only one correct religion with the truth?

[Sochi]

When there are two dogmatic beliefs, and each trying to convert the other, oppose each other, it is a form of violence. So are we aware of this factor in our life? And when you become aware of it what are you going to do? Do you say, ‘Yes, I am aware of it’ but carry on with violence? Therefore it becomes a very serious matter. If one is really to be free of violence, to look at it, to live with it, to understand it, to go into it and see all the multiple forms of violence, totally be acquainted with it - and when you are acquainted with something it flowers and then withers away, you don’t have to fight it.

When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is trying to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system. He is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

Jiddu Krishnamurti)

 

[Servant19]

I’m very disappointed by this post. It is beneath your
dignity and the dignity of the other posters and I will
tell you why. It is dishonest plain and simply
dishonest. Why? Because you have been repeatedly
told what the Church teaches concerning salvation
outside of the Church yet you cling to the injury
you received from some idiot spouting nonsense.
And at any time in your life while on the Internet
instead of posting this ridiculous obtuse attitude you
simply could have googled Catholic Catechism salvation
or justification or whatever and up would have
popped any number of sites including the Vaticans
own site with it spelled out clearly for you.

This makes your proposal that the Church work
for some immediate heaven on earth suspect since
people clinging to injuries they have no need to
experience is exactly what causes anger, wars, and
divisiveness around the globe.

I’m sorry to have disappointed you and many others, maybe even the Baha’is in this thread. It was not my intention to hurt, disappoint or anger anyone.

May I ask you therefore Mary, what is the meaning to these statements you made?

The Doctrine of the Church is very clear. There is
NO salvation without the Holy Mother Church.
None. Zero. Zip. Nada.
Can someone who has never heard of the Church
be saved? You betcha. Can someone ignorant of Christ
be saved? You betcha.
Just as there is no salvation without the Church
there is no condemnation without her participation
either. For the Church is heart of Christ’s mercy and
compassion.

…

Without the Church there is NO salvation for Christ
gave Peter the keys to the historic House of David/the
new Heaven and Earth.

I am not part of ANY Church, I am not ignorant of Christ, and I have heard of the Catholic Church.

Can you see, possibly, how your statements may be understood as me, my wife and children as not being saved? Or am I reading the entire thing incorrectly?

I am aware that the Catechism states ““Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus)”

…but I am most certainly not “inside” the church, refuse to take the Eucharist at school, never been to confession. How am I not “outside the Church”?

Please do not see this as a criticism. I am genuinely trying to understand

.

 

[arthra]

Ah. So Bahai teaching is against gay marriage?

And perhaps you could direct me to the official Bahai teaching on this social issue?

Here’s a start…

bahai-library.com/compilation_reini_homosexuality

 

[Servant19]

Please direct me to the official position in this. I had no idea! It is indeed encouraging to learn this.

PR see arthra’s post above

Thank you Art!

God bless

.

 

[Melchizedek89]

Mel,
. I think there is some miscommunication here which needs clarification. You are free to disagree, but we are here to discuss what the elephant is to us, as we are all blindfolded to the ultimate truths, each having only a particular perspective which we hold to be true. You have your trunk and I have a tail, etc.

. First, I agree that our lives should be an uninterrupted prayer. Baha’is consider work done in the service of others as worship, and this should be part of the mix. What I meant, however, is that when He Who is the Object of our prayers appears and we are too busy supposedly “praying to Him” that we fail to recognize Him to Whom our prayers are offered, there is something wrong with this picture.

. Second, all religions “claim” to glorify God, and do to the extent the people submit to His Will as it truly exists, and is not imagined. This is a judgement call, and all too often people condemn others according to limited understanding and particular interpretations which are often deficient and prejudiced.

. Third, let me answer with a quotation from the Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah:

. “Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.”

. Fourth, “separate” religions exist when a body of believers insist that theirs was the last Prophet sent by God, refusing to acknowledge the coming Prophet Who succeeds the former. Consider: “There shall be no Prophet after Joseph” “Moses was the last Prophet” “Jesus was the final Word” “Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets”.
. and yet! All, every one of them, foretell the coming of yet another Prophet in the fullness of time…
. and the weakest of arguments is to dismiss the others as demonic, thus allowing hate to enter the picture, instead of constructive dialogue with objective arguments to be considered dispassionately and in the spirit of: “Come, let us reason together”

. For a Baha’i to reject Baha’u’llah, he would first have to reject Christ, and all the other Prophets of God. Such a “Go to hell attitude” is not productive, and is little more than the demands of a childish tantrum. Who are you to say that I don’t know God because I don’t eat a cookie?.

