only one correct religion with the truth?

[Servant19]

I am sorry–I did not see where she offered to die in the place of another person?

Who is the person whose life she saved?

She does sound like a beautiful, gentle, kind soul, though.

Thankyou dear sister PR.

I acknowledge fully the noble heights of faith that Blessed Saint Kolbe reached. These are wonderful and inspiring historical memoirs for our children to learn from.

I certainly am not here to provide a form of “Baha’is are better than Catholics” competition. I would be saddened if this is where we are heading. It certainly is not my intention.

If you wish me to share some of the stories recollected in Renee Szanto-Felbermann’s book Rebirth then I am happy to do so for you (not to show off the sacrifices of Baha’is towards strangers in Nazi Germany, but as an inner response to your desire to read about the victories of the Holy Spirit)

The point is this, if I may get us back on track. If you were God, would you not provide the guidance to draw human beings towards Him, should it be their longing desire? Of course you would.

Now, if you were God, would you not also send a Person to guide mankind in this manner? Of course you would.

Why then would you leave mankind from receiving this guidance from a Person forever and ever? Why would you then guide mankind, through its evolving changes and needs and exigencies, in the hands of men?

Now I know you are trying to tell me that these men are guided by the Holy Spirit, but how do you know?

Now I know that you will then say that this is the Faith handed down from 2000 years, but there is no indication of some of the teachings written in Vatican II (for example) in the writings of the early Church Fathers. (for example compare Adversus Judaeos by Chrysostom with Nostra Aetate) So how do you know that the teachings resulting from Vatican II (even though I think Vatican II is as close to the Baha’i teachings as it gets ) are what God wants for the world, since they came from men, and not one Man, as has been the way God does things throughout history?

Thankyou dear friend

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[lynnvinc]

Here is the film I spoke of, which gives a terrific apologetics re why Christianity is the only correct religion with the truth – The Perfect Stranger. See youtube.com/watch?v=XPPwQApwBsA

The part that gets into that apologetics starts around 16:20 & esp around 17:20.

Now, as mentioned, there are a few minor quibbles with this movie for Catholics, and I have a few minor issues, but for the most part it gives a very good insight into why Jesus is the one true way and is a tremendous film. It really speaks to my heart, and it might be helpful for those who have fallen away from Christianity due to personal issues. It might not speak to non-Christians.

It’s really too bad that so many Christians are so … unchristian to the extent of making people think Christianity is not a good (or not the true) religion.

 

[PRmerger]

Thankyou dear sister PR.

I acknowledge fully the noble heights of faith that Blessed Saint Kolbe reached. These are wonderful and inspiring historical memoirs for our children to learn from.

I certainly am not here to provide a form of “Baha’is are better than Catholics” competition. I would be saddened if this is where we are heading. It certainly is not my intention.

Nor is it mine.

However, in response to my question regarding a Bahai who has given his/her life up out of love for another, you gave me some references.

They did not seem to fit the criteria I had asked for.

Thus, I am asking: what is the name of the person(s) whose life these Bahais died in lieu of?

That is not a difficult question.

 

[PRmerger]

Why then would you leave mankind from receiving this guidance from a Person forever and ever? Why would you then guide mankind, through its evolving changes and needs and exigencies, in the hands of men?

This demonstrates an impoverished understanding of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, and of the Sacraments, which are an infinite source of Him, flowing into the hearts, minds, and souls of the Faithful.

The answer to your question above is: God* did l*eave mankind with Person forever and ever.

You just have divorced yourself from this Person by not being united to His Body.

 

[Counterpoint]

I really don’t think it’s morally right for any one religion to say they are the only true religion and that everyone else is wrong. If any one religion claims to be the only truth, then they must surely be a lie? What do you think?

I am inclined to agree with you. May the Force go with you.

 

[PRmerger]

I am inclined to agree with you. May the Force go with you.

Surely there can be a religion that has one correct truth, yes?

 

[Servant19]

Nor is it mine.

However, in response to my question regarding a Bahai who has given his/her life up out of love for another, you gave me some references.

They did not seem to fit the criteria I had asked for.

Thus, I am asking: what is the name of the person(s) whose life these Bahais died in lieu of?

That is not a difficult question.

I looked through the book, and there is no name with an incident where a Bahai prisoner who was put into the starvation confinements, and he had been hiding a carrot, saving it for a moment where he may desperately need it (he had got this carrot from before is starvation punishment). He was on his last legs and gave the carrot to one of the other prisoners who went on to survive. The Bahai died.

This story is recounted by Feldermann after meeting the boy (who later became a Bahai himself I hear, but not stated in the book) some time later. The Baha’is name is not disclosed probably because the boy never got to know it, I’m not sure.



.

