Opinions of the New Mass Translation [edited]

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See, that’s why there needs to be liturgical catechesis before these translations get used, or else people are going to think the wrong things about them. The reply et cum spiritu tuo is not an exclusive statement regarding the priest’s soul or spirit. You can see my previous reply for the explanation.
Well, I definitely agree that further catechesis is needed. Some of the replies so far have been helpful.
Do you think that people, for 1900+ years, have been saying a “stupid” thing in the liturgies spoken in Greek and Latin? I’d bet the Aramaic liturgies use “spirit” too.
That depends. What is the initial greeting of the Priest in these liturgies? If it is “The Lord be with you”, then I would have to say yes. After reading some of the followups, I can understand the greeting to spirit. What I can’t understand is why the priest does not greet to spirit to the congregation in the same way. Why doesn’t the priest give us this greeting:

“The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen”

That, I think would set the tone of the liturgy in a powerful way that is lacking now. Reducing the priest’s greeting to “The Lord be with you” renders the exchange of greetings as, at best, very awkward sounding.
Please accept that there are some things you simply might not understand the first time you hear or read them. It might not “come to you” immediately, and you might come up with the wrong explanation. That is why Vatican II called for the liturgical catechesis of the laity and clergy: so that they would KNOW what they were saying and doing and hearing. Too bad that got ignored in the tumult of changes that occurred in the latter half of the 1960’s.
Well, I would agree again that catechesis, especially to those like myself who grew up in the post Vatican II malaise, has been sorely lacking. Perhaps that also colors my opinion of why I find it hard to have much of a favorable opinion of a new mass translation. Most of the people in the pews today are just going through the motions, following a script every Sunday. Most don’t really even understand the importance of the various parts and those who do still bother to show up on Sundays do so more so as a matter of social habit. In light of that failure to educate a whole generation of Catholics, spending a bunch of time and energy on changing words feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

I know as much about these proposed changes to the liturgy from listening to Catholic Answers and other Catholic media. I’d be willing to be that >90% of Catholics in the US have no idea that this is coming and I don’t get any kind of sense that the USCCB is planning to make a proper effort to get the faithful to buy into these changes. I wonder how many rank and file priests even know this is coming.
 
What is the initial greeting of the Priest in these liturgies?
In the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the priest says “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all” and “May the mercies of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ be with you all.”

In the Divine Liturgy of St. James, the priest says “The love of the Lord and Father, the grace of the Lord and Son, and the fellowship and the gift of the Holy Spirit, be with us all” and “The grace and the mercies of the holy and consubstantial, and uncreated, and adorable Trinity, shall be with us all.”

In the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, the priest says “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God the Father and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” and “May the mercies of our great God and Savior Jesus Christbe with you all.”

In the Extraordinary Form (the traditional Roman liturgy), the greeting is simply “The Lord be with you.” In the Ordinary Form, there are four greetings. The priest can say “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all” or “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” or “The Lord be with you.” A bishop can say “Peace be with you.”

All of those greetings are common Biblical greetings.

I can do some research, if you wish, to find out why and when the Roman greeting became the short “The Lord be with you” rather than one of the longer ones.
What I can’t understand is why the priest does not greet to spirit to the congregation in the same way.
Because we aren’t ordained. The emphasis on “spirit” in the greeting has to do with the priestly charism received in the sacrament of Holy Orders. We don’t have that same charism. The response “and with your spirit” is ancient.
Well, I would agree again that catechesis, especially to those like myself who grew up in the post Vatican II malaise, has been sorely lacking. Perhaps that also colors my opinion of why I find it hard to have much of a favorable opinion of a new mass translation. Most of the people in the pews today are just going through the motions, following a script every Sunday. Most don’t really even understand the importance of the various parts and those who do still bother to show up on Sundays do so more so as a matter of social habit.
Which is why I’ve written a book that should be getting published this summer. It’s a mystagogical catechesis on the Mass, the kind which has been called for since Vatican II. It’s especially needed now that there’s a new translation. My book explains why we say what we say, where it comes from, and what it means.
In light of that failure to educate a whole generation of Catholics, spending a bunch of time and energy on changing words feels like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
What about the constant changing of words that takes place in our daily life? Politically-correct lingo, and stuff like it. It can change a person’s way of thinking. The language is not the only thing that should be different. If the language is more refined and sacred, the attitude should follow. The external can affect the internal (and vice versa).
I’d be willing to be that >90% of Catholics in the US have no idea that this is coming and I don’t get any kind of sense that the USCCB is planning to make a proper effort to get the faithful to buy into these changes. I wonder how many rank and file priests even know this is coming.
If priests and people don’t know, that’s the fault of their bishops, simply put. And the Catholics who do know are using the internet to take those bishops to task!
 