.

1. No disagreement.
2. No, this is false. Not all religions glorify the same God. The “god(s)” of the Hindus is not the “god” of the Muslims, who is not the Christian God. This is obvious on even the simplest reading of what each believe. Instead of relativizing beliefs (relativism is an insane, self-destructive philosophy by the way), it’s better to constantly sort out what’s true, and go with that.
3. This proves that the “god” of the Bahai is not my Christian God. Even if I were to do everything possible to reject my God’s eternal love, He would not cease to love me and provide His blessings in my life, as He seeks to break my heart of stone and help me to return to Himself.
4. No, this is very, very false and ahistorical. I insist that Jesus Christ is God Himself! Not simply a prophet. Christianity also does not foretell any more prophets to come, and from the time of the Apostles onward we’ve never been expecting any.
5. Orthodox Christians have always anathematized those people who deny that Jesus Christ is God Himself, the second person of the Triune God, truly present in the Eucharist. Anathematization means that the person who holds such a false belief (this includes all Muslims) have rejected a fundamental truth about God, and like the demons are under God’s curse. They absolutely must humble themselves and change their beliefs!

I know this sounds harsh, but that’s reality. Whether or not people of any given religion are “saved” or not, or growing spiritually in connection with God or not is another matter. God loves and desires the best for everyone! Even those who have incredibly confused or simple understandings of Him. You can’t change the circumstances of your birth, but you can live in accordance with what’s true, in honesty and integrity, humbly correcting for errors when you find them.

That’s it, I’m done here. I’ve got other work to do…

 

[Melchizedek89]

This is a total misrepresentation of Baha’i Teaching. The Baha’i Faith does NOT teach that ALL religions are paths to the True God, it teaches that all major global religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith, and none other) were paths to the one True God during the Age of their influence. There are small prints around this main principle but that is the crux of it…

So do you think any of the religions I mention here are constructed by demonized men? If so why?



.

Yes, I do. Islam, for instance… it teaches that Jesus Christ is not God Himself! This is something contrary to the Gospel passed on in the Orthodox Christian Church… check Galatians 1:7-9

“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!”

Muhammad also is a very questionable personality. He was, for instance, a serial adulterer, and a sexual pervert and child molester (married to 11 or 13 women, and consummated a marriage to a pre-pubescent girl of 9 years of age) whose “god” permitted him to continue in his sinful abominations. His visions, furthermore, are what we Christians would consider to be instances of demonic possession.

 

[meltzerboy]

1. No disagreement.
2. No, this is false. Not all religions glorify the same God. The “god(s)” of the Hindus is not the “god” of the Muslims, who is not the Christian God. This is obvious on even the simplest reading of what each believe. Instead of relativizing beliefs (relativism is an insane, self-destructive philosophy by the way), it’s better to constantly sort out what’s true, and go with that.
3. This proves that the “god” of the Bahai is not my Christian God. Even if I were to do everything possible to reject my God’s eternal love, He would not cease to love me and provide His blessings in my life, as He seeks to break my heart of stone and help me to return to Himself.
4. No, this is very, very false and ahistorical. I insist that Jesus Christ is God Himself! Not simply a prophet. Christianity also does not foretell any more prophets to come, and from the time of the Apostles onward we’ve never been expecting any.
5. Orthodox Christians have always anathematized those people who deny that Jesus Christ is God Himself, the second person of the Triune God, truly present in the Eucharist. Anathematization means that the person who holds such a false belief (this includes all Muslims) have rejected a fundamental truth about God, and like the demons are under God’s curse. They absolutely must humble themselves and change their beliefs!

I know this sounds harsh, but that’s reality. Whether or not people of any given religion are “saved” or not, or growing spiritually in connection with God or not is another matter. God loves and desires the best for everyone! Even those who have incredibly confused or simple understandings of Him. You can’t change the circumstances of your birth, but you can live in accordance with what’s true, in honesty and integrity, humbly correcting for errors when you find them.

That’s it, I’m done here. I’ve got other work to do…

If #5 is correct about Orthodox Christianity’s view of Muslims, then anathematization must also apply to Jews. I hadn’t realized Orthodox Christianity was so different from Catholicism on this issue.