 

[Servant19]

This demonstrates an impoverished understanding of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, and of the Sacraments, which are an infinite source of Him, flowing into the hearts, minds, and souls of the Faithful.

The answer to your question above is: God* did l*eave mankind with Person forever and ever.

You just have divorced yourself from this Person by not being united to His Body.

I’m not sure I understand sister PR

Are you saying that the Eucharist can guide mankind through the needs and exigencies, trials and tribulations it is suffering from today?

How does the Eucharist guide me for example to resolve some of the problems of indigenous oppression in my community?

.

 

[Matthew_Light]

My reading of the Gospels and New Testament, such as the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37), Matthew 7:21, Mark 12:31, John 5:39 and 1 Corinthians Chapter 13 is that God doesn’t care much about our religion - He cares about our hearts and that we see and treat others with love.

Luke 10:25-37 particularly addresses religious membership, since at the time of Jesus’ ministry religious membership and ethnicity were considered one and the same thing.

What I believe God cares about most is that we are in tune with God’s spiritual message for our age - which in this Day means working for the equality of the races, the end of slavery, social and economic justice, the end of religious violence, strife and enmity, and the cessation of warfare. These are all areas where we see the Catholic Church and Popes such as Pope Francis being of such enormous service - in the name and the spirit of Jesus Christ, for the benefit of the world of humanity.

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[Matthew_Light]

I
How does the Eucharist guide me for example to resolve some of the problems of indigenous oppression in my community?

.

I see Pope Francis doing enormously important work to help guide the human race towards God’s Cause for this day - which is the realization of the unity of the human race.

His words and deeds are a beautiful inspiration to people of good will, both in the Catholic Church, and in every other faith and belief.

Of spiritual leaders such as Pope Francis Baha’u’llah has written:

“Those divines…who are truly adorned with the ornament of knowledge and of a goodly character are, verily, as a head to the body of the world, and as eyes to the nations. The guidance of men hath, at all times, been and is dependent upon these blessed souls.” And again: “The divine whose conduct is upright, and the sage who is just, are as the spirit unto the body of the world. Well is it with that divine whose head is attired with the crown of justice, and whose temple is adorned with the ornament of equity.” “Respect ye the divines amongst you, they whose acts conform to the knowledge they possess, who observe the statutes of God, and decree the things God hath decreed in the Book. Know ye that they are the lamps of guidance betwixt earth and heaven. They that have no consideration for the position and merit of the divines amongst them have, verily, altered the bounty of God vouchsafed unto them.”

 

[Protector]

Judas Thaddeus;11589415]
Very recommended video:
youtube.com/watch?v=MZ5tEzXxSvs

Very catchy video Judas Thaddeus. I enjoyed it. However, displayed on that same web page was the following from Pastor Mark Finlay who asks the question, “Why so many denominations?”

youtube.com/watch?v=NHcR2Q13rD8

Protector.

 

[PRmerger]

I looked through the book, and there is no name with an incident where a Bahai prisoner who was put into the starvation confinements, and he had been hiding a carrot, saving it for a moment where he may desperately need it (he had got this carrot from before is starvation punishment). He was on his last legs and gave the carrot to one of the other prisoners who went on to survive. The Bahai died.

This story is recounted by Feldermann after meeting the boy (who later became a Bahai himself I hear, but not stated in the book) some time later. The Baha’is name is not disclosed probably because the boy never got to know it, I’m not sure.



.

Well, that’s more like it.

I would reserve the right to substantiate this story before I make any judgements, however.

Is it not entirely possible that this was a, to use your words, “magic show”?

Originally posted by Servant: If the magic show is what your after, there’s plenty of magic. Personally, I find the magic show of seeing a person transform from a gnat into an eagle far far more awe-inspiring. Sure beats walking on water for me. Just my own personal opinion

Now, I trust that you will not find this disrespectful to the memory of this great sacrifice made by the noble Bahai, as you have made the same reference of a “magic show” in reference to our great and divine Master, Jesus.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, that’s more like it.

I would reserve the right to substantiate this story before I make any judgements, however.

Is it not entirely possible that this was a, to use your words, “magic show”?

Now, I trust that you will not find this disrespectful to the memory of this great sacrifice made by the noble Bahai, as you have made the same reference of a “magic show” in reference to our great and divine Master, Jesus.

Actually, I retract the above example.

Even though the inflammatory words are by Servant, regarding our most holy Lord and Master’s walking on water, I think it is in poor taste to offer that as an example of why I reserve judgement about this sacrificial event made by a Bahai.

Rather, I will use some different words by Servant and use the same paradigm to explain why I doubt the story of this sacrificial Bahai.