Japhy":
Do you think that people, for 1900+ years, have been saying a “stupid” thing in the liturgies spoken in Greek and Latin? I’d bet the Aramaic liturgies use “spirit” too.
Yes the Aramaic Liturgies use the “Spirit” too. All the Liturgies follow the Aramaic, since Christ spoke this language.
 
japhy;5367981 said:

.

Alright, but let’s go back to the source referenced in the translation white book:

5 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen” (Gal 6:18).

This greeting was the conclusion to the letter Galatians. I see nothing that suggests Paul was only addressing the ordained among them.

japhy;5367981 said:

we say what we say, where it comes from, and what it means.

Now that I look forward to. Especially since I returned to the Church on my own, I have been working to learn, in many cases for the first time, the faith that I was raised in.

japhy;5367981 said:

change a person’s way of thinking. The language is not the only thing that should be different. If the language is more refined and sacred, the attitude should follow. The external can affect the internal (and vice versa).

I find it odd that you would bring changing language into this discussion. Language is something that changes organically over time. Forced changes, like the “political correctness” movement run into a lot of resistance. In any case, what is being proposed is an effort to fight against changes in language and reverting back to something that has fallen out of disuse.

I think we need to be careful in attaching to much importance to what words are used in the liturgy and should throw around a word like “sacred” very carefully. We are talking about a man made script for worship, not infallible doctrine nor the inspired word of God (though, of course, that inspired word is used through the liturgy). While continuity and precedent should be given some weight, I would reject an appeal based primarily on the notion that we did it that way for a long long time.

Maybe these changes will help, but I think it’s going to take a serious commitment to adult catechism, hopefully with books such as yours as learning tools, to improve things.
 
This greeting was the conclusion to the letter Galatians. I see nothing that suggests Paul was only addressing the ordained among them.
In its original context, sure. But the Church – and not just the Roman Church, but the whole Church – has used such a greeting (“and with your spirit”) for her ordained ministers. Historians have produced that explanation, and I’m inclined to believe them.
Language is something that changes organically over time. … what is being proposed is an effort to fight against changes in language and reverting back to something that has fallen out of disuse.
While vernacular languages change over time, Latin stopped changing some time ago, which is why the Latin text of the Missal from 1969 has barely changed, and why the Latin text of the Missal of 1570 changed so little between then and 1962. Yes, the rite itself underwent organic developments, but not because Latin words had changed their meaning.

I contest that the English translation from 1969 which is still around today was, in many ways, a failure to translate and rather an exercise in selective interpretation. Consider that the Italian, French, Spanish, and German translations of the 1969 all rendered “and with your spirit” accurately (E con il tuo spirito; Et avec votre esprit; Y con tu espíritu; Und mit deinem Geiste). The only major language to fail to do so was English… and yet if you look at a private missal from the 40s, 50s, or 60s – or even the short-lived English Mass of 1965 – you’ll see “and with your spirit”.

