Opinions requested

[FurtherSuntime]

Thanks ahead for any opinion which will be appreciated. This is very bothersome and I simply cannot be objective. It concerns my brother.

He is educated brought up in a Catholic home. There are 9 children. In his later teens he was influenced by a very devout and good deacon at the church. In result he became very religiously orientated , went to Rome and got a degree in theology…came back to NA and entered the seminary after a few months or so. After about a month in the seminary he left saying that he did not agree with the anti-Thomistic approach among other things…since then hes had trouble hanging on to jobs. I tried to convince him to go to teachers college but he’s stubborn and never takes advise on things. He got married and she left him. For the next few years…job…quit ect…Then he wound up doing kitchen cabinets and became quite skilled.

Now…hes lost that job. Who knows why…probably budget or something. Apparently some Co 1000 miles away offered him a job for measly pay and I just got word that hes leaving today in his beat up old truck…the email came in from the family to pray for him…

Heres the problem…my bros and sisters (most) including parents are basically loaded with cash…millions…For myself I am not a wealthy individual and miss quite allot of the get together.
Anyway…is this ridiculous or what? How can people say oh…we’ll have to say prayers for financial outcome and have very strong resources ( its all about money re this crazy situation)

He had a child and sent him to the mother along with all of his belongings…and all that he left with I’m told is a sleeping bag and the questionable road worthy truck…I had no idea he lost the job and would help with strong money if I was in a position…Is this ridiculous or am I being over judge mental thanks… written in a haste for some reason…anger I guess

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How do you know that your parents haven’t already tried to help him? Maybe they have, and he’s just wasted the money. Usually throwing money at someone who is floundering only postpones the problems. It may seem to be the solution but it very rarely is. Your brother is creating his difficulties - it’s more helpful to him to allow him the dignity to solve those problems himself.

I understand how frustrating this can be. Especially if there is a child involved. I think praying would be enormously helpful - if you feel very moved, maybe you could say a novena to St. Jude?

 

[FurtherSuntime]

How do you know that your parents haven’t already tried to help him? Maybe they have, and he’s just wasted the money. Usually throwing money at someone who is floundering only postpones the problems. It may seem to be the solution but it very rarely is. Your brother is creating his difficulties - it’s more helpful to him to allow him the dignity to solve those problems himself.

I understand how frustrating this can be. Especially if there is a child involved. I think praying would be enormously helpful - if you feel very moved, maybe you could say a novena to St. Jude?

Thanks and I can see your point if he was floundering money away and getting freebie handouts
but its not how the family operates. There were never any handouts and we paid for everything including private high school and books with jobs in the summer and so forth…be independent , the theme in all…thanks very much and for myself if I had been aware of this , I would have got involved somehow…anyway I guess life isn’t perfect…I will never pray for money on behalf of my family…its ridiculous under the circumstances…for a person whos willing to work…job-money …bad situation…all thats left is opportunity and circumstance’s…money-job-circumstances-opportunity…same-same…its all the same prayer…it seems an unjustifiable intence plead…perhaps a hopeful prayer but how can it be an intence recommended pleading prayer

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks and I can see your point if he was floundering money away and getting freebie handouts
but its not how the family operates. There were never any handouts and we paid for everything including private high school and books with jobs in the summer and so forth…be independent , the theme in all…thanks very much and for myself if I had been aware of this , I would have got involved somehow…anyway I guess life isn’t perfect…I will never pray for money on behalf of my family…its ridiculous under the circumstances…for a person whos willing to work…job-money …bad situation…all thats left is opportunity and circumstance’s…money-job-circumstances-opportunity…same-same…its all the same prayer

Are you resentful of your family for not helping you/your brother more? You paid for your own private schooling? That’s kind of ridiculous, IMO. I mean, to help pay for books and stuff with a part time job is fine, but a family’s wealth should be shared with all the members…IMO. Don’t mean the kids should have a total free ride, cars paid for and all, but, well, it seems odd to me.

What would you want your parents or siblings to do for your brother? Just curious as to what you see as a solution here.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Are you resentful of your family for not helping you/your brother more? You paid for your own private schooling? That’s kind of ridiculous, IMO. I mean, to help pay for books and stuff with a part time job is fine, but a family’s wealth should be shared with all the members…IMO. Don’t mean the kids should have a total free ride, cars paid for and all, but, well, it seems odd to me.

What would you want your parents or siblings to do for your brother? Just curious as to what you see as a solution here.

Not resentful at all…simply explaining the tone in independence set in the family. If I had known about this I would have tried to inspire help so he could not panic and go to a job so far away…This is in part what I fear…they may have kept the details from me knowing that I would have been doing some contacting to get a little bit of help going…I’m the most influencial of them all.

I really do appreciate the opportunity to rebound , and feel a little better … the situation is for the birds unfortunately

 

[Leegal]

Sounds like your brother is lost and searching. Even running from his problems, whatever they are. However, he takes himself with him.