So, I’m gauging that you have total faith in the historical value of Gospel, which has several historical inaccuracies. This is fine, as long as you are aware that the writers had the sustainablility of the Christian religion as a foremost priority, amongst a savage community of Jews and Gentiles, who leveraged large chunks of their belief systems on superstitions and myths, the more astounding and awe-inspiring, the better.

So, I am gauging the story written about a Bahai as having little sustainability, because it leveraged large chunks of your belief system on superstition and myths, the more astounding and awe-inspiring, the better.

Secondly, by what basis do you trust the testimonies of the Church Fathers, many of whom never met Christ?

And on what basis should I trust the testimony of this person, who doesn’t even name the Bahai in question?

Thirdly, what extra-biblical sources are you referring to that provide verifiable history in relation to Jesus’ life?

Is there some extra-Bahai source that can verify this story?

I see it as a reasonable way if it had just one non-Christian verification. Outside of Christian texts there is nothing about Jesus’ miracles and physical resurrection, nor of the several saints who were resurrected at the same time as Jesus’ resurrection. You’d think the Romans who were remarkably good record keepers would at least mention, just once, the fact that all these dead bodies had been resurrected?

I would see it as reasonable if it had one just non-Bahai verification of this story. Outside of Bahai texts, there is nothing written about this story. You’d think that some Germans, who were remarkably good record keepers would at least mention, just once, the fact that this Bahai gave a carrot to another person and died because of it?

Outside of any verification, I see your justification for the Divinity of Jesus as very theologically thin, and lacking depth

Outside of any verification I see your justification for the sacrifice of this person as very historically thin and lacking depth.

 

[PRmerger]

I’m not sure I understand sister PR

Are you saying that the Eucharist can guide mankind through the needs and exigencies, trials and tribulations it is suffering from today?

How does the Eucharist guide me for example to resolve some of the problems of indigenous oppression in my community?

.

I am saying that Christ is Present in all the Tabernacles of the World, in every corner of the planet, and unites with Catholics in the most Holy Eucharist at every hour of the day, from the rising of the sun to its setting.

How magnificent is that??

Once you understand that, Servant, it makes your question “Why then would you leave mankind from receiving this guidance from a Person forever and ever?” superfluous.

 

[Servant19]

Well, that’s more like it.

I would reserve the right to substantiate this story before I make any judgements, however.

Is it not entirely possible that this was a, to use your words, “magic show”?

Are you sure of what you are saying PR???

Take a deep breath please sister. I feel you need to gather yourself

There’s nothing magical about the giving of a carrot to another starving person. Its spiritual fortitude and faith, not bending the laws of nature…

This is a book written in our time, not intended to give symbolic meaning, but a “memoir”. Its either a historical fact or a blatant lie. I have no reason to believe that this lady should write a book of memoirs filled with made up stories.

We live in a literary time where books about history can be verified as such. We would be questioning the truth of all autobiographies, biographies as well, if that was the case.

Now, I trust that you will not find this disrespectful to the memory of this great sacrifice made by the noble Bahai, as you have made the same reference of a “magic show” in reference to our great and divine Master, Jesus.

The magic show was displayed by Jesus, the Bab and Baha’u’llah, but I stand behind the reality that the real magic, that which really counts, is what happens to Their adherents when applying Their teachings. That’s the REAL Truth

.

 

[PRmerger]

Are you sure of what you are saying PR???

Take a deep breath please sister. I feel you need to gather yourself

There’s nothing magical about the giving of a carrot to another starving person. Its spiritual fortitude and faith, not bending the laws of nature…

This is a book written in our time, not intended to give symbolic meaning, but a “memoir”. Its either a historical fact or a blatant lie. I have no reason to believe that this lady should write a book of memoirs filled with made up stories.

We live in a literary time where books about history can be verified as such. We would be questioning the truth of all autobiographies, biographies as well, if that was the case.

The magic show was displayed by Jesus, the Bab and Baha’u’llah, but I stand behind the reality that the real magic, that which really counts, is what happens to Their adherents when applying Their teachings. That’s the REAL Truth

.

Dear friend, I am only offering the same criteria that you demanded as “proof” of Christianity.

I, too, want “proof” of your assertion.

I see that the book which you referenced was written by a Bahai publisher.

I would like to see some non-Bahai verification of this story.

Outside of this (1) Bahai text there is nothing written about anyone giving a carrot up for another in order to save his life. (Please note there are 4 gospel accounts by different authors of the Resurrection, so it would only seem fair for me to ask for 4 accounts of this story by other witnesses, but I am not asking for that.)

And also something from the Germans, who were notoriously good record keepers. One would think that there would be at least one mention of it, just one, in the newspapers?

As you so correctly state, this is a relatively modern story, so how about a newspaper link to this story by a unbiased German reporter?

