"Open your eyes, see the lies right in front of you!"

[ThinkingSapien]

Suffice it to say that we disagree. I’m saying that the technology over the past 150 year is beyond the innate wit of us humans. I’m really not sure of your arguments, but it sure sounds like you disagree with me!

I’d say I don’t feel the same way that you do. I can understand it, but I don’t feel it. My thought is that as a community of humans while there have been some impressive accomplishments because of other competing interest our capabilities are not where they could otherwise be.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I’d say I don’t feel the same way that you do. I can understand it, but I don’t feel it. My thought is that as a community of humans while there have been some impressive accomplishments because of other competing interest our capabilities are not where they could otherwise be.

You may want to remember my perspective for future reference, and I yours.

 

[iloveangels]

“and she blinded me with science!”

unlike technology, i believe “science” is hogwash.

Clueless.

Spent a career in research & engineering. Have patents to prove it. Technology depends on both science and mathematics. Lots of statistics.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Your tone does not convey respect for my thoughts and experiences.

I have a thousand stupid thoughts a day, if I don’t respect domestic foolishness why should I respect import? I respect you the person but not the ideas you’re proposing.

You’re trying to belittle me instead of addressing the issue at hand. I realize that my beliefs are going to be scrutinized closely, and that many will disagree at the onset. But think about it closely and tell me that the technological advances over the past 150 years came from our very limited innate wit. You do not address this! It’s simple addition of all the technology present and the total lack of people with the knowledge and knowhow of making it all come to pass.

Bull. God gave us each a perfectly good intellect which we make frequent use of to design and build things. In conclusion, you desperately need a hobby.

I think I did address exactly that. Why do you think the highest beings of a physical nature are incapable of engineering even with the aid of a spiritual soul?

 

[Robert_Sock]

[snip] Why do you think the highest beings of a physical nature are incapable of engineering even with the aid of a spiritual soul?

Again, it all comes down to innate wit and seeing if it accounts for the huge technological advances over the years. Introduce me to some of these individuals, whether there wit is of human or Divine nature? Again, we do not have the innate wit to figure out how to manufacture boxes of toothpicks!

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Again, it all comes down to innate wit and seeing if it accounts for the huge technological advances over the years.

Combined with our spiritual souls, undoubtedly.

Introduce me to some of these individuals, whether there wit is of human or Divine nature?

Wit would seem to be the more physical aspect of intellect, but it is spiritual intelligence that allows us these marvels.

Again, we do not have the innate wit to figure out how to manufacture boxes of toothpicks!

I do. Are you assuming that for more complex tasks we must reinvent the wheel every time?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Wit would seem to be the more physical aspect of intellect, but it is spiritual intelligence that allows us these marvels.

Where are all these individuals with such a high spiritual wit?

I do. Are you assuming that for more complex tasks we must reinvent the wheel every time?

No, of course not. But there are unique aspects of each piece of technology that are unique and require substantial wit. Come on, you in all probability do not have the wit necessary to mass produce toothpicks.

 

[TimeEntrance]

I see Robert’s location is Los Angeles.

That explains everything.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Where are all these individuals with such a high spiritual wit?

Dean Kamen
Steve Wozniak
Albert Einstein
Charles Babbage
Alan Turing
Luther Burbank
Literally the first six that popped into my mind.

No, of course not. But there are unique aspects of each piece of technology that are unique and require substantial wit. Come on, you in all probability do not have the wit necessary to mass produce toothpicks.

Seriously get a Make subscription and see what our “wit” does on a daily basis. (And for the third time, I can mass produce toothpicks.)

 

[Robert_Sock]

Dean Kamen
Steve Wozniak
Albert Einstein
Charles Babbage
Alan Turing
Luther Burbank
Literally the first six that popped into my mind.

Seriously get a Make subscription and see what our “wit” does on a daily basis. (And for the third time, I can mass produce toothpicks.)

For a second time, I highly doubt you have the wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks. Did you ever try and succeed? What IQ do you think one must have to invent the machines necessary to mass produce them? I have a non-verbal IQ close to 3 standard deviations above the mean and I honestly could not figure out how to manufacture the boxes that toothpicks come in!

