Opinions? "Jazz Masses" announced

[pnewton]

I would never presume to comment without hearing it, or reading more. I could see where this might be done properly. I have used “Precious Lord” in Mass. It is jazz. I personally do not like special music Masses to include the Mass parts, as opposed to letting the faithful sing those, but I would say that whether it was jazz, polyphony or Gregorian chant.

 

[Rhuarc]

On the lighter side, you can’t have a jazz mass without jazz hands.

 

[buzzoff1031]

On the lighter side, you can’t have a jazz mass without jazz hands.

 

[929dad]

The origins of Gospel music find themselves in the application of harmonic and rhythmic ideas from jazz on traditional hymns. I get that any number of people don’t think that much of the music composed since 1750 has much of a place in the Church, but it might be totally possible to follow all the appropriate rubrics and use a style of Jazz.

I find it amusing that so many people advance the argument that no newer styles of music are appropriate for Mass. I find it hard to believe that the Holy Spirit hasn’t inspired anyone to compose music for worship in the last 200+ years.

 

[Usige]

The biggest issue I see is that it’s being billed as something associated with a secular entertainment event. The way it’s “advertised” it makes it seem like yet another venue for the Jazz Festival. The Mass should never be seen as part of an entertainment event and tying the two together seems a poor idea to me.

 

[Usige]

I find it amusing that so many people advance the argument that no newer styles of music are appropriate for Mass. I find it hard to believe that the Holy Spirit hasn’t inspired anyone to compose music for worship in the last 200+ years.

It’s not that many traditionalist oppose new music, but many of us do oppose secular music styles in the Mass. I grew up listening to hard rock and heavy metal, but that doesn’t mean I think that style of music is appropriate for mass (even if you used lyrics straight from the bible)

 

[Actaeon]

It’s not that many traditionalist oppose new music, but many of us do oppose secular music styles in the Mass. I grew up listening to hard rock and heavy metal, but that doesn’t mean I think that style of music is appropriate for mass (even if you used lyrics straight from the bible)

Erm… ALL music was developed in a secular setting, even classical chanting had it’s origins in Roman chant (and thereon to liturgical gallican chant, carolingian chant, and finally to gregorian chant).

There is a difference between saying that there is appropriate music for mass and outright banning entire cultures’ musical contributions to sacred music simply because of the idea that “secular” sources might have gotten there first. That mindset is CERTAINLY one which was not historically held by the church, or we would be having music with the singing, drums, and dancing of traditional jewish worship rather than most of what we have in mass today…

 

[opus101]

Question; all of the instruments in a jazz ensemble are not banned within the Church, as they can all be used in an orchestra. We don’t even know the style of music they’re doing, it might be somber jazz, the music being suitable for Mass. So what’s the deal?

Oh well.

QUICK, CALL THE CARDINAL/
[edited]

Unless it’s a certain type of African-American Gospel music, Jazz music (which I LOVE, and play every weekend at gigs) is not sacred music (something composed according to certain guidelines for liturgical purposes alone).

Just because something is “somber” doesn’t make it suitable for Mass. “Somberness” doesn’t equal “sacred” (in the sense of something “set apart” from other types of music for the sacred liturgy alone).

 

[Bill_Martin]

The origins of Gospel music find themselves in the application of harmonic and rhythmic ideas from jazz on traditional hymns. I get that any number of people don’t think that much of the music composed since 1750 has much of a place in the Church, but it might be totally possible to follow all the appropriate rubrics and use a style of Jazz.

I find it amusing that so many people advance the argument that no newer styles of music are appropriate for Mass. I find it hard to believe that the Holy Spirit hasn’t inspired anyone to compose music for worship in the last 200+ years.

It isn’t the music. It’s the way they are advertsing the Jazz Mass as an entertainment event, instead of prayer.

 

[R_C]

cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2012/07/31/jazzing-up-the-mass-in-san-jose/
Opinions?

“First of all, we should distinguish between unity and uniformity. The latter suggests one single scheme while the former safeguards the essence, leaving space for creativity.” (source)

There are specific documents by the Church, such as the Musicam Sacram and the VI chapter of the Sacrosanctum Concilium, where we find the following:

No kind of sacred music is prohibited from liturgical actions by the Church as long as it corresponds to the spirit of the liturgical celebration itself and the nature of its individual parts, and does not hinder the active participation of the people.

