1
1ke
Guest
I disagree with your assessment regarding the convalidation of the marriage, and I suggest the OP and her husband talk to a priest and/or a canon lawyer.
- Status
D
Dan_Grelinger
Guest
If the Catholic Church teaches truth, then these circumstances would indicate that there has been no true marriage entered into.
An attempt was made to ‘contract’ a marriage, and civily it was considered to have been ‘contracted’, but the Church’s intent is to teach what is really so, in the eyes of God.
Dan
C
cargopilot
Guest
Actorgirl, I want you to know that you are in my prayers. I imagine that this thread has been very emotional for you and I fully understand why you would react with some degree of hostility toward me and other posters. The messenger is often shot.
On the other hand, I can’t see any benefit to sugar-coat the truth. Yes, you are civilly married afforded all the benefits of the state, but that’s where it all stops. You do not have a sacramental marriage. When I said earlier that your Catholic husband was still free to marry, that’s absolutely true. Should you divorce, and he subsequently desires to marry another in the Church, he’s good to go.
You mention that he regularly participates in Mass and that’s good, but it is unlikely that he is in a state of grace, so he should avoid tacking on still more mortal sin and refrain from receiving the precious Body of Christ unworthily. Further, he should celebrate the sacrament of reconciliation often, as should all Catholics.
You asked, perhaps rhetorically, why your husband didn’t know these things. I don’t know, but I believe there are several possibilities, First and most likely, he simply just didn’t know. So many Catholics are so poorly taught, or fed mis-information by dissident Catholics, that deep ignorance runs rampant. If he didn’t know, he didn’t know and once learning the truth, he will seek to quickly regularize his marriage with you.
Perhaps he DID know and decided for one reason or another, didn’t want the permanence of a sacramental marriage, at this time. Maybe he’s concerned that you’re not Catholic and given your differences with the Church, may never become Catholic and wanted an ‘out’. Perhaps your personal differences with his faith hold a clue. There could be other reasons, too. I just don’t know, but I do know this, a Catholic who knowingly invalidly marries outside of the Church to a non-Catholic has a tremendous advantage over the other party. (At least in this lifetime.)
You seem to desire the completeness of regularizing your marriage. As hard as all of this is to swallow, I pray that you maintain the strength to press on towards a sacramental marriage. You have much discernment and learning on your journey ahead, and you won’t like many of the truths you will find along the way, but the good far, far outweighs the bad.
On the other hand, I can’t see any benefit to sugar-coat the truth. Yes, you are civilly married afforded all the benefits of the state, but that’s where it all stops. You do not have a sacramental marriage. When I said earlier that your Catholic husband was still free to marry, that’s absolutely true. Should you divorce, and he subsequently desires to marry another in the Church, he’s good to go.
You mention that he regularly participates in Mass and that’s good, but it is unlikely that he is in a state of grace, so he should avoid tacking on still more mortal sin and refrain from receiving the precious Body of Christ unworthily. Further, he should celebrate the sacrament of reconciliation often, as should all Catholics.
You asked, perhaps rhetorically, why your husband didn’t know these things. I don’t know, but I believe there are several possibilities, First and most likely, he simply just didn’t know. So many Catholics are so poorly taught, or fed mis-information by dissident Catholics, that deep ignorance runs rampant. If he didn’t know, he didn’t know and once learning the truth, he will seek to quickly regularize his marriage with you.
Perhaps he DID know and decided for one reason or another, didn’t want the permanence of a sacramental marriage, at this time. Maybe he’s concerned that you’re not Catholic and given your differences with the Church, may never become Catholic and wanted an ‘out’. Perhaps your personal differences with his faith hold a clue. There could be other reasons, too. I just don’t know, but I do know this, a Catholic who knowingly invalidly marries outside of the Church to a non-Catholic has a tremendous advantage over the other party. (At least in this lifetime.)
You seem to desire the completeness of regularizing your marriage. As hard as all of this is to swallow, I pray that you maintain the strength to press on towards a sacramental marriage. You have much discernment and learning on your journey ahead, and you won’t like many of the truths you will find along the way, but the good far, far outweighs the bad.
A
actorgirl
Guest
The only reason for my hostility towards you was your quotes which I found insulting
OK and?
Wow. what an assumption. He is not concerned in the least a that I will never become Catholic.
in what way
I desire to have a wedding with friends and family. Seeing that my husband is Catholic I opted for a Catholic ceremony. no other reason but that. Because he is Catholic and my son will be (and if he decides he no longer want s to be, so be it) I “read up” on it…
C
cargopilot
Guest
I understand and apologize for my bluntness. I do ask that you at least attempt to understand that as Catholics, we consider marriage to be a sacrament. I don’t expect you to know what that means, only to realize that for us, a Catholic who attempts marriage outside the Church isn’t really married. Again, I mean no offense, but after all, your situation is what it is and you did come here with questions.
