Openly gay Eucharistic Minister?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ncguy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I understand that the Church is concerned about chastity, but living with someone with whom you are not married is not inherently sinful. It is considered to be a poor prudential judgment for many people because it may lead to sinful acts or even postpone marriage. But we’re making some pretty massive generalizations here that we should keep in check.

If two people are engaged and live together, are not having sex nor are they tempted to, and are getting married shortly, that is not sinful nor is it being a bad Catholic. In our society where there are almost no parental checks on how couples interact, it’s just as easy to be unchaste not living with someone as it is living with them.

I will grant that for many living together when not married is a bad prudential judgment, but it is not an inherently sinful act. In certain circumstances it could actually be a good act (if it in some hypothetical way led to the deepening of one’s Catholic faith and practice).
 
**At Mass on Sunday, I noticed one of the Eucharistic Ministers was someone who is openly gay (lives with his “partner”). Should I say something to someone (the pastor knows)? **

**If the pastor knows, then apparently he knows somthing that you clearly do not.

Right?

**

Should I just go to a different line for Communion?

Why? Do you think the Sacrament will deconsecrate if this person were to touch it? That’s why I brought up the issue of Donatism.
 
I would remind myself that we are all sinners and that the Church of Christ does not need a bouncer.

And that we don’t know what is in that persons heart.

Pray about it.
 
**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Such as not living with someone to whom they are not married.

Like monks or nuns in a religious community?
Most ordinary people know what I mean.**

Please be specific and say which canon forbids two people of the same sex from sharing a domicile.
 
If the EMCH has introducted the other person as a “partner” then there is an admission of sexual activity and it should be condemmed.
 
If the EMCH has introducted the other person as a “partner” then there is an admission of sexual activity and it should be condemmed.
Finally some sanity!

Look folks; No, we shouldn’t go out and be looking to kick gay people out of the Church! I certainly don’t think that is what is being suggested by the OP!

It is my hope that the OP also would have more information about this person’s lifestyle than just that they live with someone of the same sex. As it has been stated, people do have roommates.

HOWEVER, if this person is openly gay, as in calling someone their “partner” or being part of the gay culture, or just outright telling people they are gay, they are not to serve as Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.

HOWEVER AGAIN…let’s not limit that to those who live a homosexual lifestyle. Those in irregular marriages or who have left the clerical state or who have openly defied the Church’s teaching should also not be allowed such a special role. It is inappropriate, their rejection of certain Catholic doctrine brings into serious question their acceptance of other doctrine (such as the Eucharist they are handling!!!) and could very easily cause scandal.

WITH ALL THAT SAID…We should NOT put into the same place those who may have homosexual inclinations, but have chosen celibacy (either as priests or laity). Homosexuality is NOT a sin. Homosexual ACTS are.

AND FINALLY…
Do openly gay EM’s profane the Eucharist any more than openly gay, or child abusing, priests?
You know, I’m getting really sick of people using the sex abuse scandal for an excuse for abandoning all law. “Well, women as priests can’t be as bad as male child molestor priests” or “Married priests can’t be as bad as male child molestor priests” or “You don’t have a right to say abortion is wrong…your church can’t even stop sex abuse”…GAH! The doctrine is perfect…the people who enforce it are not.
 
Like most have stated we don’t know if he is a practicing “gay”. I also agree that we should not have EMs.

I have a sister, who is living with her boyfriend in a small town were everyone knows everyone and who is an EM. I also had a chance to talk to her and she doesn’t seem to understand that this is Our Lord that she is holding.

Education is the only way these abuses can be stopped.
 
It is a sad day when many in our Church do not realize they are handling and receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus when they behold the Blessed Sacrament.

To be in a state of grave sin (such as living an openly gay lifestyle or living together in “sin”) and to be an EMHC or to receive the Blessed Sacrament in a state of mortal sin is a sacrilege. This is why our churches need to focus more on the Blessed Sacrament and start referring to it more as a sacrifice rather then as a meal i.e focusing on the “supper” part of the Last Supper). If I want a meal I can go to a fast food restaurant and get a quick bite, if I want eternal life then I must eat and drink of Christ flesh and blood.
 
Finally some sanity!

HOWEVER, if this person is openly gay, as in calling someone their “partner” or being part of the gay culture, or just outright telling people they are gay, they are not to serve as Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.
This is not sanity at all.

Tell me, what is the “gay culture”? Now, you may have a very fair and concrete definition - the problem is, most people don’t.

If a man wears all trendy “Express” clothing, is very thin, and quite flamboyant, is he part of the “gay culture”? Take it a step further - what if he is SEEN drinking beer in a gay bar? Is he NOW part of that culture? Where is the line? What if he does ALL of the above, AND lives with another man - whom he does NOT introduce as his partner? Is there now enough “evidence”?