In certain parts of the world, especially mission lands, there are peoples who have their own musical traditions, and these play a great part in their religious and social life. For this reason due importance is to be attached to their music, and a suitable place is to be given to it, not only in forming their attitude toward religion, but also in adapting worship to their native genius

In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument

The use of other instruments may also be admitted in divine worship, given the decision and consent of the competent territorial authority, provided that the instruments are suitable for sacred use, or can be adapted to it, that they are in keeping with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.

If the event is taking place not just in any church, but in the Cathedral Basilica of St. Joseph, then we may presume that the Bishop knows and has given consent, which should mean that such music is suitable in that place and time. That does not mean, of course, that it is suitable everywhere.

 

[pnewton]

It isn’t the music. It’s the way they are advertsing the Jazz Mass as an entertainment event, instead of prayer.

I see no problem with advertising along the highways and hedges of those who are spiritually lost. The whole history of salvation has been one giant appeal to our humanity and our frailties.

 

[Allegra]

It isn’t the music. It’s the way they are advertsing the Jazz Mass as an entertainment event, instead of prayer.

So, they’ll find out about the praying when they get there. Certainly the church has other Masses. Those who think they can’t pray to jazz music can spend two weeks getting to know parishoners that attend another Mass. It’s fun. I always like chilling with the 7-ists, and the 8:30-ists at my church. (The noonists are a little too liberal for me though…)

 

[PatriceA]

Being Catholic and if I was attending the jazz festival, I would certainly be interested in attending one of these Masses.

 

[ejp123]

Classical, Jazz, Heavy Metal, Disco, Funk who cares!! Jesus is still present! Mass is a celebration, is it?

 

[AveMaria12]

It’s the Mass! Jazz is good, but not in the context of liturgy. Music for the Mass must have, “…the sense of prayer, dignity, and beauty…” Pope John Paul II. “Therefore sacred music is to be considered the more holy in proportion as it is more closely connected with the liturgical action, whether it adds delight to prayer, fosters unity of minds, or confers greater solemnity upon the sacred rites.” Vatican II Sacrosanctum Concilium.

Jazz and more modern genres tend to play on feelings rather than help us lift our hearts to the Lord in prayer.

Jazz Mass? Road to Hell.

 

[AveMaria12]

Classical, Jazz, Heavy Metal, Disco, Funk who cares!! Jesus is still present! Mass is a celebration, is it?

Mass is a celebration, but, first and foremost, a sacrifice. The sacrificial aspect must take precedence. Would any of us want to play disco or heavy metal at the foot of the Cross?

 

[929dad]

Mass is a celebration, but, first and foremost, a sacrifice. The sacrificial aspect must take precedence. Would any of us want to play disco or heavy metal at the foot of the Cross?

That’s not the right metric to use. We wouldn’t play Easter or Christmas music there either.

All of the assertions that Jazz doesn’t fit the character of liturgy is personal opinion. As someone who studied music history, the critique of contemporary styles is nothing new. Critics of the Classical Period longed for the music of the Baroque, for example.

 

[ejp123]

Mass is a celebration, but, first and foremost, a sacrifice. The sacrificial aspect must take precedence. Would any of us want to play disco or heavy metal at the foot of the Cross?

it is in the eye of the beholder. what moves one might not move another. frankly, i think much of liturgical music is boring and lame. but it is the prayer, meaning and words that matter. Heavy metal at the foot of the cross you ask. why not? Trans siberian orchestra does some of the most profound versions of heavy metal “holy music” that i personally have ever heard. and would go beautifully at a mass and before the manger.

 

[AveMaria12]

But each genre of music has a different “focus.” Certain types of music is more focused on an angry emotion, for example. Modern music is legitimate if it meets the standards laid down by the Church (Already listed above).
The reason why heavy metal is illegitimate -along with other types- is because it is a genre that is focused on anger and the animal feelings. Prayer isn’t about feelings, it is about talking to God. If a music genre isn’t compatible with contemplation, it isn’t fit for the Mass.

 

[AveMaria12]

POPE BENEDICT ON MUSIC:

On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus).

It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal.

“Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe.

The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober ine*briation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. [The Spirit of the Liturgy, (SF, CA: Ignatius, 2000), p 148]
Should apply for Jazz as well. Jazz is cool and funky, which is good. But there’s a time for everything.