I also highly doubt that Steve Wozniak invented anything other than putting pieces of already present technology together and calling it his own invented computer. Nobody on the face of this earth has the innate wit to actually invent the computer chip and corresponding machinery necessary to produce them. The CPU is basically the computer and none of your folks claim to have invented it. I venture to say that none of the above names have the innate wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks!

 

[jimmy]

Your tone does not convey respect for my thoughts and experiences. You’re trying to belittle me instead of addressing the issue at hand. I realize that my beliefs are going to be scrutinized closely, and that many will disagree at the onset. But think about it closely and tell me that the technological advances over the past 150 years came from our very limited innate wit. You do not address this! It’s simple addition of all the technology present and the total lack of people with the knowledge and knowhow of making it all come to pass.

Yes, all of technology came from human ingenuity. We developed the technology and built the machines. It occured through a series of small steps. Every once in a while someone would make a small discovery that allowed them to make something a little better.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

For a second time, I highly doubt you have the wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks. Did you ever try and succeed? What IQ do you think one must have to invent the machines necessary to mass produce them? I have a non-verbal IQ close to 3 standard deviations above the mean and I honestly could not figure out how to manufacture the boxes that toothpicks come in!

You can doubt all you want; it is a financial, and not intellectual, obstacle that stops me from mass producing toothpicks.

I also highly doubt that Steve Wozniak invented anything other than putting pieces of already present technology together and calling it his own invented computer. Nobody on the face of this earth has the innate wit to actually invent the computer chip and corresponding machinery necessary to produce them. The CPU is basically the computer and none of your folks claim to have invented it. I venture to say that none of the above names have the innate wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks!

Wiki article on Steve Wozniak:

US Patent No. 4,210,959 — “Controller for magnetic disc, recorder, or the like”

The Woz invented this: mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Peripherals/Disk%20Drives/Apple%20Disk%20II/Patents/US%20Patent%204210959.pdf

You are starting to look very silly indeed. Why don’t you step back from your arrogance, and consider that there are people who understand things you will never understand.

Hamlet:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

For a second time, I highly doubt you have the wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks. Did you ever try and succeed? What IQ do you think one must have to invent the machines necessary to mass produce them? I have a non-verbal IQ close to 3 standard deviations above the mean and I honestly could not figure out how to manufacture the boxes that toothpicks come in!

You can doubt all you want; it is a financial, and not intellectual, obstacle that stops me from mass producing toothpicks.

I also highly doubt that Steve Wozniak invented anything other than putting pieces of already present technology together and calling it his own invented computer.

"Wiki article on Steve Wozniak:

US Patent No. 4,210,959 — “Controller for magnetic disc, recorder, or the like”

The Woz invented this: mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Peripherals/Disk%20Drives/Apple%20Disk%20II/Patents/US%20Patent%204210959.pdf

You are starting to look very silly indeed. Why don’t you step back from your arrogance, and consider that there are people who understand things you will never understand.

Hamlet:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Nobody on the face of this earth has the innate wit to actually invent the computer chip and corresponding machinery necessary to produce them. The CPU is basically the computer and none of your folks claim to have invented it.

You are right to say that no one person can invent the CPU without aid, but you go off the deep end when you say that humanity could not have made it.

Here, let me Google that for you:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_general_purpose_CPUs

I venture to say that none of the above names have the innate wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks!

Toothpick must mean something completely different where you are from. Dean Kamen had the innate wit to make wheelchairs that can go up stairs! Einstein had the innate wit to develop his theories of relativity. Luther Burbank had the innate wit to successfully crossbreed Nicotine and petunias. Alan Turing cracked German ciphers, created the first stored computer program, and developed the theoretical machine on which all modern computers are based! Steve Wozniak invented the worlds first personal computer in an era where computers filled rooms.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

For a second time, I highly doubt you have the wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks. Did you ever try and succeed? What IQ do you think one must have to invent the machines necessary to mass produce them? I have a non-verbal IQ close to 3 standard deviations above the mean and I honestly could not figure out how to manufacture the boxes that toothpicks come in!