It is not that “and with your spirit” has “fallen out of disuse”. Rather, it was thrown out unjustly. It was considered too arcane and old-fashioned for modern English-speakers to understand. And as for “reverting back to something that has fallen out of disuse,” I call your attention to Vatican II’s Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, which said:
The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that … elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the vigor which they had in the days of the holy Fathers, as may seem useful or necessary. (CSL 50)
I would classify the present English translation as an “accident of history”. It’s less of a translation and more of an interpretation-explanation. Whole words, concepts, and sentences of the Latin text are dropped. Some of the Latin is absolutely butchered.
I think we need to be careful in attaching to much importance to what words are used in the liturgy and should throw around a word like “sacred” very carefully. We are talking about a man made script for worship, not infallible doctrine nor the inspired word of God (though, of course, that inspired word is used through the liturgy). While continuity and precedent should be given some weight, I would reject an appeal based primarily on the notion that we did it that way for a long long time.
The Church does have a sacred vocabulary… in Latin. The same must be cultivated in the vernacular; that’s what Liturgiam Authenticam says. And the liturgy is not a wholly human “script”. The earthly liturgy is a participation in the heavenly liturgy (people like Scott Hahn have pointed out the similarities between the Eucharistic liturgies of the Church and the book of Revelation), and it is rightly called in the Eastern tradition the “Divine Liturgy”. It is the action of the whole Christ, head and body; in that sense, it shares in the glory and mystery of his hypostatic union: it is both fully human and fully divine.

What we say at Mass is doctrinal, and as such we must make sure it is accurate. It is inaccurate to say Jesus “by the power of the Holy Spirit [was] born of the Virgin Mary and became man.” Jesus became man at his conception, at his incarnation, and not at his birth. The word “born” (natus) appears nowhere in the Latin or Greek Nicene Creed, so why does it appear in the present English translation? The whole Creed is a identity-faith-prayer (like the Jews’ Shema) which states what the Church believes. And when the Church uses texts from Scripture (slightly modified in some cases, yes) in the words of the liturgy, it is important that the Church’s choice of words be respected, if only so that the connection between the liturgy and the inspired word of God be manifest to her people. (Catholic biblical knowledge is on the rise, thank God.)
While continuity and precedent should be given some weight, I would reject an appeal based primarily on the notion that we did it that way for a long long time.
Yes, antiquarianism is rejected as a basis for liturgical development. See Pope Pius XII’s Mediator Dei about that. And yet, the fact that we were still doing the liturgy essentially the same way for centuries and centuries should be a sign that it wasn’t wrong in form. There has been much written on the organic development of the liturgy.

Many people like to say that the reformed Mass liturgy is closer to the early Church, as if “older” is necessarily “better”. That’s antiquarianism. There’s a reason why the liturgy developed, and simply rolling back centuries of development is mechanical and inorganic. The funny thing is, liturgical progressives are thrilled to do something the way they imagine it was done in the first few centuries, but cannot stand to do something the way it was 50 years ago. (Their threshold for recent past goes back only 40 years.) Perhaps they just want to avoid things that feel “Roman”, which is an odd way to react to the Roman Rite.
 
If you’ve got a half hour or so on spare, I suggest reading this blog post of mine. It’s a response to a Mr. Paul Collins of the Australian group “Catholics for Ministry”. He expressed several concerns with the new translation (“and with your spirit”, the Penitential Act, the Gloria, the Creed, the preface dialogue, the consecration of the wine, and the Our Father), and I responded to each one.
 
The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that … elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the vigor which they had in the days of the holy Fathers, as may seem useful or necessary. (CSL 50)
I would classify the present English translation as an “accident of history”. It’s less of a translation and more of an interpretation-explanation. Whole words, concepts, and sentences of the Latin text are dropped. Some of the Latin is absolutely butchered.
Japhy,

This is excellent. 👍 I hope that in 50 years, we can look back at the 1969 translation as an unfortunate accident of history and settle into language and sacrament more wholeistically celebrated.
 