As for the money, I don’t think even with great wealth it would have solved whatever your brother is lacking or struggling with.

I might have suggested that any money given might have been given so that he gets into therapy. That I would pay for. If he’s resistent, I don’t think whatever you thought money should have been forthcoming for him would have helped in this case. If your family has a lot of wealth, they could have set him up with his own cabinet making business, paid the rent for a location, bought the supplies – but he would still be troubled.

I would pray for him to see that he needs some form of counseling and that your family sees this too. That would be a real solution and the best use of any money they might be willing to give.

God Bless him. I hope you can stay in contact. And do pray to St. Jude for him in the meantime that he realizes that in order to better his life, he needs therapy and that your family comes through then.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Sounds like your brother is lost and searching. Even running from his problems, whatever they are. However, he takes himself with him.

As for the money, I don’t think even with great wealth it would have solved whatever your brother is lacking or struggling with.

I might have suggested that any money given might have been given so that he gets into therapy. That I would pay for. If he’s resistent, I don’t think whatever you thought money should have been forthcoming for him would have helped in this case. If your family has a lot of wealth, they could have set him up with his own cabinet making business, paid the rent for a location, bought the supplies – but he would still be troubled.

I would pray for him to see that he needs some form of counseling and that your family sees this too. That would be a real solution and the best use of any money they might be willing to give.

God Bless him. I hope you can stay in contact. And do pray to St. Jude for him in the meantime that he realizes that in order to better his life, he needs therapy and that your family comes through then.

This is un-believable…a person looses their job and , all of a sudden needs therapy…how can a person be running from their problems and need therapy when trying to find a job , winding up going for probably a useless situation far away…

The wife left the guy three years ago man. The guy simply wound up in a very common situation today re job ect…whenever it comes to family and money…everybody shys away…wonder why…yet check out all the seniors in the casinos…what a joke of a society…
yes prayers…Some people think this God is stupid

 

[FurtherSuntime]

As far as I’m concerned the greed in this world is disgusting and almost no-one is exempt who has well more then they need…You can’t say prayers for money related issues with one hand and another behind your back with a fist full of dough.

Its always the ones with one shirt that will give the shirt off their back to help someone. This economy and difficulties people endure to barely get by is inexcusable within the inter-connecting family wealth in society. Multiple 6000 sq foot homes for sale , boats cars all up for liquidation not for extra money but to make sure no more is lost in depreciation…

never never consider helping a family member…why, they are troubled and deserve what they get…I mean didn’t I have to learn the hard way…I don’t care if wages are an insult and there are few opportunities…I made my own money…you make yours…I will pray for your situation.

If God wanted you to have my money, he would have given it to you…but as we see I have it…its mine…go away…your family… ( oh…sorry if I’m hitting a nerve here

The amount of work that people do relative to purchasing power and the past is a joke. A house? ( which I have by the way and paid for cause Ive done reasonably well) A house is what 10 times more expensive relative to an average wage today and 35 yrs ago.

I knew and was about to delete this thread just before julianne posted that the members here would shy away from a charitable notion in hope for a good outcome…I knew it. The fact is when there is only one in a successful family of 9 who needs help due to the working climate…it DOES NOT take a spiritual minded person to help out…it only takes a DECENT person to be NORMAL and help out …

An indecent person says…go to god for help and don;t bother me…in fact I will ask and say a prayer for your success in being heard…oh and get some therapy while your at it…what a joke

Lets just call it a wrap on this and be done with it…alrighty then

 

[the_phoenix]

Hi FurtherSuntime,

I agree with you.

Here’s a Bible verse for the occasion:

“If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them, ‘I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty,’ without giving them these bare necessities of life, then what good is that?”

~~ James 2:15-16

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Hi FurtherSuntime,

I agree with you.

Here’s a Bible verse for the occasion:

“If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them, ‘I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty,’ without giving them these bare necessities of life, then what good is that?”

~~ James 2:15-16

Thankyou very very much for finding a good verse and the supportive gesture. This is exactly what I was hoping for and am not a bible expert. With this kind entry I can now settle and plan out what I can do. He left earlier today and I only found out late this evening . Hes traveling in that beat up van across the north and probably going to sleep in the van with his sleeping blanket so theres nothing I can do for a few days…I was having trouble organizing my mind due to anger and it has now with this post settled which will allow for a difficult but at least attempt to remedy the situation somewhat…they are a very indifferent bunch. I’m thinking already what I can do to try and get some aid together on my own as well showing support…You know I think people …or a person in this type of situation need to know people care…if its thought that help is possible and denied the weight of uncertainty would be much increased. I think I can approach with my full faculty now so …very much appreciated

 

[DesertSister62]

***FurtherSuntime said;
He is educated brought up in a Catholic home. There are 9 children. In his later teens he was influenced by a very devout and good deacon at the church. In result he became very religiously orientated , went to Rome and got a degree in theology…came back to NA and entered the seminary after a few months or so. After about a month in the seminary he left saying that he did not agree with the anti-Thomistic approach among other things…since then hes had trouble hanging on to jobs. I tried to convince him to go to teachers college but he’s stubborn and never takes advise on things. He got married and she left him. For the next few years…job…quit ect…Then he wound up doing kitchen cabinets and became quite skilled.

