Open to procreation when procreation is impossible

[Nepenthe]

May I recommend the minor change in terminology between the terms ‘natural law’ (as in ‘If I drop the rock whale we are both under the influence of a particlar -Earth’s in this case- gravitational field, it will fall - hopefully not on my foot!’ and '‘Natural Law’, (you can just hear those capital letters whenever people who ascribe to such things drag them out on the stage) which I at least consider to be an awfully arbitrary human construct, bearing little or nothing to do with physical laws.

It would perhaps assist in the clarification of just what is being discussed.

 

[KSU]

Ordered to procreation is a more precise term than open to procreation (or open to life). The act of sex has a natural order…all the parts in all the right places with the ending in the proper place. This unaltered act is ordered toward procreation, (even if the woman is naturally infertile or the man is naturally infertile), because a pregnancy could occur if conditions are right.

Thanks, Jennifer. I use the term “open to procreation” when an act by a couple physically able to procreate is unaltered. I understand your point that such an act is “ordered to procreation” as well. If the act were altered, or the couple was medically unable to procreate, I would not term it “open to procreation” even though it is still “ordered to procreation.”

Per Nepenthe: " May I recommend the minor change in terminology between the terms ‘natural law’ [and ‘Natural Law’]."

Yes, you may. I perhaps incorrectly use caps to distinguish between the Law (of God, e.g., Thou shall not murder) and all other law, such as the law of man (e.g., drunk driving) and the law of nature (e.g., gravity).

This thread is making my head spin.

 

[PJM]

I am a conservative, married, practicing Catholic, and well versed in the basics of the Faith. Nevertheless, I have never been able to adequately explain to protestant friends the reasoning of the Church regarding the “always open to procreation” requirement during married sex, even if one or both spouses are medically unable to procreate.
I have always been able to show how Church teaching is based on the Natural Law, a revelation of God, etc., but not in this case.
Help, please.

Because of this first line, I’ll not give the “pat answers.”

It has a great geal with a fuller understanding of what and who God are.

What is God?

God is our Creator. Agreed?

Does God have any on going involvement in Creation?

Yes God does.

What is the main factor of God’s constant involvement in our Lifes?

His Presence is what keeps eveerything in existance and us alive.

Is Humanity the only Created of God that are made in the image and likeness of God?

Yes

Why is this? (I’m doing this in very brief manner.)

Because after God had Created the Universe and everything in it,
God saw that “it was good.” But…

But? None of Gods Creation could appreciate what He had done or give Him thanks.

So God Created Humanity, “man and women He made them.” In “His image He made them.”

What is so special about God and humanity?

We have a Mind (spiritual like God) and a intellect (spiritual like God) and a will (Spiritual like God) and a Soul that annimates all of the above as well as our material bodies. The Spirit always rules the material. God too, possesses all of the traits.

So why did God Create us?

To be Honored and Glorified.

How do we do this?

By making RIGHT use of the Gifts God has LOANED us.

Is our sexuality one of these gifts?

Indeed is is one of the most signifiant.

How so?

Genesis 9:7 “**7 And you, be fruitful and multiply, bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply in it.” **

This my dear friend is not a mere suggestion. It is a command.
It does not say “when your ready,” or only when you want too." No, it is specific and clear.

Does God have the right to dicate to His Creations?

Of course he does.Deut. 30: "9 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live, 20 loving the LORD your God, obeying his voice, and cleaving to him; for that means life to you and length of days, that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

**The Wisdom of Soloman 16:13 **“For thou hast power over life and death;thou dost lead men down to the gates of Hades and back again.”

Catechism:

"2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:"

2369 “By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood.”

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Why?
Because our God is a Jealous God. A God who insist on how His gifts are to be used.

Luke chapter 9: 23 "And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself? For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

It is quite simple. Sex is NOT a toy for persoanl gratification, but it can be a source of emense gratification in Married and Unitive Love.

God bless you dear friend,

 

[PJM]

I left this out of my previous post on purpose.

If the married couple is unable to “procreate” there is still the Unitive function, what I call the marriage cement factor of married sexual love.

So if using conterception is not the issue, is it “personal gratification?”

That is always wrong because it’s all about “me”, not us. God didn’t create us for His persoanl amusement nor our own

Sex is only a gift on loan. Like our freewill, God expects, demands right use of it.

 

[LittleDeb]

This thread is making my head spin.

You’re getting some really great answers here, so hold on tight and it will stop spinning. I promise. At this point, I have nothing to add. I’m just reading along…

But I figured since the rest of the “big guns” are here, I just had to join!

 

[Jennifer_J]

I left this out of my previous post on purpose.

If the married couple is unable to “procreate” there is still the Unitive function, what I call the marriage cement factor of married sexual love.

So if using conterception is not the issue, is it “personal gratification?”

That is always wrong because it’s all about “me”, not us. God didn’t create us for His persoanl amusement nor our own

Sex is only a gift on loan. Like our freewill, God expects, demands right use of it.

\

Even if the couple is infertile, the procreative aspect is there. Procreative doesn’t mean FERTILE, it means that the act is completed in fullness–unaltered. Sex between spouses who are naturally infertile is STILL procreative and unitive–whether conception happens or not.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Ordered to procreation is a more precise term than open to procreation (or open to life). The act of sex has a natural order…all the parts in all the right places with the ending in the proper place. This unaltered act is ordered toward procreation, (even if the women is naturally infertile or the man is naturally infertile), because a pregnancy could occur if conditions are right.

Thank you for this!