Japhy,

This is excellent. 👍 I hope that in 50 years, we can look back at the 1969 translation as an unfortunate accident of history and settle into language and sacrament more wholeistically celebrated.
Or, as I say when traveling the streets of my city, a pothole in that long stretch of road.😃 At least Vox Clara and the new ICEL, as well as the CDWDS are preventing this pothole from becoming a sinkhole!:thumbsup!👍
 
I know as much about these proposed changes to the liturgy from listening to Catholic Answers and other Catholic media. I’d be willing to be that >90% of Catholics in the US have no idea that this is coming and I don’t get any kind of sense that the USCCB is planning to make a proper effort to get the faithful to buy into these changes. I wonder how many rank and file priests even know this is coming.
And that’s why we have to be a bit “militant”. 🙂 There has been complete silence in my diocese from the Cardinal and the priests. But I tell everyone I know at Church and at my kids’ Catholic school, my CCE classes and even sitting around chatting to people. So, in my little world, I am sure I have whittled that 90% number down quite a bit. If even some of those people tell others, who tell others, etc. we can start a little buzz. People will start asking questions and the Church leaders will have to respond.

I have to admit, I am a bit ticked off at the laid-back attitude of the USCCB on the education part of this. At the very least, they should have told the publishers to put a hold on large sales of non-disposable Missals. Some parishes are going to be squeezed if they just outfitted the pews with new ones that are only good for a year or so.

BTW, I found this interesting article. It shows how a parish can practice good preparation of habits and attitudes.

catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=2788&canal=News+%26+Media&grupo=News
 
And that’s why we have to be a bit “militant”. 🙂 There has been complete silence in my diocese from the Cardinal and the priests. But I tell everyone I know at Church and at my kids’ Catholic school, my CCE classes and even sitting around chatting to people. So, in my little world, I am sure I have whittled that 90% number down quite a bit. If even some of those people tell others, who tell others, etc. we can start a little buzz. People will start asking questions and the Church leaders will have to respond.

I have to admit, I am a bit ticked off at the laid-back attitude of the USCCB on the education part of this. At the very least, they should have told the publishers to put a hold on large sales of non-disposable Missals. Some parishes are going to be squeezed if they just outfitted the pews with new ones that are only good for a year or so.

BTW, I found this interesting article. It shows how a parish can practice good preparation of habits and attitudes.

catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=2788&canal=News+%26+Media&grupo=News
Actually, your Cardinal has said a lot more about the subject thank folks realize. When they had the vote back in November, he came out urging his brother bishops to vote for the new translations. He has said more than any other member of the Texas delegation.

I urged my bishop to vote with the Metropolitan of his former archdiocese (my bishop was one of your auxiliaries before your diocese was elevated to the rank of archdiocese). I also sent him an email the night before last week’s vote urging hiim to please support the translations. He has not said anything at all to the priests and deacons, let alone the faithful. I sent a copy of the USCCB link to our diocesan superintendent of schools so that she can start preparing the students for the new translations.

I have been on twitter and plurk urging any Catholic who is following me on these networks to please write their bishops and archbishops and urge them to vote for the translations when they receive their mail-in ballots. If enough of us write to our bishops, it will certainly dispel any notion that the faithful don’t understand these translations and why we need them so badly.
 
Actually, your Cardinal has said a lot more about the subject than folks realize. When they had the vote back in November, he came out urging his brother bishops to vote for the new translations. He has said more than any other member of the Texas delegation.
And that’s what is so confusing. He has been quite outspoken in favor of the translation to his brother bishops. But what has come out to the priests, or the RE teachers, or the music ministers? That’s who needs the leadership and who will ultimately be responsible for the smooth transition. I can’t even find a passing reference to it on the diocisan website.
 