You can doubt all you want; it is a financial, and not intellectual, obstacle that stops me from mass producing toothpicks.

I also highly doubt that Steve Wozniak invented anything other than putting pieces of already present technology together and calling it his own invented computer.

"Wiki article on Steve Wozniak:

US Patent No. 4,210,959 — “Controller for magnetic disc, recorder, or the like”

The Woz invented this: mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Peripherals/Disk%20Drives/Apple%20Disk%20II/Patents/US%20Patent%204210959.pdf

You are starting to look very silly indeed. Why don’t you step back from your arrogance, and consider that there are people who understand things you will never understand.

Hamlet:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Nobody on the face of this earth has the innate wit to actually invent the computer chip and corresponding machinery necessary to produce them. The CPU is basically the computer and none of your folks claim to have invented it.

You are right to say that no one person can invent the CPU without aid, but you go off the deep end when you say that humanity could not have made it.

Here, let me Google that for you:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_general_purpose_CPUs

I venture to say that none of the above names have the innate wit to figure out how to mass produce toothpicks!

Toothpick must mean something completely different where you are from. Dean Kamen had the innate wit to make wheelchairs that can go up stairs! Einstein had the innate wit to develop his theories of relativity. Luther Burbank had the innate wit to successfully crossbreed Nicotine and petunias. Alan Turing cracked German ciphers, created the first stored computer program, and developed the theoretical machine on which all modern computers are based! Steve Wozniak invented the worlds first personal computer in an era where computers filled rooms. Charles Babbage invented a programmable calculator made out of gears and cranks. And Henry Ford invented the method by which we mass produce cars; which are a little more advanced than toothpicks.

 

[yppop]

Let me see if I interpreted this discussion correctly: Robert seems to be implying that man could not have created the vast and complex technology that currently exists without some direct (name removed by moderator)ut from God; those taking a contrary view seem to imply that technology is the result of man’s application of the intellect using science and mathematics. IMO both sides are partially correct. Before I give my view of the creation of technology let me present my credentials:

I have a B.S. and an M.S. in Solid State Physics and worked 35 years as a Semiconductor Engineer with Western Electric, the manufacturing arm of the Bell System, a job that put me in close contact with the scientists at Bell Laboratories. I was involved at one time or another in the entire sequence of a semiconductor manufacturing from the design of devices such as transistors and integrated circuits to the procurement and installation of the manufacturing facilities to the prove-in and improvement of the mfg. process. Needless to say the success of any manufacturing process requires an (name removed by moderator)ut of many engineers and for any given product the interrelationship of engineers and designers is too complex to discuss here. Those that argue for the corporate engineering approach to the advance of technology are also partially correct. On the other hand, There are far too many examples of “eureka moments” in the history of technolgy to neglect those individual creative moments when technolgy took a quantum leap. It is precisely those examples creativity that speak for the involvment of God.

However, this is a philosophy forum, so let me give you my philosophical view of the creation of technology.

The mind is the interface (or the combination of you like) of matter (neurons in the brain) and a spiritual component (nous) that is manifested as consciousness. The mind communicates with the external reality in two modes: (1) with tangential insight and (2) with radial insight. Tangential insight is the activity the mind employs ingathering knowledge from other minds and the product of other minds. Radial insight is the activity the mind employs in creating new knowledge. The activity that incites tangential insight is study; the activity that incites radial insight is wonder. Study of the body of knowledge pertaining to a particular technology is essential to its advance. Study of technology is the product of desire, aptitude, and opportunity. Wonder is a gift from God in the form of sanctifying grace — sometimes called habitual grace. Wonder is an essential component of creativity and creativity is an essential part of all technologies as well as the ancillary knowledge of science and math. It is through the mind’s acquiescence to sanctifying grace that revelations of new ideas, those eureka moments, are gifts from God. It is in this subtle way that our theistic God is involved in human reality. Those of you that may experience such a eureka moment, however inconsequential, will know through the feeling of awe.

Technology advances in small steps on the backs of legions of engineers and other technologists until God provides some individual wonderer with a eureka moment and technology takes a quantum jump. I could name a multitude of examples.

