It’s actually Isiaah 22: 21-25 and he gets a special
wardrobe too!
wardrobe too!
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Sochi
Guest
This is a very important consideration. The best and most impartial treatment I’ve ever read about how to think regarding this question is in a rather remarkable text. Despite its hoaky title, I know it has been used in Catholic classes on comparative religion. It comes highly recommended by many clergy and lay of many faiths. I found it to be very well written, thoroughly annotated and referenced, contains useful diagrams, and applies ideas not often found in these kinds of discussion. It is also inexpensively available on Amazon at low cost.
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Servant19
Guest
Matthew was not saying “THIS” is the way…he was saying “Might it not be possible?” / “Is it a possibility that…?”
There was no absolutism to the statement.
“Let us reason TOGETHER” is what he is saying, from my humble understanding, whereas absolutist agendas would state “Let us reason MY WAY”
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Sochi
Guest
Is this really the doctrine of the Church? I mean many might believe that, but I’m pretty sure it is not doctrine that it is the only means, yes? Preferred and commonly accepted by many since Jesus, of course, but “only?” I mean, I could put it another way, but I also am exercising restraint.
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tonyfish58
Guest
I think the Bible makes it clear, here are a couple of passages
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So as one can see, here is the Basis of what One must Profess to gain Salvation.
God Bless and Regards Tony
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PRmerger
Guest
The “is it a possibility” is irrelevant.Matthew was not saying “THIS” is the way…he was saying “Might it not be possible?” / “Is it a possibility that…?”
There was no absolutism to the statement.
“Let us reason TOGETHER” is what he is saying, from my humble understanding, whereas absolutist agendas would state “Let us reason MY WAY”
If he is proposing that “A” is possibly correct (and he is!), then he is, ironically, doing exactly what he is objecting to Catholicism doing.
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PRmerger
Guest
Yes, it is indeed a doctrine of the Church.
Jesus the only way, the only means for our salvation.
I am quite certain that he never said, “It is commonly accepted by many that I am the way, the truth and the life, but not the ONLY way.”
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Servant19
Guest
No dear friend
The Catholic Faith says that a certain verse of the Gospel means ABC, there is no “maybe” or “is it possible that”
The Orthodox Faith says that the same verse means DEF, there is no “maybe’s”
Matthew is saying “maybe” or “is it a possibility” (I saw the word possible/possibility at least 3 times in his post)
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