You may (and will no doubt) say “Well, you KNOW what I mean”. But the problem is - we don’t. The line has to be drawn somewhere. But where? So the man in my above example has circumstantial evidence against him, but has not admitted anything. Should he continue to serve? What about the man who simply admits it? He should not?

How about the man I see every week in our parish acting as a Eucharistic minister who was actively having an affair on his wife? Should he go? Did he stop the sexual activity, go to confession, and apolagize to his wife? I don’t know.

We need to understand that every single person giving out Communion up there is living in sin - including the priest. Stop policing other people’s souls.
 
Like most have stated we don’t know if he is a practicing “gay”. I also agree that we should not have EMs.

I have a sister, who is living with her boyfriend in a small town were everyone knows everyone and who is an EM. I also had a chance to talk to her and she doesn’t seem to understand that this is Our Lord that she is holding.

Education is the only way these abuses can be stopped.
How about an EM who practices birth control and thinks it is OK?
Yep they do exist.
 
.

We need to understand that every single person giving out Communion up there is living in sin - including the priest. Stop policing other people’s souls.
What we need to understand is that Priests and EM’s are handling the body and blood of Christ. Handling The Body of Christ or eating the body of Christ while in the state of mortal sin is a very grave act. Do I understand that no one is perfect and all are sinners yes I do, However I do not have to accept that some who have the above honor are in mortal sin. I agree with some others I have a problem with EM’s.
 
What we need to understand is that Priests and EM’s are handling the body and blood of Christ. Handling The Body of Christ or eating the body of Christ while in the state of mortal sin is a very grave act. Do I understand that no one is perfect and all are sinners yes I do, However I do not have to accept that some who have the above honor are in mortal sin. I agree with some others I have a problem with EM’s.
I have some bad news for you. I’ve worked in parishes and been in rectorys for a long time - and I’ve been close with many priests. Many of them are gay. I’m sorry - this is a fairly well known fact. And if you think all of them are living chaste - well, never mind, I’ll let you live your fantasy.

Extraordinary ministers are really a scapegoat for this issue.
 
Its alright, ‘‘gay’’ isn’t contagious 😃 .

As far as I’m aware because we’re all sinners then it is ok, and as the poster above said, openly gay doesn’t necessarily mean actively gay.
A chaste homosexual has no need to declare himself to anyone.
 
I would remind myself that we are all sinners and that the Church of Christ does not need a bouncer.

And that we don’t know what is in that persons heart.

Pray about it.
This can be quite scandalous to the whole faithful community.

An EMHC is expected to strive to live in accordance with the Catholic faith. Being openly gay puts one at odds with the Church and Jesus.

Yes, we are all sinners. However, if one is publicly obstinate then that is grave and scandalous.
 
This is not sanity at all.

Tell me, what is the “gay culture”? Now, you may have a very fair and concrete definition - the problem is, most people don’t.

If a man wears all trendy “Express” clothing, is very thin, and quite flamboyant, is he part of the “gay culture”? Take it a step further - what if he is SEEN drinking beer in a gay bar? Is he NOW part of that culture? Where is the line? What if he does ALL of the above, AND lives with another man - whom he does NOT introduce as his partner? Is there now enough “evidence”?

You may (and will no doubt) say “Well, you KNOW what I mean”. But the problem is - we don’t. The line has to be drawn somewhere. But where? So the man in my above example has circumstantial evidence against him, but has not admitted anything. Should he continue to serve? What about the man who simply admits it? He should not?

How about the man I see every week in our parish acting as a Eucharistic minister who was actively having an affair on his wife? Should he go? Did he stop the sexual activity, go to confession, and apolagize to his wife? I don’t know.

We need to understand that every single person giving out Communion up there is living in sin - including the priest. Stop policing other people’s souls.
We are all called to try to avoid the sin of scandal.
 
Thank you to all of you who answered the questions in my original post. They have all been very helpful. I particularly got a lot out of the Donatism comments, as I had no background on this. Believe it or not, that was helpful to me. Thank you japhy for the quotes from the Church documents. Those are helpful too. However, I think we can all do without the inflammatory comments from some (either extreme). Nothing was meant by my original post other than my honest questions.

Despite having learned a lot from all of your comments, I am still very confused. Based on all the comments, I still don’t have a definitive answer. Both sides present persuasive points.

To those concerned that this is gossip or hearsay, I can assure you it’s not. There is no ill intent on my part; I just want to know exactly what the Church teaches on this issue. My concern is that by my parish allowing an openly gay EMHC, we are promoting and accepting sinful behavior. And yes, this could be applied to any number of issues (birth control, abortion, etc.). But I didn’t see a pro-choice marcher serving as EMHC. I would have the same issue if I did. Again, my concern is that we are promoting bad behavior to many who don’t know what the Church teaches.