For the Catholic who attempts marriage outside the Church, in the event of a civil divorce, there’s no need for the Catholic party to seek a declaration of nullity to marry again, since no valid marriage ever occurred.
It’s no assumption and I’m not implying that this is true in your case. Only a description of possibilities. OK, so he couldn’t care less that you will never become Catholic, but what happens if the day comes that his Catholic faith does become important in his life? Marriage is tough enough, I have no doubt that mixed-marriages are even tougher.
Considering the risk of infuriating you further, I’m just going to leave this one alone, for now. Perhaps you could just “read up” on this and draw your own conclusions.
OK, so it’s really just for ‘show’ and no other reason. Clearly, I just over estimated the importance of the sacramental nature in this particular case, when the primary concern is to have the ‘presentation’ of a Church wedding. Even though you “read up on it”, I find it very challenging to believe proper Catholic formation of your child is possible. Why bother?
A
actorgirl
Guest
I understand that. That is your truth as a Catholic. I hope I’m misinterpreting, but you aren’t saying that unless one gets married in the Catholic church, they aren’t really married are you.
.
Whether are not our marriage is annulled or ends in any other way, I’d still be bummed
,
His Faith is VERY important to him. That’s one of the things I admired about him. As far as mixed marriaged go. If we have no problem with the he being white and me being black, I think we will be just fine.
I’m sorry if you took the phrase “read up” badly (boy you love those quotes don’t you) All I meant was that if my husband and especially my child, are going to be Catholic why wouldn’t I do research.
So some extent there is an element of show. but that can be said for most weddings. Otherwise people would just get married with two people a priest and a witness or two. I would love to declare my love for my husband outside, but I know you can’t of it’s going to be a Catholic ceremony.
There are those fun quotes again. Didn’t you say you were a convert. Didn’t you read up on it
Perhaps you would be incapable of doing so. But it is not for you to believe.
L
Listener
Guest
Reading this post confirmed my suspicion that many people who post here are very, very conservative. If this were not the case, then why on earth would there be a category for “Traditional Catholicism?” All of the Catholics I know simply go to Mass on Sunday. Mass is in English, as it has been for the last 40 years.
If I was the person who started this thread, I would be feeling very discouraged, and I would not be feeling the love of Christ.
A person who is not Catholic is certainly not expected to be married in the Catholic Church. I think it is wonderful that the poster is willing to do so for the sake of her husband, who is a Catholic trying to get himself back in good standing with the Church. You are definitely legally married according to the laws of the state. The Catholic Church defines marriage differently than the state does. In the Catholic Church, marriage is a Sacrament. To me, it is a little like apples and oranges. The state defines marriage as an “apple” (a legal contract), and the Church defines marriage as an “orange” (a covenant that lasts a lifetime). If a Catholic tells your husband he isn’t really married, they mean that he never had the kind of wedding ceremony that the Catholic church requires for a Catholic. That is where we get the statement, “He isn’t married in the eyes of the Church.” He is definitely married in the eyes of the state, since he would obviously have to get a divorce if he wanted to marry someone else.
As far as being “open to life,” a statement like that could mean different things to different people. If you were not “open to life,” how on earth could you already have a child? It is really kind of ridiculous, if you think about it. It is definitely not appropriate for people on a forum like this to decide whether or not you are “open to life.” If there are any questions about this, they should be discussed with the priest who plans to bless your marriage.
If I were you, I would just go through whatever steps and red tape it took in order to please my husband. Since he apparently wants to be in good standing with the Catholic church, your going along with him in this area will ease his conscience. The whole thing is really pretty simple. I have seen marriages blessed by a priest after an ordinary Catholic Mass with just two official witnesses and a handful of people! The whole thing took about 5 minutes.
I think you are probably making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. You certainly have no obligation to become a Catholic unless that is what you feel you are called to do, but to have your marriage blessed by the Catholic Church for the sake of your husband would be a loving thing for you to do.
If I was the person who started this thread, I would be feeling very discouraged, and I would not be feeling the love of Christ.