Yppop

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Let me see if I interpreted this discussion correctly: Robert seems to be implying that man could not have created the vast and complex technology that currently exists without some direct (name removed by moderator)ut from God; those taking a contrary view seem to imply that technology is the result of man’s application of the intellect using science and mathematics. IMO both sides are partially correct. Before I give my view of the creation of technology let me present my credentials:

I have a B.S. and an M.S. in Solid State Physics and worked 35 years as a Semiconductor Engineer with Western Electric, the manufacturing arm of the Bell System, a job that put me in close contact with the scientists at Bell Laboratories. I was involved at one time or another in the entire sequence of a semiconductor manufacturing from the design of devices such as transistors and integrated circuits to the procurement and installation of the manufacturing facilities to the prove-in and improvement of the mfg. process. Needless to say the success of any manufacturing process requires an (name removed by moderator)ut of many engineers and for any given product the interrelationship of engineers and designers is too complex to discuss here. Those that argue for the corporate engineering approach to the advance of technology are also partially correct. On the other hand, There are far too many examples of “eureka moments” in the history of technolgy to neglect those individual creative moments when technolgy took a quantum leap. It is precisely those examples creativity that speak for the involvment of God.

However, this is a philosophy forum, so let me give you my philosophical view of the creation of technology.

The mind is the interface (or the combination of you like) of matter (neurons in the brain) and a spiritual component (nous) that is manifested as consciousness. The mind communicates with the external reality in two modes: (1) with tangential insight and (2) with radial insight. Tangential insight is the activity the mind employs ingathering knowledge from other minds and the product of other minds. Radial insight is the activity the mind employs in creating new knowledge. The activity that incites tangential insight is study; the activity that incites radial insight is wonder. Study of the body of knowledge pertaining to a particular technology is essential to its advance. Study of technology is the product of desire, aptitude, and opportunity. Wonder is a gift from God in the form of sanctifying grace — sometimes called habitual grace. Wonder is an essential component of creativity and creativity is an essential part of all technologies as well as the ancillary knowledge of science and math. It is through the mind’s acquiescence to sanctifying grace that revelations of new ideas, those eureka moments, are gifts from God. It is in this subtle way that our theistic God is involved in human reality. Those of you that may experience such a eureka moment, however inconsequential, will know through the feeling of awe.

Technology advances in small steps on the backs of legions of engineers and other technologists until God provides some individual wonderer with a eureka moment and technology takes a quantum jump. I could name a multitude of examples.

Yppop

I definitely do not reject the possibility that some technological knowledge has come through inspiration; in fact I affirm that this is the case, but to say we are incapable of figuring out toothpicks is lunacy.

 

[TimeEntrance]

I definitely do not reject the possibility that some technological knowledge has come through inspiration; in fact I affirm that this is the case, but to say we are incapable of figuring out toothpicks is lunacy.

No… it’s Los Angeles.

 

[Robert_Sock]

No… it’s Los Angeles.

Respect please.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

A good bit ago, there was a TV series called “Connections” that used to air on A&E back when basic cable showed real documentaries; the idea was typically to go back to some early, basic invention that solved some mundane problem a few hundred years ago, and trace the impact that had on other inventions straight through to the modern age. Random stuff we take for granted like a manufacturing processes for standardized screws, which then makes possible mass-producing all kinds of machinery with interchangeable parts, which then leads to all manner of modern technologies.

As far as manufacturing computer chips, the whole semiconductor manufacturing process is a marvel of material science, chemistry & chemical engineering, driven by designs conceived by electrical engineers & physicists. No one person understands all of it, but it’s a cooperative, interdisciplinary effort amongst many people, each of whom understands parts of it in enough detail to put it all together. Same goes for a lot of other technology.

One of my other favorite programs is “How It’s Made” - it is fascinating to see modern manufacturing processes, but also demystifies a lot of stuff.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Respect please.

Eh… I just like to sneak in jabs at L.A. every little chance I get. :coffeeread:

That city does produce a lot of weirdos (not calling you a weirdo) and psychos.