I tried to avoid any specific details in my OP, but since many are speculating, I thought I would share more. A year ago, a full page was dedicated in our parish bulletin to a gay couple that are parishioners and wanted to share their story about how much they love the parish. One of the men moved to our area to be with the other. He said in the bulletin that where he was moving from, “Some people knew me as gay, but many didn’t. Here, [we] were a couple, and I was determined not to lie about who I am or conceal that.”

The bulletin was upsetting in its own right. But I hadn’t ever seen the “couple” until Mass on Sunday, when I recognized one (from the picture of the two of them in the bulletin) as an EMHC.

Is it OK for this to be promoted in a parish? If not, what should be done about it? (Please, no witch-hunt answers, thank you.)
 
ncguy, are you sure this is a Roman Catholic Church? Recognized by the Diocese?

If this is a real Roman Catholic Church. I’d give a call to the Diocese to discuss it. Didn’t anyone do this when this story was published in the Parish bulletin?
 
Seatuck,

Yes. That was my thought. Yes, recognized by the Diocese. I spent an hour and a half talking to the pastor . . . to no avail. I know at least one person who sent a letter to the bishop, then left the parish. The diocese has to be aware.
 
This is not sanity at all.
Tell me, what is the “gay culture”? Now, you may have a very fair and concrete definition - the problem is, most people don’t.
Perhaps I should been clearer. If one supports a position that is contrary to the position of the Church on matters of faith and morals, whether it is on sexuality, abortion, doctrine, etc, you should not receive communion, let alone distribute it. By “supporting gay culture”, I speak of supporting homosexual marriage, homosexual acts or the like
If a man wears all trendy “Express” clothing, is very thin, and quite flamboyant, is he part of the “gay culture”? Take it a step further - what if he is SEEN drinking beer in a gay bar? Is he NOW part of that culture? Where is the line? What if he does ALL of the above, AND lives with another man - whom he does NOT introduce as his partner? Is there now enough “evidence”?
This is the requirement of the pastor. Clothing and flamboyance is one thing, but if a man is seen in a gay bar, this creates scandal. This does not befit one who distributes the body and blood of Christ. If there is the possibility of scandal or if the person is partaking in questionable activities (such as partaking in a gay rights parade, being seen at a gay bar…although one has to ask who saw him there and why were THEY there???), it is the duty of the pastor to confront the person, in charity.
You may (and will no doubt) say “Well, you KNOW what I mean”. But the problem is - we don’t. The line has to be drawn somewhere. But where? So the man in my above example has circumstantial evidence against him, but has not admitted anything. Should he continue to serve? What about the man who simply admits it? He should not?
Again, if there is the possibility of scandal or if there are doubts, the pastor should, in charity, discuss the issue with the person.
How about the man I see every week in our parish acting as a Eucharistic minister who was actively having an affair on his wife? Should he go? Did he stop the sexual activity, go to confession, and apologize to his wife? I don’t know.
This is a matter of public scandal. If the man is a well known cheater or if the affair was public, the pastor should address the situation, in charity and in private. This is the same if the person were a known supporter of Planned Parenthood or if they were a legislator and supported pro-abortion policies.

Redemptionis Sacramentum has already been quoted, but I think it bears to be repeated:

The lay Christian faithful called to give assistance at liturgical celebrations should be well instructed and must be those whose Christian life, morals and fidelity to the Church’s Magisterium recommend them. It is fitting that such a one should have received a liturgical formation in accordance with his or her age, condition, state of life, and religious culture. No one should be selected whose designation could cause consternation for the faithful.
We need to understand that every single person giving out Communion up there is living in sin - including the priest. Stop policing other people’s souls.
I’m not sure whether to find your attempt at lecturing this forum laughable or insulting. Your lack of knowledge in moral theology and basic sacramental theology is demonstrated by this last statement. When it is mentioned that one is living in sin, it is referring to a state of mortal sin, not having confessed and not having received absolution. I certainly hope that anyone who is acting in any official form during the Mass, especially the priest, is in the state of grace. If they are not, they should not be doing so.

As for “policing other people’s souls”, acting as an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion is not a right. It is a closely guarded privilege that the Church, rightly, extends only to those who are in a state of grace and who have a great love of the Eucharist. Unfortunately, some pastors do not have the required guts to say no to those who are living a lifestyle (whether gay, pro-abortion, adulterous, etc) that is simply unacceptable to the Church. Situations like that scandalize the faithful and lead to questions by the faithful of what the Church does and does not believe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top