A person who is not Catholic is certainly not expected to be married in the Catholic Church. I think it is wonderful that the poster is willing to do so for the sake of her husband, who is a Catholic trying to get himself back in good standing with the Church. You are definitely legally married according to the laws of the state. The Catholic Church defines marriage differently than the state does. In the Catholic Church, marriage is a Sacrament. To me, it is a little like apples and oranges. The state defines marriage as an “apple” (a legal contract), and the Church defines marriage as an “orange” (a covenant that lasts a lifetime). If a Catholic tells your husband he isn’t really married, they mean that he never had the kind of wedding ceremony that the Catholic church requires for a Catholic. That is where we get the statement, “He isn’t married in the eyes of the Church.” He is definitely married in the eyes of the state, since he would obviously have to get a divorce if he wanted to marry someone else.
As far as being “open to life,” a statement like that could mean different things to different people. If you were not “open to life,” how on earth could you already have a child? It is really kind of ridiculous, if you think about it. It is definitely not appropriate for people on a forum like this to decide whether or not you are “open to life.” If there are any questions about this, they should be discussed with the priest who plans to bless your marriage.
If I were you, I would just go through whatever steps and red tape it took in order to please my husband. Since he apparently wants to be in good standing with the Catholic church, your going along with him in this area will ease his conscience. The whole thing is really pretty simple. I have seen marriages blessed by a priest after an ordinary Catholic Mass with just two official witnesses and a handful of people! The whole thing took about 5 minutes.
I think you are probably making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. You certainly have no obligation to become a Catholic unless that is what you feel you are called to do, but to have your marriage blessed by the Catholic Church for the sake of your husband would be a loving thing for you to do.
A
actorgirl
Guest
The funny thing is, he is really not pressed about the issue. In his heart of hearts, he doesn’t feel that our marriage is seen any differently in God’s eyes. (I have asked him, many a times
)I really thank you for your post. This si the type of discussion I can jam with
C
cargopilot
Guest
I’m saying that if a Catholic doesn’t get married in the Church (or has been dispensed), they’re not sacramentally married and living in sin. They may be married in the eyes of the state, but not in the eyes of God.
It’s good that his faith is important to him. If he really takes his faith seriously, he knows that he needs to have your marriage regularized as soon as possible. Until then, he knows that he should celebrate the sacrament of reconciliation often, as should ALL Catholics. As a good and faithful Catholic, he should also know that until your marriage is regularized, you should live as Joseph and Mary, to the best of your ability.His Faith is VERY important to him. That’s one of the things I admired about him. As far as mixed marriaged go. If we have no problem with the he being white and me being black, I think we will be just fine.
I believe the challenges facing a mixed-race marriage would be nothing, compared to challenges within the mixed-faith marriage.
Research is good, keep it up. I have to ask, if Catholicism is good enough for your child, why not you? Don’t you think your child is likely to grow up confused when Mom and Dad are of different faiths? What do you find objectionable about the Church founded by the second person of the Trinity?
The “show” is everything that is unimportant about the Catholic marriage. It’s all about the sacramental nature of marriage. It is absolutely the wrong reason to select the Church for marriage.
Just because everybody’s doing it doesn’t make it right.
I did, do and always will. I’ve read perhaps millions of words relating the Church. There are thousands of years of documents written by the most gifted people who have ever lived. The more I read, the more I realize just how little I know. I was just poking you a little. You said you’ve read up on the subject, and I took it as saying you ‘get it’ after a few quick reads.
A
actorgirl
Guest
OK. I understand. I don’t agree. But I understand
I just looked that up to see what you meant. I had no idea that Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin toughout her life.
No, he won’t be confused. We’ll just tell him daddy’s Catholic, mommy’s not. It’ll most likely be the interference of others that might confuse him.
The reason I will not convert… I feel if I were going to convert I would have to believe everything in the Church. I’m not against birth control, I don’t feel homosexuality is wrong, I feel a woman could lead church (ie pope) , (a new one) I don’t think Mary remained a virgin.
These are your truths. nothing wrong with that. As I said in a earlier post, I believe God made many roads to him. I’m not Muslim or Jewish, but I don’t deny that those beliefs are their truths.
.
My husband would be fine jim dandy if we didn’t have another wedding. But I figured if we did, I’d have it in a Catholic church b/c of him. I’m trying to be nice
OH!
. What a complete jerk that would make me. I mean priest study for YEARS and continue to learn throught thier lives. So my little internet searches and my MIL giving me a book that is likened to “Catholicism for Dummies” doesn’t even scratch the surface.I would like to say that even though you’ve made me glare at my Dell, I have enjoyed our debate. I’m happy that in your faith you have found peace and were able to put to rest your bad boy days.
D
Dan_Grelinger
Guest
I can’t let this post go by without saying that in more than one area, it is not true to Catholic teaching. I would not want people to be mislead. If you have questions, study the catechism and Canon law, and you will better understand the seriousness of marriage and what God requires those who wish to enter this institution that He created. We are not free to morph it to our own whims.
Dan
- Status