And these requests from me come only from a reference from you.

Thirdly, what extra-biblical sources are you referring to that provide verifiable history in relation to Jesus’ life?

I see it as a reasonable way if it had just one non-Christian verification.

Outside of Christian texts there is nothing about Jesus’ miracles and physical resurrection, nor of the several saints who were resurrected at the same time as Jesus’ resurrection.

You’d think the Romans who were remarkably good record keepers would at least mention, just once, the fact that all these dead bodies had been resurrected?

 

[Servant19]

Actually, I retract the above example.

Even though the inflammatory words are by Servant, regarding our most holy Lord and Master’s walking on water, I think it is in poor taste to offer that as an example of why I reserve judgement about this sacrificial event made by a Bahai.

Rather, I will use some different words by Servant and use the same paradigm to explain why I doubt the story of this sacrificial Bahai.

So, I am gauging the story written about a Bahai as having little sustainability, because it leveraged large chunks of your belief system on superstition and myths, the more astounding and awe-inspiring, the better.

And on what basis should I trust the testimony of this person, who doesn’t even name the Bahai in question?

Is there some extra-Bahai source that can verify this story?

I would see it as reasonable if it had one just non-Bahai verification of this story. Outside of Bahai texts, there is nothing written about this story. You’d think that some Germans, who were remarkably good record keepers would at least mention, just once, the fact that this Bahai gave a carrot to another person and died because of it?

Outside of any verification I see your justification for the sacrifice of this person as very historically thin and lacking depth.

LOL

Please, don’t believe the story. It would be a lot better for your soul to see it all as a lie.

It absolutely is a lie, the word “carrot” actually means “asparagus” and the word “starvation” actually means a “feast”

Bon apetit!

You are comparing apples with oranges. I’ll leave it at that dear sister.

.

 

[Servant19]

Dear friend, I am only offering the same criteria that you demanded as “proof” of Christianity.

I, too, want “proof” of your assertion.

I see that the book which you referenced was written by a Bahai publisher.

I would like to see some non-Bahai verification of this story.

Outside of this (1) Bahai text there is nothing written about anyone giving a carrot up for another in order to save his life. (Please note there are 4 gospel accounts by different authors of the Resurrection, so it would only seem fair for me to ask for 4 accounts of this story by other witnesses, but I am not asking for that.)

And also something from the Germans, who were notoriously good record keepers. One would think that there would be at least one mention of it, just one, in the newspapers?

As you so correctly state, this is a relatively modern story, so how about a newspaper link to this story by a unbiased German reporter?

And these requests from me come only from a reference from you.

But dear sister, can you not see that my faith does not revolve around these things AT ALL

Why do you insist in trying to pretend that it does and disproving it. Are you just having fun?

Please sister, I asked some questions which was the original subject of our dialogue but you are stuck on this thing.

In fact, I don’t believe that this happened. There was no names used, and it all sounds suspicious to me.

I certainly am very much impressed with Blessed Kolbe, he has a name, his story is verified by the Jews and I love his dedication and fortitude. But will I become Catholic because of it. Nope…I am a Baha’i for very clear and obvious reasons. Lets focus on those things

.

 

[PRmerger]

LOL

Please, don’t believe the story. It would be a lot better for your soul to see it all as a lie.

It absolutely is a lie, the word “carrot” actually means “asparagus” and the word “starvation” actually means a “feast”

Bon apetit!

You are comparing apples with oranges. I’ll leave it at that dear sister.

.

Then, dear friend, sadly, I will have to stand by my assertion that there is nothing in the Bahai faith that prepares you for a life of sacrificial love as well as Catholicism.

Which was my original point.

But I hope you can see how inconsistent your position is.

You doubt the resurrection because it was not written by a non-Christian and you ask for “just one” verification from a Roman (who were “notoriously good record keepers”), but are simply not up to the task to do the same for my request, using your very own criteria.

 

[Servant19]

Then, dear friend, sadly, I will have to stand by my assertion that there is nothing in the Bahai faith that prepares you for a life of sacrificial love as well as Catholicism.

Which was my original point.

But I hope you can see how inconsistent your position is.

You doubt the resurrection because it was not written by a non-Christian and you ask for “just one” verification from a Roman (who were “notoriously good record keepers”), but are simply not up to the task to do the same for my request, using your very own criteria.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ohb3w7GL1qa6ipw.gif

So you are saying that when all the saints rose from the dead and roamed the streets that the only record of such an occurrence is found in the Gospels and no other records of such an earth-shattering occasion was kept by “any other person” ??

This is no “carrot exchange” PR!

But the Romans recorded the contents and properties of each and every subject in their Empire because that’s the really good stuff to record historically…



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