 

[Servant19]

Muhammad also is a very questionable personality. He was, for instance, a serial adulterer, and a sexual pervert and child molester (married to 11 or 13 women, and consummated a marriage to a pre-pubescent girl of 9 years of age) whose “god” permitted him to continue in his sinful abominations. His visions, furthermore, are what we Christians would consider to be instances of demonic possession.

I give up…

…this is straight from an anti-Islamic Christian website…

.

 

[daler]

If #5 is correct about Orthodox Christianity’s view of Muslims, then anathematization must also apply to Jews. I hadn’t realized Orthodox Christianity was so different from Catholicism on this issue.

Dang, Meltzer! We’re all goin’ to hell… ;’’-(

Got any marshmallows to toast on the fire?

 

[daler]

Jiddu Krishnamurti)

Sochi,
. A very good post at the right time and place. I was into reading Krsnamurti some 40 years ago. Many in the west were introduced to eastern thought through his travels and teachings.
. I had studied the Bhagavita and hung out with the Hare Krsnas in Denver back in the late 70s at the time when Prabupad AC Baktivedanta Swami passed away, visiting their Ashram at the time. They were quite devastated. I always like his translation of the Gita and for the most part his commentary was quite helpful.
Back in '73 I hitch hiked up to Barnet. Vermont to the Tail of the Tiger, a Zen retreat founded by Chogyam Trungpa R(name removed by moderator)oche who, as a gifted soul, was able to lead many people out of harms way from Tibet to India, I believe, sparing them the fate of the Chinise occupation and their methods.
. The eastern perspective adds much to the skewed and absolutist positions of typical western mindsets in their world view, which needs to be broadened considerately in some areas. We all draw water from deep wells of knowledge, from the same acquafir.

 

[daler]

1. No disagreement.
2. No, this is false. Not all religions glorify the same God. The “god(s)” of the Hindus is not the “god” of the Muslims, who is not the Christian God. This is obvious on even the simplest reading of what each believe. Instead of relativizing beliefs (relativism is an insane, self-destructive philosophy by the way), it’s better to constantly sort out what’s true, and go with that.
3. This proves that the “god” of the Bahai is not my Christian God. Even if I were to do everything possible to reject my God’s eternal love, He would not cease to love me and provide His blessings in my life, as He seeks to break my heart of stone and help me to return to Himself.
4. No, this is very, very false and ahistorical. I insist that Jesus Christ is God Himself! Not simply a prophet. Christianity also does not foretell any more prophets to come, and from the time of the Apostles onward we’ve never been expecting any.
5. Orthodox Christians have always anathematized those people who deny that Jesus Christ is God Himself, the second person of the Triune God, truly present in the Eucharist. Anathematization means that the person who holds such a false belief (this includes all Muslims) have rejected a fundamental truth about God, and like the demons are under God’s curse. They absolutely must humble themselves and change their beliefs!

I know this sounds harsh, but that’s reality. Whether or not people of any given religion are “saved” or not, or growing spiritually in connection with God or not is another matter. God loves and desires the best for everyone! Even those who have incredibly confused or simple understandings of Him. You can’t change the circumstances of your birth, but you can live in accordance with what’s true, in honesty and integrity, humbly correcting for errors when you find them.

That’s it, I’m done here. I’ve got other work to do…

Mel,
. Thank you for your continued dialogue, no matter the diffefences held, for dialogue itself contributes to understanding and clearing up misunderstanding with an opportunity to correct generally believed stories altered generations ago for the expedient purposes of those who benefited by attacks in all forms. The western observers lacked objectivity and insight, accepted rumors and calumnies as facts, along with fabrications of ignorant “followers” os early Islam who are guilty of embellishing the truth.
. I’ve studied a good bit on the historical basis of the early life of Muhammad from unbiased, objective sources, which comprehend the cultural norms of the day, which are not western nomrs, and excite accusations based on heresay from opponants and ignorant men out to slander the Prophet in any way they can.
… In a culture dominated by truly vicious men, a woman had little or no chance of survival outside of the protection of males in position to offer safety. The morals of the day required any such arrangements to be marriage. The number of Muhammads “wives” results largely with widows of early martyrs killed by the idolotrous opponants of the Prophet. Aiesha was prone to exaggerated imagination (motivated by a need for attention) and her blatant disagreements with Ali, the appointed and legitimate Successor of the Prophet upon His death. Her comments are a mix of truth and fantasy of her own making. In short, Muhammad was never a pedophile, had a single wife Khadija until she died, after which he took into his safety several other mostly widows whose husbands were killed in defense of Islm. To do otherwise in that bloodthirsty culture where woman were treated as cattle, their baby daughters burried alive by idol worshippers, had no hope of survival save by the compassionat shown by Muhammad.
. If it is more convenient and you desire to hold to rumers, you may continue to cling to rumors generated entirely by enemies and ambitious men within Islam. All the legitimately appointed Immams of the Faith were murdered by the forbidden sect, a schism clearly condemned by no less that the Quran itself.

