Open to life vs. contraception... Is there a middle ground?

[ruizmorelos]

Hi. So… I’m a practicing catholic in a relationship with a “cafeteria catholic”, you may say. And we’re having trouble discussing the matter of how will we handle our marriage in the sex department. For myself, I insist that contraception is not an option (because of natural law and so on…) and she kinda agrees that it’s a good thing, and although she’s not totally convinced, she’s willing to try. She’s been worrying about what will happen if for whatever reason NFP does not work for us, would there be another option? My first instinct was to say “no”, but now she feels like I’m not open to change and take her needs into account…

I’ve been thinking about it and it seems that maybe, as a husband, it would be on me to carry that cross, since I’m the one pushing it; so maybe, in that case, if during intercourse I withhold the orgasm I may be able to fulfill my duty as a catholic and a husband… but I’m not sure… I’ll apreciate your help and insight.

 

[DivineMercy01]

She’s been worrying about what will happen if for whatever reason NFP does not work for us, would there be another option?

I spoke to an expert on this topic years ago because I had the same question: what if NFP doesn’t work? What if we try to abstain and still get pregnant with a child we are not ready for or cannot afford?

Here is what she told me:

1. NFP has a higher success rate than contraception, so you are more likely to get unexpectedly pregnant if contracepting
2. Part of practicing natural family planning is being open to creating life every time you “renew your vows,” so to speak. So in this sense, Natural Family Planning always works. You may conceive a child during a time you are trying to abstain. That child might not be one that you “planned” but God is the author of life and he will give you the grace to figure it out.

Also, it is important that you discuss this with your priest before using NFP to abstain. Many Catholics don’t know this, but married couples are only supposed to be avoiding a pregnancy for “grave reasons.” The church doesn’t give a whole lot of guidance on what constitutes a “grave” reason, but I can imagine a grave reason is something along the lines of “financially supporting another child will throw our family into destitution” not “I would rather buy a boat than have another child right now.”

As a side note: I have heard of some misguided priests giving “permission” to married couples to use contraception. I am unsure what the circumstances were, but I strongly recommend not asking for such “permissions” if you want to live a life of virtue.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

and although she’s not totally convinced, she’s willing to try.

So…what’s the problem?

if for whatever reason NFP does not work for us, would there be another option?

If NFP doesn’t work…your wife will become pregnant. What need is there for another option at that point.

married couples are only supposed to be avoiding a pregnancy for “grave reasons.”

Where do you get “grave reasons” from? The Catechism says “just reasons”.

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation . For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

Humana Vitae says “well-grounded reasons”.

If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained.

 

[ruizmorelos]

Thank you…the “NFP always works” really helps… And I really do get the “grave reasons” part
But really the core of my doubt is in the second paragraph, is it licit to withhold orgasm?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

No, it’s not.
Also, there’s a high risk you won’t succeed in your goal.
So just forget about doing that.

 

[AdamP88]

Are you already married or considering marriage?

but now she feels like I’m not open to change and take her needs into account…

Why should you be open to change on issues of morality?

if during intercourse I withhold the orgasm I may be able to fulfill my duty as a catholic and a husband…

You can’t do this. This would be described as “obstructing the purpose of the marital act” and is grave matter.

 

[Anicette]

Hi!

To be realistic: it is up to the woman to carry the self observation. If she is not motivated a lot before, or lost interest, or is now againts (because of a pregnancy, or because she don’t like asbtinence), there is very few an husband can do… apart abstaining completely.

What are your personal conviction about sexual morality and contraception? Is it really important? Can you make a weeding vow knowing there is a good chance that you will practice NFP only for a time but not for all your fertile years? Because apart moral convictions, many people use NFP for a time only, when they don’t see any other suitable alternative for them.

What are your compatibility with other topics such as abortion, prenatal screening, IVF, end of life issues, religious attendance, child rearing,religious education etc?

If you are not sure… well you still have the choice!

 

[Anicette]

NFP has a higher success rate than contraception, so you are more likely to get unexpectedly pregnant if contracepting

No, it is only true IF people accept long time of abstinence every cycle. So that they minimise risks. Many people think they can have a minimal time of abstinence and a higher rate of success than contraception. It is wrong. And some long term methods have higher rate of sucess tha natural method because there cannot be pregnancy rate due to not optimal use of the method or interpretation.

This argument should not be use! False and it if a person is very motivated by sucess rate, she can left the method as soon as she feel uncertain of it!

Thank you…the “NFP always works” really helps…

That’s false/ it not ALWAYS works. NFP babies exists… such as contraception babies.

is it licit to withhold orgasm?

In history, before NFP, some moral theologian/casuistic have said this optioncan be permissible in some case.
It is not the interpretation that Pope Pius X had chosen, nor it is an option that is present or defend in the Current Church Teaching.

In all case it is not prudent to enter a marriage with thinking of such a card. Hardly see who can it be a long term option, even biologically. Do you really want to live your sexuality like that, with unutural self restrain forever? Not sure that your wife would agree…

 

[ruizmorelos]

That’s false/ it not ALWAYS works. NFP babies exists… such as contraception babies.

Yes, Thanks for clarifying. But I meant it in the sense of the original response: as in NFP helping live and renew the marital vows. I’m aware (partialy-since I’ve never done it practicly) of the difficulties and challenges it posts as a means for not geting pregnant. What DivineMercy01 was suggesting is that it’s not the only thing NFP does; and in that I apreciate greatly the more broad perspective on it.

 

[Anicette]

ruizmorelos:

and although she’s not totally convinced, she’s willing to try.

So…what’s the problem?