And that’s what is so confusing. He has been quite outspoken in favor of the translation to his brother bishops. But what has come out to the priests, or the RE teachers, or the music ministers? That’s who needs the leadership and who will ultimately be responsible for the smooth transition. I can’t even find a passing reference to it on the diocisan website.
The reason they are not saying anything is because they are waiting for the entire Missal to be approved. The CDW is also working with the FDLC and the Leeds Group in England on catechetical material, but again, those materials are dependent upon the entire missal being approved. The CDW does have a time table for catechesis and implementation and they do not want to rush things so that what happened in the late 60’s does not happen again…changes being made piece meal and no one knowing what to expect next. The Bishops want the entire country to be on the same page with catechesis so they are working on good quality materials. In fact, beginning this fall or early next year, they will begin a “train the trainers” program where priests, deacons and diocesan liturgy commissions can attend regional workshops to learn how to train those who will be working on catechizing people in the parishes and schools about the translations. It is a monumental task and the CDW is on it…not just sitting around waiting. This will also be an international effort as every English speaking country will be doing the same thing…The materials from England seem to be good, so why reinvent the wheel. There will by DVD’s, online materials, and complete catechetical packages that will be available to dioceses, parishes and schools.
 
The reason they are not saying anything is because they are waiting for the entire Missal to be approved. The CDW is also working with the FDLC and the Leeds Group in England on catechetical material, but again, those materials are dependent upon the entire missal being approved. The CDW does have a time table for catechesis and implementation and they do not want to rush things so that what happened in the late 60’s does not happen again…changes being made piece meal and no one knowing what to expect next. The Bishops want the entire country to be on the same page with catechesis so they are working on good quality materials. In fact, beginning this fall or early next year, they will begin a “train the trainers” program where priests, deacons and diocesan liturgy commissions can attend regional workshops to learn how to train those who will be working on catechizing people in the parishes and schools about the translations. It is a monumental task and the CDW is on it…not just sitting around waiting. This will also be an international effort as every English speaking country will be doing the same thing…The materials from England seem to be good, so why reinvent the wheel. There will by DVD’s, online materials, and complete catechetical packages that will be available to dioceses, parishes and schools.
This is reassuring but I don’t see why they are waiting. The propers have been approved. That means that virtually all the “people’s” prayers and responses are done. Most Catholics are in Church once a week, if we’re lucky. If they only start train-the-trainer early next year, they won’t even be close to catechizing the Catholic in the pew by Advent 2010.

I also don’t see why it is so hard to find any information on this. Do you have a link to the CDW timetable?
 
This is reassuring but I don’t see why they are waiting. The propers have been approved. That means that virtually all the “people’s” prayers and responses are done. Most Catholics are in Church once a week, if we’re lucky. If they only start train-the-trainer early next year, they won’t even be close to catechizing the Catholic in the pew by Advent 2010.

I also don’t see why it is so hard to find any information on this. Do you have a link to the CDW timetable?
The timetable is not published because everything is hanging on the approval of the full text and the recognitio from Rome. Once those are all approved it is going to take some time for the publishers to do their thing. The earliest they are saying is Advent 2010 but it could be Advent 2011. I have my information from people working with the CDW on this project and from people in Washington. It is called the Roman Missal Project. There is already some catechetical information ready to be published. You have to keep looking on the CDW site for updates and also on the FDLC web site but some of the info on that site might still be limited to members. There are four white papers going to be published by the FDLC. Four are already completed and one is in draft form. Once they are released they will be very helpful. There will also be bulletin inserts and as I said before DVD’s and complete catechetical packages.

They don’t want to rush it because it can be confusing to begin catechesis and then nothing will happen for a year or two. As someone said, the majority of Cathoics don’t even know this is coming down the pike. And it could cause confusion, like it did in South Africa where anxious bishops jumped the gun and started using the parts that are completed without approval to begin using them.

There is no need to rush this. The assembly’s parts are not that difficult. Most of the catechesis, believe it or not, will be for the priests, whose parts incur major changes.
 
