Opinions On The New Versions Of Mass Hymns

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I’m kind of lukewarm, but not complaining. You sing what needs to be sung for the glory of the Lord and rejoice in it. The melody is a minor detail considering that Christ comes to us in the Eucharist.
 
We are using the whole neo-chant package of ICEL Ordinary, Chabanel psalms, and the Simple English Propers for our Ordinary Form Masses. While I understand the rationale of “singing the Mass” vs. “singing at Mass,” I must admit that the more exposure I have to this stuff, the more I am loathing it, especially that Gloria. As an organist, I play for our Latin Mass (and thanks be to God, we have that option in our city), but I help out for the N.O. as well, so I am getting a good comparison here. The Latin chants of the EF require a certain level of skill to sing, but at least the melodies move around a bit. I am finding the new ICEL Gloria to be the musical equivalent of Chinese water torture, it is so static and repetitive. I’m having a hard time seeing how this music is supposed to be such a superior manner in which to offer glory to God, although it does beat out the happy-clappy stuff in reverence. But isn’t there a middle ground somewhere?! I look forward to exploring more options for the Ordinary as these become available, and in the mean time, I can always offer up my discontent as a penance.

I’m betting that Low Mass without music is going to become considerably more popular…👍
 
CarrieH said:
We are using the whole neo-chant package of ICEL Ordinary, Chabanel psalms, and the Simple English Propers for our Ordinary Form Masses. While I understand the rationale of “singing the Mass” vs. “singing at Mass,” I must admit that the more exposure I have to this stuff, the more I am loathing it, especially that Gloria. As an organist, I play for our Latin Mass (and thanks be to God, we have that option in our city), but I help out for the N.O. as well, so I am getting a good comparison here. The Latin chants of the EF require a certain level of skill to sing, but at least the melodies move around a bit. I am finding the new ICEL Gloria to be the musical equivalent of Chinese water torture, it is so static and repetitive. I’m having a hard time seeing how this music is supposed to be such a superior manner in which to offer glory to God, although it does beat out the happy-clappy stuff in reverence. But isn’t there a middle ground somewhere?! I look forward to exploring more options for the Ordinary as these become available, and in the mean time, I can always offer up my discontent as a penance.

I’m betting that Low Mass without music is going to become considerably more popular…👍
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Extremely jealous.

Anyways, the ICEL chants come from Jubilate Deo (I’m pretty sure they do), which was released by Pope Paul VI in the 1970s. They are very simple chants. By all means, if your choir can handle more, go for it. Get harder chants.
 
CarrieH said:
We are using the whole neo-chant package of ICEL Ordinary, Chabanel psalms, and the Simple English Propers for our Ordinary Form Masses. While I understand the rationale of “singing the Mass” vs. “singing at Mass,” I must admit that the more exposure I have to this stuff, the more I am loathing it, especially that Gloria. As an organist, I play for our Latin Mass (and thanks be to God, we have that option in our city), but I help out for the N.O. as well, so I am getting a good comparison here. The Latin chants of the EF require a certain level of skill to sing, but at least the melodies move around a bit. I am finding the new ICEL Gloria to be the musical equivalent of Chinese water torture, it is so static and repetitive. I’m having a hard time seeing how this music is supposed to be such a superior manner in which to offer glory to God, although it does beat out the happy-clappy stuff in reverence. But isn’t there a middle ground somewhere?! I look forward to exploring more options for the Ordinary as these become available, and in the mean time, I can always offer up my discontent as a penance.

I’m betting that Low Mass without music is going to become considerably more popular…👍
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I completely agree; I can’t stand that Gloria. We’re not using it at my parish, but I can barely even tolerate listening to a recording of it. That said, you will find that the ICEL Gloria is based on (and essentially equivalent to) the Gloria from Mass XV in the standard Gregorian kyriale. According to the notation in the Graduale, this Gloria dates from the 10th century.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Extremely jealous.

Anyways, the ICEL chants come from Jubilate Deo (I’m pretty sure they do), which was released by Pope Paul VI in the 1970s. They are very simple chants. By all means, if your choir can handle more, go for it. Get harder chants.
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No, the Gloria in Jubilate Deo is Gloria VIII.
 
MarkThompson said:
I completely agree; I can’t stand that Gloria. We’re not using it at my parish, but I can barely even tolerate listening to a recording of it.
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I’m glad I’m not alone here. At first I thought I was just being rebellious, but then I had a conversation with a colleague who is music director of a large church in a neighboring city. This is a man with a doctoral degree in music, who teaches musicology and conducts an early-music ensemble. He is a “chant-geek” if ever there was one, and even he can’t stand that Gloria! 😃

Both he and I are at the mercy of our parish pastors when it comes to selection of music. Perhaps, once they get enough static from the parishioners, they will let us choose another setting. In the mean time, we can look forward to Advent, when we will have four weeks of respite from that wretched thing!
 
