Opinion: Is the Pope Anglican?

[Justy90]

I had simular problems when I was still methodist. People here on these forums would be responding to my post saying “John Wesley this, John Wesley that!” …and I was like… listen mate, it has been a long time since John Wesley! Things change through time and not to mention the fact that there are too many denominations to list.

You are trying to make your argument about all of Anglicanism upon one of the 39 provinces of it. That my freind is a very flawed and incorrect notion.

 

[Harpazo]

The Episcopal church is one out of 39 provinces of Anglicanism. Do you still wish to stick your foot in your mouth about how much of Anglicanism tolerates homosexuality? You don’t know what you are talking about.

I would argue that the Anglican communion does accept homosexuality, whether they want to or not. The fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury tolerates rampant homosexuality and moral decay is very telling. The African bishops can cry about it all they want, but until they sever communion with the Anglican communion they have no argument. If you are in communion with someone, that means that you believe what they believe and they believe what you believe. I don’t see how it can get any simpler.

I feel for these “Continuing Anglican groups.” It has to be absolutely heart-wrenching to see the church they once loved fall into such apostasy. They are doing their darnedest to preserve the traditions given to them, and I give them credit for that. Of course, I would love to see them become Orthodox or even Catholic of any stripe, but I will leave that to God and His infinite mercy.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Zundrah]

You are trying to make your argument about all of Anglicanism upon one of the 39 provinces of it. That my freind is a very flawed and incorrect notion.

If you dissagree, then you best split from them.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If you dissagree, then you best split from them.

Zundrah, I think you miss Justy’s point. He’s NOT pro-gay and ACNA, the group to which he belongs in the Anglican communion, is not pro-gay either. He believes he can be Anglican and doesn’t have to endorse Episcopalian viewpoints. He is correct. I have many many disagreements with Anglicanism but to say they are ALL succumbing to the gay agenda is unfair really.

 

[Justy90]

Zundrah, I think you miss Justy’s point. He’s NOT pro-gay and ACNA, the group to which he belongs in the Anglican communion, is not pro-gay either. He believes he can be Anglican and doesn’t have to endorse Episcopalian viewpoints. He is correct. I have many many disagreements with Anglicanism but to say they are ALL succumbing to the gay agenda is unfair really.

Thank you for you clarification Gurney, hopefully Z guy will begin to understand this.

 

[MarkBrown]

[Offensive in which way? …(since you are not gay)?

Ahem, while being gay is one thing… raping a child is something else, a criminal offense. The two cannot be compared!

It is not a sin to stand back and acknowledge that clergymen are doing something that the bible so boldly forbids!
[/QUOTE]

A - They probably do have popes. Two, most likely. Since every Anglican clergyman/ woman seems to need to have a gay partner these days!

you are selective in our mock outrage of my pointing out your words. You condemn ALL Anglican clergy as the statement I pasted in from your first post shows. It is word for word. A statement you know is not true, by your lame attempts to deflect it. Your fellow Catholics on this thread have disavowed it, one has apologized for supporting it at first.

Also, both are sins. while human law may ok one and not the other, God does not. God does compare. I would not try, on the day of judgment, to use the “but oh, man’s laws said it was ok!” line.

 

[Zundrah]

Zundrah, I think you miss Justy’s point. He’s NOT pro-gay and ACNA, the group to which he belongs in the Anglican communion, is not pro-gay either. He believes he can be Anglican and doesn’t have to endorse Episcopalian viewpoints. He is correct. I have many many disagreements with Anglicanism but to say they are ALL succumbing to the gay agenda is unfair really.

It is far from unfair to say that the majority of Anglicanism is gay! Aren’t the bishops gay? Isn’t there gay arch bishops!? Listen, if the bad apple is in the bowl…

 

[Zundrah]

Selective? You make me sound sadistic.

You condemn ALL Anglican clergy as the statement I pasted in from your first post shows.

I condemn no humanbeings. But if you are in communion with a group that are acting in sinful ways, then surly you are also in agreeance with that and accept it wholy?

It is word for word.

Words are words, and cannot be hidden.

A statement you know is not true, by your lame attempts to deflect it.

What statement? That Anglicanism is okay with gay clergy? Yes… they are. I’m not changing my statement.

Your fellow Catholics on this thread have disavowed it, one has apologized for supporting it at first.

My fellow catholics?