In its original context, sure. But the Church – and not just the Roman Church, but the whole Church – has used such a greeting (“and with your spirit”) for her ordained ministers. Historians have produced that explanation, and I’m inclined to believe them.
Fair enough.
I contest that the English translation from 1969 which is still around today was, in many ways, a failure to translate and rather an exercise in selective interpretation. Consider that the Italian, French, Spanish, and German translations of the 1969 all rendered “and with your spirit” accurately (E con il tuo spirito; Et avec votre esprit; Y con tu espíritu; Und mit deinem Geiste). The only major language to fail to do so was English… and yet if you look at a private missal from the 40s, 50s, or 60s – or even the short-lived English Mass of 1965 – you’ll see “and with your spirit”.
Alright.
The Church does have a sacred vocabulary… in Latin. The same must be cultivated in the vernacular; that’s what Liturgiam Authenticam says. And the liturgy is not a wholly human “script”. The earthly liturgy is a participation in the heavenly liturgy (people like Scott Hahn have pointed out the similarities between the Eucharistic liturgies of the Church and the book of Revelation), and it is rightly called in the Eastern tradition the “Divine Liturgy”. It is the action of the whole Christ, head and body; in that sense, it shares in the glory and mystery of his hypostatic union: it is both fully human and fully divine.

What we say at Mass is doctrinal, and as such we must make sure it is accurate. It is inaccurate to say Jesus “by the power of the Holy Spirit [was] born of the Virgin Mary and became man.” Jesus became man at his conception, at his incarnation, and not at his birth. The word “born” (natus) appears nowhere in the Latin or Greek Nicene Creed, so why does it appear in the present English translation? The whole Creed is a identity-faith-prayer (like the Jews’ Shema) which states what the Church believes. And when the Church uses texts from Scripture (slightly modified in some cases, yes) in the words of the liturgy, it is important that the Church’s choice of words be respected, if only so that the connection between the liturgy and the inspired word of God be manifest to her people. (Catholic biblical knowledge is on the rise, thank God.)
I can definitely agree with you here.
Yes, antiquarianism is rejected as a basis for liturgical development. See Pope Pius XII’s Mediator Dei about that. And yet, the fact that we were still doing the liturgy essentially the same way for centuries and centuries should be a sign that it wasn’t wrong in form. There has been much written on the organic development of the liturgy.

Many people like to say that the reformed Mass liturgy is closer to the early Church, as if “older” is necessarily “better”. That’s antiquarianism. There’s a reason why the liturgy developed, and simply rolling back centuries of development is mechanical and inorganic. The funny thing is, liturgical progressives are thrilled to do something the way they imagine it was done in the first few centuries, but cannot stand to do something the way it was 50 years ago. (Their threshold for recent past goes back only 40 years.) Perhaps they just want to avoid things that feel “Roman”, which is an odd way to react to the Roman Rite.
Fair enough. You are winning me over and I appreciate you taking the time with these explanations. I’ve got your blog post opened in another tab and I shall read it over.
 
They don’t want to rush it because it can be confusing to begin catechesis and then nothing will happen for a year or two. As someone said, the majority of Cathoics don’t even know this is coming down the pike. And it could cause confusion, like it did in South Africa where anxious bishops jumped the gun and started using the parts that are completed without approval to begin using them.

There is no need to rush this. The assembly’s parts are not that difficult. Most of the catechesis, believe it or not, will be for the priests, whose parts incur major changes.
Based on your last several posts, I will proceed with cautious optimism that the USCCB has learned from the past and will do a better job bringing this revised translation to the people.

But, I think your last line there is a dangerous mind set. While the words are certainly not that different, as japhy has charitably corrected me, we’re not just talking about a script to be memorized. That is part of the failure of the current liturgy.

I would hope that most preists have enough theology background to embrace the revisions fairly easily. I think the laity are going to need a lot more catechesis if there is to be real understanding this time, not only of what we are saying, but why.
 
You are winning me over and I appreciate you taking the time with these explanations.
I’m glad to be of assistance. Let me know if my attitude crosses the line, please. (I’ve been learning patience recently.)
 
Based on your last several posts, I will proceed with cautious optimism that the USCCB has learned from the past and will do a better job bringing this revised translation to the people.

But, I think your last line there is a dangerous mind set. While the words are certainly not that different, as japhy has charitably corrected me, we’re not just talking about a script to be memorized. That is part of the failure of the current liturgy.