CarrieH said:
Both he and I are at the mercy of our parish pastors when it comes to selection of music. Perhaps, once they get enough static from the parishioners, they will let us choose another setting. In the mean time, we can look forward to Advent, when we will have four weeks of respite from that wretched thing!
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Well, there is the feast of the Immaculate Conception to deal with. Maybe a Spanish Mass? 🙂
 
In response to the subject of new Mass Hymns-I’m in total agreement. Don’t like them at all. To me, I’d rather ‘say’ the prayers during Mass. If we are returning to the traditional Mass wordings, why not return to the traditional hymns?
Also, would not mind just the organ/piano playing after receiving Communion. With all the singing during that time, I feel it takes away from ‘mental’ prayer time with God.
Thank you for letting me vent my feelings. Have felt this way for a very long time. Actually,my husband and I totally agree on this subject.
Thanks again.
 
LauraJeanne said:
In response to the subject of new Mass Hymns-I’m in total agreement. Don’t like them at all. To me, I’d rather ‘say’ the prayers during Mass. If we are returning to the traditional Mass wordings, why not return to the traditional hymns?
Also, would not mind just the organ/piano playing after receiving Communion. With all the singing during that time, I feel it takes away from ‘mental’ prayer time with God.
Thank you for letting me vent my feelings. Have felt this way for a very long time. Actually,my husband and I totally agree on this subject.
Thanks again.
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The thing about it is, if you don’t like the new translation of the mass parts, then really, you don’t like the original Latin, because the new translation is much more in line with it. So it’s not so much as having a beef with what the parts say now, it’s having a problem with what they’ve always said, but many people are now just realizing it, because they had no idea what they really said before.

I agree with the part about saying the prayers rather than singing them. Say them the majority of the time, then sing the whole mass, both the Order and Propers, on Solemnities and a few other important days.

I also agree about returning to traditional music. The thing, though, is that modernists will hold on with all their might to the trappings of modern music. I think many feel threatened with the new wording of the missal.

About communion music. There has to be some sort of words said at communion. This can be either in the form of the antiphon (short, simple, two or three line song that is expressly permitted by the missal, which may or may not be accompanied by music) or a full-blown hymn (which is almost always accompanied by music).
 
I lead the new translation for the first time last night, except the Gloria which we are postponing through Advent. It went really well. There was some fumbling on “Lord God of Host”. I think Mass of Creation is well done in this translation.
 
CarrieH said:
I’m glad I’m not alone here. At first I thought I was just being rebellious, but then I had a conversation with a colleague who is music director of a large church in a neighboring city. This is a man with a doctoral degree in music, who teaches musicology and conducts an early-music ensemble. He is a “chant-geek” if ever there was one, and even he can’t stand that Gloria! 😃
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I was reading a book last night which made the observation that those languages whose word endings end predominately with vowels, such as Italian, are more singable than others. There may be some truth to that. For example, one can stretch out “Deo” in chant music but one can’t do it with with “G-d.” Just saying.
 
ProVobis said:
I was reading a book last night which made the observation that those languages whose word endings end predominately with vowels, such as Italian, are more singable than others. There may be some truth to that. For example, one can stretch out “Deo” in chant music but one can’t do it with with “G-d.” Just saying.
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This is true, indeed. I’m not a big fan of translations from any language; there are always issues with fitting the syllables to be stressed, ending phrases musically, etc. Square peg forced into round hole, and all.

I’m just waiting to see how the congregation responds in two weeks when we unleash the translated Credo III on them. :eek:
 
ProVobis said:
Well, there is the feast of the Immaculate Conception to deal with. Maybe a Spanish Mass? 🙂
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We will be doing a Solemn High Mass in the Extraordinary Form. Morning Mass will be a spoken Novus Ordo, so no problem there.

Today it occurred to me to count my blessings here. At least by using English chant, we don’t have those awful descants on the Psalm and Mass parts, with our three elderly former-prima-donnas quibbling over who gets to sing it each time! :slapfight:
 
What a disaster. For no good reason the words of the Mass have been changed. You could do the translation twenty times and come up with twenty interpretatons.

Now the music is ruined. And for what?

Aren’t there enough real problems for the church to focus on instead of trying to fix what is not broken? Every time they change the Mass, they take more away from it. Sometimes the church seems to be its own worst enemy.
 
Curtis C said:
What a disaster. For no good reason the words of the Mass have been changed. You could do the translation twenty times and come up with twenty interpretatons.

Now the music is ruined. And for what?

Aren’t there enough real problems for the church to focus on instead of trying to fix what is not broken? Every time they change the Mass, they take more away from it. Sometimes the church seems to be its own worst enemy.
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Wow, it’s like the entire last four pages of discussion never happened.
 
Curtis C said:
What a disaster. For no good reason the words of the Mass have been changed. You could do the translation twenty times and come up with twenty interpretatons.

Now the music is ruined. And for what?

Aren’t there enough real problems for the church to focus on instead of trying to fix what is not broken? Every time they change the Mass, they take more away from it. Sometimes the church seems to be its own worst enemy.
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I would put the blame on those who think they know better than Trent, Veterum Sapientia, Vatican II, and Canon #249.
 
CarrieH said:
This is true, indeed. I’m not a big fan of translations from any language; there are always issues with fitting the syllables to be stressed, ending phrases musically, etc. Square peg forced into round hole, and all.

I’m just waiting to see how the congregation responds in two weeks when we unleash the translated Credo III on them. :eek:
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Not to worry. We’ll fix the Anglos by singing “The Star Spangled Banner” in Spanish after Mass. 🙂

youtube.com/watch?v=f4gP_pSOCz4
 
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