Also, both are sins. while human law may ok one and not the other, God does not.

And your point is? What are you rambeling on about now? I believe you might be evading the point?

God does compare. I would not try, on the day of judgment, to use the “but oh, man’s laws said it was ok!” line.

So what am I guilty of exactly? Accusing people of being pro-gay who actually claim not to be? But you are in their clan! So yes, you do support it. That at least makes sense does it not? If I choose to be catholic then that means I am supportive of child baptisms? If I wasn’t in aggreeance with child baptisms then I should not be able to call myself catholic, right? So you are not Anglican if you do not believe that gay clergy is fine? You are in a church full of gay clergy, my friend. You are the pillar to the Anglican temple…

 

[livi]

um, no the Pope is not Anglican.

 

[Harpazo]

um, no the Pope is not Anglican.

Yes, we know this. It might be a good idea to listen to the podcast so you can get an idea as to what the OP was talking about. This might facilitate some discussion.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Zundrah]

um, no the Pope is not Anglican.

I couldn’t have put it better myself!

 

[John_Larocque]

I heard the podcast, and I wished the good father had sounded less snarky when he brought up differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. He sounded no worse than many of the liberal Protestant critics who have openly compared the Anglican initiative to some kind of attempt to assert papalist universal jurisdiction. “Well, if YOU believe in these things, you should join the Catholic church (but I don’t).” One of the persistent problems with converts is that they drag their prejudices with them when they join a new religion. Many Protestants brought their anti-Catholic prejudices with them when they joined Mormonism in its earlier years, and they thundered like their former brethren in claiming Rome as the great and abominable church. Anti-Catholicism is well bred into the American psyche. When I say this, I don’t mean those who disagree with its teachings and are happy not to be members, but rather those who are carrying on ancient grudges that go back to the Reformation.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Far be it from me to defend Anglicanism in any great depth but YES, your post is indeed unfair. The “majority” of Anglicanism is NOT gay?! Have you looked up any actual statistics or done any research on this statement before making it or are you just assuming that, because a few high-profile lunatic bishops or priests in Anglicanism are gay, that must mean “the majority” of them are? An anti-Catholic moron could just as easily say, “the majority of Catholic priests are pedophiles” because of the many sad cases in recent years. They would, of course, be very wrong, seeing as how only 1-2% of the priesthood was indicted for molestation. You are aware that the most Anglicans in the entire world are in AFRICA, right? Nigeria is the biggest, most robust nest for Anglicanism in the world and that country is extremely ANTI-gay! Bishops like Jack Iker in Fort Worth, Bishop Schofield in San Joaquin here in Calif, and many others are very very anti-gay lifestyle. When I was Anglican I didn’t know one homosexual parishoner? Still don’t? I know they’re out there, but “majority?” Please…
And your bad apple in the bowl, you lost me with that…? Do you mean one bad apple spoils the lot?

It is far from unfair to say that the majority of Anglicanism is gay! Aren’t the bishops gay? Isn’t there gay arch bishops!? Listen, if the bad apple is in the bowl…

 

[MarkBrown]

Selective? You make me sound sadistic.

I condemn no humanbeings. But if you are in communion with a group that are acting in sinful ways, then surly you are also in agreeance with that and accept it wholy?

Words are words, and cannot be hidden.

What statement? That Anglicanism is okay with gay clergy? Yes… they are. I’m not changing my statement.

My fellow catholics?

And your point is? What are you rambeling on about now? I believe you might be evading the point?

So what am I guilty of exactly? Accusing people of being pro-gay who actually claim not to be? But you are in their clan! So yes, you do support it. That at least makes sense does it not? If I choose to be catholic then that means I am supportive of child baptisms? If I wasn’t in aggreeance with child baptisms then I should not be able to call myself catholic, right? So you are not Anglican if you do not believe that gay clergy is fine? You are in a church full of gay clergy, my friend. You are the pillar to the Anglican temple…

using your flawed logic, every Catholic is in favor of sex with children, since some catholic clergy had sex with children. So your choosing to be catholic means you are pro-sex with children. Oh by the way you are also pro-abortion as there are catholics who are pro-death. Guilt by association…nice. How very unchristian. Guess I better stop using your logic since you have adopted unchristian attitudes and values…guilt by association and such.