Depend on where the OP stand.

It is not a problem is they both willing to try. (that’s mean start but switch plan if they feel frustrated or feel it doesn’t work. Probably for contraception.

It is not a problem if they both willing to try, but accept total abstinence or babies if it does not work for them.

It is a problem is one is willing to try, and for the other, it is NFP, or as alternative don’t try to avoid children or abstinence. Such as our Church instruct us.

The last scenario may lead to a very serious marital crisis. The topic is not to taken lightly.

 

[Gilly_flower]

At the end of the day the chief burden of a failure in NFP is borne by the wife - so realistically, if you find yourself with more babies than you can, for whatever reason, cope with, do not be surprised if your wife decides it is not for her…The moral high ground is very easy to occupy when you aren’t the one actually having a baby every year…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Your comment seems to imply that NFP has a lot of “failures”. When done correctly, NFP does not have a lot of “failures”.

The issue here is that the prospective wife doesn’t seem to want to use NFP and is complaining that her prospective husband does. Given that she’s a cafeteria Catholic, if the husband is devout I’m not seeing a whole lot of hope for this pairing anyway.

 

[Gilly_flower]

In theory, with perfect use, NFP can indeed be relatively reliable…but in practice - a whole different matter- its faIlure rate is more realistically judged to be around 25 per cent…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My understanding is the failure rate is because people don’t use it correctly, which is also the case with a lot of other forms of artificial birth control.

If the wife is not motivated to use NFP then it’s less likely it will be used correctly. Which is another reason this “cafeteria Catholic” woman is a bad risk for a marriage to a devout Catholic husband. Already she’s trying to guilt him about his beliefs. Toxic IMHO.

 

[Gilly_flower]

That was my point exactly… If used perfectly NFP can be successful in spacing births but frail human beings acting in the heat of the moment don’t always behave perfectly…and if even a single failure has a 25 per cent chance of pregnancy that may well be an outcome that an overburdened mother would not wish to risk…and as the burden of repeated pregnancy will take its toll on her, not her husband, he would be wise to prepare for some debate on the subject…

 

[AdamP88]

In theory, with perfect use, NFP can indeed be relatively reliable…but in practice - a whole different matter- its faIlure rate is more realistically judged to be around 25 per cent…

The failure rate of all contraceptives is calculated using “perfect use” as the benchmark. You can’t decide that NFP doesn’t work because some people don’t use it properly. That’s not an issue with the method, but with the user. We don’t say condoms have a 25% failure rate if 25% of people don’t use them correctly. If we’re discussing it as a form of family planning, then we need to hold it to the same standard as other methods that can be used.

 

[AdamP88]

If the wife is not motivated to use NFP then it’s less likely it will be used correctly. Which is another reason this “cafeteria Catholic” woman is a bad risk for a marriage to a devout Catholic husband. Already she’s trying to guilt him about his beliefs. Toxic IMHO.

This is the bottom line. If she’s already trying to send him on a guilt trip about his beliefs, then it will only get worse.

 

[Anicette]

I don’t agree to call a baby a burden of a failure of NFP. It is very offensive to said that.

and if even a single failure has a 25 per cent chance of pregnancy

People are not in average so fertile. The failure rate is given for a year, not a single sex act.
And the typical use of motivated people whith an observation based method and formation is far less than 25%.

The moral high ground is very easy to occupy when you aren’t the one actually having a baby every year…

Very unlikely that a cafeteria catholic will have a baby every year if she don’t wish it. (yes “cafeteria” it is the issue.
It may have been right 60 years ago when there is not a lot of alternatives to natural methods if her husband want to continue to have sex. Not now with a woman who believe in contraception. (yes, that’s the problem here).

Do you really think that an average woman, who will have between 1 to 3 children will have a baby every year because of a morality she doesn’t believe? Hardly possible!

And why one baby every year? Breasteeding allow often more fertility delay than that. If people are serious about avoiding a child they can abstain some time after a birth. Or they can use contraception if they believe in it.

The burden of children is not carried only by the mother but impact the father also. And a father who don’t want it would probbaly not let this happening.

 

[Gilly_flower]

The problem is that NFP is so very much more difficult to use “perfectly” than, for example, simply taking a daily pill…health issues, age, giving birth, waking nights, breast feeding, irregular periods and a host of other variables including lack of readily available instruction all contribute to a “real life” scenario where one in four women can expect to get pregnant using it…So I think the OP must consider whether this is a “deal breaker” as far as his relationship is concerned because it seems to me extremely unlikely that a non-committed wife is going to go down the NFP route for her entire marriage…

 

[Anicette]

all contribute to a “real life” scenario where one in four women can expect to get pregnant using it

Again wrong. You will not find serious statistics (even thoses of WOrld Health Organization), that’s mean systematic studies on one method at a time who would conclude to a “typical use failure rate” of 25% of women pregnant for one year.

I agree that the lack of options of formations around us is a big problems for many of us. And also a lack of knowlege of the existing ressources on our territory by medical staff, including a lack of knowlege and support.

There are methods that involve material that give more lisibility of fertility , but they are very costy. So they are only for a minority of priviledge people, and it’s against the spirit of cost-free methods.

the OP must consider whether this is a “deal breaker” as far as his relationship is concerned because it seems to me extremely unlikely that a non-committed wife is going to go down the NFP route for her entire marriage…

I agree. That’s what i am saying. It is very unlikely that a non-commited woman would use NFP only for an entire marriage. For secular people, FAM is more likely coupled with barriers contraceptive and often a default position, because they don’t find something else…When they would think it requiere sacrifice motivation is likely to vanished.