I would hope that most preists have enough theology background to embrace the revisions fairly easily. I think the laity are going to need a lot more catechesis if there is to be real understanding this time, not only of what we are saying, but why.
Most active preists today were educated after Vatican II. They are very used to the present translations. It is going to take some time for them to get used to the new translations. My own pastor, who was educated right before the changes, but never celebrated the Latin mass since it changed the year he was ordained, had difficulty reading the new translation. It doesn’t present a new theology but it is going to take practice. The CDW is planning on making DVDs of the text so that priests can learn how to proclaim the texts. It is not simply a matter of reading the text but saying them so that they make sense. The syntax is different that the current translation and it is not the way we normally speak in modern English. If said incorrectly, the meaning of the text can be changed. This is one of the criticisms of the text. Priests also need to know why this is happening. I gave a workshop to parish liturgy committees last fall, with priests present, and most of the objections I heard were from priests. The laity present just seemed a bit confused as to why this was happing but seemed a bit more open for the most part. I think the priests need to be on board as to why this is happening now, how to properly proclaim the texts and how to present this to their congregations. Also, those priests who are very much against this…and there are many who are…have to be persuaded to see the good that will come of this. One of the other things where priests need to be catechised, or re-catechised, is in following the rubrics of the Mass. This is the perfect opportunity to get rid of innovations and perhaps get our priests to begin celebrating the Mass the way it should be celebrated.
 
On the web under The Continuum and also under Bishop Trautman and the USCCB meeting it appears that the Bishop is against the New Mass. It says that Bishop Trautman is a leading public critic of the Holy See’s actions in liturgical matters and is a consistant advocate of a so-called “inclusive language in English translation”.

Apparently he seems to feel the new prayers will be above the heads of the average Catholic.

From what I have seen of the New Mass, it is quite an improvement in many ways and is much closer to the latin.

I think the average Catholic is much brighter than some of our Bishop’s opinions of us.

Of course change is always difficult, but everything was completely changed in the 60’s and the Bishops didn’t seem to think we would have any problems with those changes.

I rather like what I would call a higher form of the English language. Has anyone looked at the new version of the Mass and what do you think?

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
I think that the way that the liturgical reforms were imposed on us after Vatican II, including the translation of the New Mass , is a prime example of clericalism. The NAB is another example of banal language. As a lector, I often struggle to convey the meaning buried by the verbage.
 
Most active preists today were educated after Vatican II. They are very used to the present translations. It is going to take some time for them to get used to the new translations. My own pastor, who was educated right before the changes, but never celebrated the Latin mass since it changed the year he was ordained, had difficulty reading the new translation. It doesn’t present a new theology but it is going to take practice. The CDW is planning on making DVDs of the text so that priests can learn how to proclaim the texts. It is not simply a matter of reading the text but saying them so that they make sense. The syntax is different that the current translation and it is not the way we normally speak in modern English. If said incorrectly, the meaning of the text can be changed. This is one of the criticisms of the text. Priests also need to know why this is happening. I gave a workshop to parish liturgy committees last fall, with priests present, and most of the objections I heard were from priests. The laity present just seemed a bit confused as to why this was happing but seemed a bit more open for the most part. I think the priests need to be on board as to why this is happening now, how to properly proclaim the texts and how to present this to their congregations. Also, those priests who are very much against this…and there are many who are…have to be persuaded to see the good that will come of this. One of the other things where priests need to be catechised, or re-catechised, is in following the rubrics of the Mass. This is the perfect opportunity to get rid of innovations and perhaps get our priests to begin celebrating the Mass the way it should be celebrated.
Why should the syntax of the mass be what we use in normal speech? John McCain uses “normal speech,” and we see how dull that is. The language of the mass needed to be much more elevated, for some of the same reasons why a movie script/play has to use better language than we do in ordinary conversation. It should be memorable, and poetic. What we have is flat and, on top of that, eliptical . That priests are comfortable with this stuff is probably one reason why they are such boring preachers.
 
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