. An appropriate quote would be this:

O SON OF SPIRIT!

.“The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.”

Baha’u’llah Hidden Words #2

 

[Vouthon]

Dear brother Servant,

I am sorry that you feel hurt and disheartened, nonetheless there must be many adherents of Catholicism that you have met who do not subscribe to such views. Why listen to anonymous people on the internet, when the Church’s teaching is so clear and says the very opposite?

If you wish I can point to several posts which have advised me tha there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church (I am not part of the Catholic Church ), that I should repent to avoid condemnation, that "Those who are not catholic and in mortal sin need to get to RCIA and into that confessional box with a holy priest and reconcile with our Saviour, before Jesus gives up on them (period).
Listen close. The time is ticking!"

The second comment is facile and not even worth acknowledgement. It has the character of a typical Fundamentalist Protestant understanding of salvation, such that I would hazard a guess that the individual is likely a fairly recent convert to the faith from that denomination.

The former comment however is true. There is no salvation outside or rather ‘without’ the Catholic Church. This is because it is the Mystical Body of Christ and the sacrament of unity for all humanity. What you seem to have missed, however, is that:

"…All men are called to be part of this catholic unity of the people of God which in promoting universal peace presages it. And there belong to or are related to it in various ways, the Catholic faithful, all who believe in Christ, and indeed the whole of mankind, for all men are called by the grace of God to salvation…

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation…"

- Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church)

All men are “related” in some way to the Catholic Church because what is important is the place of the heart, not of the body:

“…How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!..When we speak of within and without in relation to the Church, it is the position of the heart that we must consider, not that of the body… All who are within in heart are saved in the unity of the ark…”

***- Saint Augustine, Early Church Father (354–430 AD), Baptism 5:28:39 ***

By “baptism by implicit desire” we therefore mean that a person who belongs to another faith, or is of no faith, but has a good will and adheres to the natural law as engraved on their conscience is spiritually a member of the church without knowing it because their heart is with Her even if their body is not.

This is what St. Pope John Paul II was saying:

"…The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all…For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation…

Normally it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour…"

***- Blessed Pope John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (1990) ***

Note the two parts I have underlined.

Please understand Servant that what I am telling you is the official teaching of the Church. I want to make this crystal clear so that we need not return to this topic again or leave any room for the misunderstanding that has seemingly caused you pain. If you meet a Catholic who seems to suggest otherwise, I encourage you to correct them yourself in charity.

(continued)…

 

[Vouthon]

But this constant barrage of condemnation boils down to grass roots prejudice, otherwise where is it coming from?

Which pope of recent times has put a “constant barrage of condemnation” before Baha’is?

From the Baha’i online library:

bahai-library.com/newspapers/1999/110799.html

Pope Addressed by Baha’is in India

Amongst other important engagements during his state visit to India from 5-7 November 1999, Pope John Paul II, Head of the Roman Catholic Church, attended an inter-religious meeting. Against a backdrop of protests by various sectarian groups against ecumenism, this particular function had aroused keen interest.** Distinguished representatives of nine religions, including Mrs. Zena Sorabjee of the Baha’i community, shared the platform with Pope John Paul.** Many ambassadors, high- ranking government officials, political and civic leaders and intellectuals, as well as cardinals, archbishops and other senior religious dignitaries, were present at this unique event held at the prestigious Vigyan Bhavan Complex on 7 November.

The representatives of the religions were introduced to the Pope as he entered the Auditorium to a standing ovation, and as the religions represented were listed in alphabetical order, Mrs. Sorabjee, the only female representative, was the first to be introduced to the Pope. Each had two minutes in which to welcome and address him, and Mrs. Sorabjee was the last to do so. On television the Pope could be seen to be listening intently to her felicitations and address. Her speech also a appeared to make a visible impact on the audience. The Archbishop who introduced the speakers in turn thanked Mrs. Sorabjee for her lovely words. The Pope later presented the representatives with a commemorative medallion. While taking refreshments after the speeches were complete, many of those present expressed to members of the Baha’i delegation their appreciation of Mrs. Sorabjee’s words, some even requesting a copy of her address.