Fr. Mark
ACNA

 

[Zundrah]

using your flawed logic, every Catholic is in favor of sex with children, since some catholic clergy had sex with children. So your choosing to be catholic means you are pro-sex with children. Oh by the way you are also pro-abortion as there are catholics who are pro-death. Guilt by association…nice. How very unchristian. Guess I better stop using your logic since you have adopted unchristian attitudes and values…guilt by association and such.

Fr. Mark
ACNA

Are you a child? The DIFFERENCE is that your church allows gay clergy, they actually ordain them knowing full well what the bible says about gay activity! The point I am making is that they are going against the scriptures! That is THE point!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Zundrah, Father Mark is no child, trust me. I have learned a great deal from him as a friend in Christ. He is extremely adept when it comes to theology, Church history, and logic. He’s no child. What he is saying is quite true. As a Catholic, I disagree with most of Anglican ecclesiology and theology (so does Father Mark) but I have to be HONEST. Do you seriously think that ALL OF ANGLICANISM IS PRO-GAY and allows their clergy to be gay? The ACNA, for example, does NOT permit gay marriages or gay ordination? Why do you persist in lumping ACNA Anglicans or Anglicans in Africa with the liberal Anglicans in the Episcopal Church or Church of England? I really advise you to do some reading about these groups and see that the biggest mistake in the world you could ever ever ever make about Anglicanism is generalizing. Why? Because Anglicanism isn’t confessional but rather a lex orandi lex credendi type church and it’s a very loose (and I mean LOOSE!) confederation of churches that are often as different as night and day. Your post is out of bounds.

Are you a child? The DIFFERENCE is that your church allows gay clergy, they actually ordain them knowing full well what the bible says about gay activity! The point I am making is that they are going against the scriptures! That is THE point!

 

[Zundrah]

using your flawed logic, every Catholic is in favor of sex with children, since some catholic clergy had sex with children. So your choosing to be catholic means you are pro-sex with children. Oh by the way you are also pro-abortion as there are catholics who are pro-death. Guilt by association…nice. How very unchristian. Guess I better stop using your logic since you have adopted unchristian attitudes and values…guilt by association and such.

Fr. Mark
ACNA

Are you a child? The difference is that your church allows gay clergy, they actually ordain them knowing full well what the bible says about gay activity. The point I am making is that they are going against the scriptures. That is the point.
It’s not about what people are doing behind closed doors, it’s about what the church permits openly.

 

[Zundrah]

using your flawed logic, every Catholic is in favor of sex with children, since some catholic clergy had sex with children. So your choosing to be catholic means you are pro-sex with children. Oh by the way you are also pro-abortion as there are catholics who are pro-death. Guilt by association…nice. How very unchristian. Guess I better stop using your logic since you have adopted unchristian attitudes and values…guilt by association and such.

Fr. Mark
ACNA

Are you a child? The difference is that your church allows gay clergy, they actually ordain them knowing full well what the bible says about gay activity. The point I am making is that they are going against the scriptures. That is the point.
It’s not about what people are doing behind closed doors, it’s about what the church permits openly.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Well, opinions are opinions, every one has one.

Would you be open-minded and read if there were ever something like “Is Patriarch Bartholomew Lutheran?”

What would be your instinctive reaction to that one?

In this situation, it’s really a matter of “would I be open-minded and listen”. The answer is yes. It would interest me and I would take the few minutes and listen before I drew conclusions and posted.

If you want to listen and post a comment about it, here is the link again: ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodixie - the Title of this post is simply the Title of the podcast - I guess I wasn’t clear enough about that in my OP.

I found it interesting even though I don’t know much about Anglicanism - if that’s the right word?

 

[SingleMomMonica]

So…you post an inflamatory statement and then disappear? how brave.I am only a “so called Catholic” let me make this perfectly clear, Pope Benedict is the Vicar of Christ the anglican church was founded by a king who historically of questionable character I hope and pray for one universal church founded by Jesus Christ.Seems like quite a few anglicans will join us, I am good with that.I think it is a shame we are so divided…so few people believe in God at all, and here we squabble:shrug:

I apologize, since I started this Thread, my daughter was diagnosed with an “currently” incurable medical condition which is affecting her ability to speak clearly as well as making it difficult for her to chew & eat.

The symptoms came on suddenly Friday and the diagnosis was given yesterday.

I admitt that coming to this website and catching up on this thread has not been a priority of mine recently.

I hope you will accept my apologies.