The presence of a large array of cameras and many members of the world’s media highlighted the importance of the event, which was telecast live throughout India, and to many other parts of the world through satellite television. It is reported that Baha’is in a number of countries, including Australia and Bangladesh, viewed the broadcast.

That the Catholic Church in India invited the Baha’is to participate in this highly important and prestigious gathering demonstrates the recognition accorded to the Faith as one of the major religions of the country. The unprecedented media publicity will open many more opportunities for the Baha’i community to interact with religious leaders of the world at inter- faith dialogues.

Or this pamphlet produced by the Catholic Church in England and Wales:

bahai-faith.manvell.org.uk/fragrant/catholic.html

In the Vatican II ‘Declaration on the relationship of the Church with Non-Christians’ we find that the Church speaks with warmth and openness and greets People of Faith as partners in a single great enterprise. These religions contain much that is good and holy and provide ways of salvation for millions of people all over the world. Throughout the documents of Vatican II we find encouragement to respect, accept and meet as friends, those who profess faiths different from our own. The Bahá’í Faith will be introduced here in this spirit…'Abdu’l-Bahá was the close companion and constant helper of his father, whose sufferings he shared…He passed away in Haifa in 1921, mourned by people of all faiths. His life was and continues to be a shining example to all

A few minutes passed and we asked if on rainy days we could possibly find shelter for the kids in the one of the rooms of the Church, since the park was very open and without shelter. He said “NO” because we are “different”

There is no prohibition on Catholic Churches being used by members of other Faiths.

Here is an illustration from the UK in 2012, when a famous Sikh leader received a papal knighthood:

peterjennings.co.uk/2012/news/an-historic-moment-in-the-life-of-the-catholic-church-archbishop-longley-invests-international-sikh-leader-a-knight-of-st-gregory-in-st-chad%E2%80%99s-cathedral/

Archbishop Longley Invests International Sikh Leader a Knight of St Gregory in St Chad’s Cathedral

History was made in the Catholic Church during a special Mass and Investiture at Metropolitan Cathedral and Basilica of St Chad, Birmingham, of Bhai Sahib Bhai Dr Mohinder Singh Ahluwalia and Mr William Ozanne, as Knights of the Pontifical Order of Pope St Gregory the Great, on Sunday 22 April 2012…

The Order of St Gregory is normally bestowed on Catholics but in rare cases it is also conferred on non-Catholics in recognition of meritorious service to the Catholic Church and the exceptional example they have set in their communities and country.

More than 120 Sikhs, from Birmingham, London, Leeds, and some who had flown from Kenya and India were present in St Chad’s Cathedral for this unique and ground-breaking event in inter-faith relations involving the Catholic Church and the Sikh faith…

In his homily Archbishop Bernard Longley said: “This is a truly joyful day for it witnesses a moment of recognition and gratitude on the part of the Catholic Church for the dedication of two men of faith for whom our city of Birmingham is their home and the base for their work. This is also a unique and historical moment in the life of this Cathedral and in the experience of the Catholic Church in England and Wales and perhaps further afield.

Watch the video on youtube (I encourage you to watch it):

youtube.com/watch?v=S3avfSkLzB8

 

[Vouthon]

If you go 7 minutes into that video you will see some Sikhs performing Kirtan - a musical religious ritual that is central to their faith - in the Church.

How many Mosques in Iran do you reckon this would happen in?

Later Bhai Mohinder Singh met Pope Francis at his inauguration ceremony:

http://anoncare.com/about/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bhai-sahib-ji-with-pope-francis.jpg

 

[marywarfield]

I’m sorry to have disappointed you and many others, maybe even the Baha’is in this thread. It was not my intention to hurt, disappoint or anger anyone.

May I ask you therefore Mary, what is the meaning to these statements you made?

I am not part of ANY Church, I am not ignorant of Christ, and I have heard of the Catholic Church.

Can you see, possibly, how your statements may be understood as me, my wife and children as not being saved? Or am I reading the entire thing incorrectly?

I am aware that the Catechism states ““Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus)”

…but I am most certainly not “inside” the church, refuse to take the Eucharist at school, never been to confession. How am I not “outside the Church”?

Please do not see this as a criticism. I am genuinely trying to understand

.

Sigh. This is true. Outside of Holy Mother Church there
is no salvation. Does this mean no one who is not baptized
and confirmed will be saved? No.
It means there is no other vehicle for salvation
except Christ who has chosen and planned to
workk through her and her only. There is no other
God, no other prophet, no other way.
You cannot effect your own salvation. Salvation
is available only with intentional or unintentional
cooperation with the Church.

I’m not going to go into all the routes that occur.
I will repeat though as I said earlier that there is
also no other vehicle for condemnation either.
It is the Church who has been given the keys to
salvation, the keys to bind or loose or if you
prefer the keys to salvation or condemnation.

The Holy Mother pleads for you and everyone else
on a daily basis. God hears her prayers. He is a just
God but not an unreasonable God.

 

[marywarfield]

If #5 is correct about Orthodox Christianity’s view of Muslims, then anathematization must also apply to Jews. I hadn’t realized Orthodox Christianity was so different from Catholicism on this issue.

Thats how I read it too. And since the requirement is also to understand that Christ is truly
present in the Eucharist that would also apply to most Protestants.
The Orthodox gate is to say the least the most narrow. Western and Eastern
Catholicism has a somewhat larger gate I guess.
Anyway yes, this issue is one of the sticking points
in schism so we still remain seperate.

 

[daler]

If you go 7 minutes into that video you will see some Sikhs performing Kirtan - a musical religious ritual that is central to their faith - in the Church.

How many Mosques in Iran do you reckon this would happen in?

Later Bhai Mohinder Singh met Pope Francis at his inauguration ceremony:

http://anoncare.com/about/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bhai-sahib-ji-with-pope-francis.jpg

Vouthon,
. Very good stuff. Very good! All of it.
. Thank you for posting

 

[Servant19]

Dear brother Servant,

I am sorry that you feel hurt and disheartened, nonetheless there must be many adherents of Catholicism that you have met who do not subscribe to such views. Why listen to anonymous people on the internet, when the Church’s teaching is so clear and says the very opposite?

The second comment is facile and not even worth acknowledgement. It has the character of a typical Fundamentalist Protestant understanding of salvation, such that I would hazard a guess that the individual is likely a fairly recent convert to the faith from that denomination.

The former comment however is true. There is no salvation outside or rather ‘without’ the Catholic Church. This is because it is the Mystical Body of Christ and the sacrament of unity for all humanity. What you seem to have missed, however, is that:

All men are “related” in some way to the Catholic Church because what is important is the place of the heart, not of the body:

By “baptism by implicit desire” we therefore mean that a person who belongs to another faith, or is of no faith, but has a good will and adheres to the natural law as engraved on their conscience is spiritually a member of the church without knowing it because their heart is with Her even if their body is not.

This is what St. Pope John Paul II was saying:

Note the two parts I have underlined.

Please understand Servant that what I am telling you is the official teaching of the Church. I want to make this crystal clear so that we need not return to this topic again or leave any room for the misunderstanding that has seemingly caused you pain. If you meet a Catholic who seems to suggest otherwise, I encourage you to correct them yourself in charity.

(continued)…

Beautiful and thank you for full clarification brother

I feel hope from your post

.

 

[Servant19]

Sigh. This is true. Outside of Holy Mother Church there
is no salvation. Does this mean no one who is not baptized
and confirmed will be saved? No.
It means there is no other vehicle for salvation
except Christ who has chosen and planned to
workk through her and her only. There is no other
God, no other prophet, no other way.
You cannot effect your own salvation. Salvation
is available only with intentional or unintentional
cooperation with the Church.

I’m not going to go into all the routes that occur.
I will repeat though as I said earlier that there is
also no other vehicle for condemnation either.
It is the Church who has been given the keys to
salvation, the keys to bind or loose or if you
prefer the keys to salvation or condemnation.

The Holy Mother pleads for you and everyone else
on a daily basis. God hears her prayers. He is a just
God but not an unreasonable God.

Thank you angel. Your clarification is clearly understood now with this post.

God bless you!

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[Servant19]

Which pope of recent times has put a “constant barrage of condemnation” before Baha’is?

Dear brother. If you notice I was referring to the grassroots realities that I encountered with Father Nicholas. Of course the Pope has not condemned the Baha’is, but why would this love respect and support for all those who are “spiritually a member of the church” not extend to one of the local Catholic Churches?

This is my primary cause of sadness. I remember talking to Father Nicholas about how in Bahai Temples all adherents of all Faiths will find solace, their Holy Books present and an encouragement to worship God in their own way. I was hinting that this is what the Catholic Church should be doing (not knowing, of course what I read from your posts above).

Why would Father Nicholas not be privy to this all-embracing approach of the Church???

God bless you brother. You are incarnate light!!



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