Now…hes lost that job. Who knows why…probably budget or something. Apparently some Co 1000 miles away offered him a job for measly pay and I just got word that hes leaving today in his beat up old truck…the email came in from the family to pray for him…***

---

Dear FurtherSuntime,

Not everyone has a strong idea of what they want to do when they become an adult. That is NOT a judgment, but an observation.***

Personally, I was the same way. I wasn’t one of those people who KNEW what they wanted to be when they grew up! So what do you do? You just take the next step and the next step until you come across something that seems to mean more to you than other things and you concentrate your energies in that area. I suspect that he is still searching and wants to do it on his own, or he would have asked for help. The fact that he continues to go through jobs would seem to indicate that. I realize that you would like to help in one way or another but sometimes we just have to stand back and let people go their own way. Despite your common upbringing, children in a large family can be very different from each other. I know, I have ten grown children of my own.

The fact that he sent his child back to his mother would indicate that he needs to be alone to continue his search for whatever he is looking for. It’s comendable that you want to be of assistence to him, but it is possible that your parents have made the correct decision in allowing him the time and distance to try to solve this dilemma on his own; and praying for him in the interim!

There is one other thing that is a possibility; despite his reaction to Seminary, Perhaps, God is still calling him to the priesthood.

DesertSister62

 

[1ke]

Your brother is smart and well educated. Yet he cannot hold a job, takes jobs that are menial and changes careers completely numerous times. He has a broken marriage, an abandoned stay at the seminary, and it seems from your post a pattern of blaming others for his misfortune (quitting jobs, leaving the seminary due to “anti-Thomistic views”, etc).

There are a lot of things wrong in this scenario, and money isn’t among them. Certainly your parents “could” give him money if they chose to. Certainly you might be right that they didn’t tell you to prevent you from rallying others to the charge. And you should talk to them about that if you are angry.

But consider… Could it be that your parents see what you do not? That your brother has some underlying issues that he needs to deal with.

Talk to your brother. Ask him if he needs help. Ask him if that is material help or moral support and a person to talk to. Ask him why he has a string of abandoned jobs, projects, and family members in his wake.

What is it you want others to “do” for your brother? Would that fix the situation if they did “do” what you want?

 

[1ke]

As far as I’m concerned the greed in this world is disgusting and almost no-one is exempt who has well more then they need…You can’t say prayers for money related issues with one hand and another behind your back with a fist full of dough.

Its always the ones with one shirt that will give the shirt off their back to help someone. This economy and difficulties people endure to barely get by is inexcusable within the inter-connecting family wealth in society. Multiple 6000 sq foot homes for sale , boats cars all up for liquidation not for extra money but to make sure no more is lost in depreciation…

never never consider helping a family member…why, they are troubled and deserve what they get…I mean didn’t I have to learn the hard way…I don’t care if wages are an insult and there are few opportunities…I made my own money…you make yours…I will pray for your situation.

If God wanted you to have my money, he would have given it to you…but as we see I have it…its mine…go away…your family… ( oh…sorry if I’m hitting a nerve here

The amount of work that people do relative to purchasing power and the past is a joke. A house? ( which I have by the way and paid for cause Ive done reasonably well) A house is what 10 times more expensive relative to an average wage today and 35 yrs ago.

I knew and was about to delete this thread just before julianne posted that the members here would shy away from a charitable notion in hope for a good outcome…I knew it. The fact is when there is only one in a successful family of 9 who needs help due to the working climate…it DOES NOT take a spiritual minded person to help out…it only takes a DECENT person to be NORMAL and help out …

An indecent person says…go to god for help and don;t bother me…in fact I will ask and say a prayer for your success in being heard…oh and get some therapy while your at it…what a joke

Lets just call it a wrap on this and be done with it…alrighty then

I don’t think that anyone has said “don’t help” and “he deserves what he gets”. I think what people are saying is that there is something underlying the issue here. If you give him money and he has a mental health issue, the money isn’t going to solve the mental health issue.

ASK him what he needs. He may tell you he needs money. He may tell you he needs your support and friendship. Dig below the surface-- is he depressed, does he have some sort of mental health issue, does he need some tough love to tell him he has responsibilities to his wife and child? I don’t know him, of course, I only know what you have posted.

When people here give their advice (which you asked for by the way) they can only go on what you’ve written. What I see from what you’ve written is a person who can’t hold a job, can’t maintain a marriage, and seems wander aimlessly. These are signs that something deeper is at the root of the issue.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thankyou very very much for finding a good verse and the supportive gesture. This is exactly what I was hoping for and am not a bible expert. With this kind entry I can now settle and plan out what I can do. He left earlier today and I only found out late this evening . Hes traveling in that beat up van across the north and probably going to sleep in the van with his sleeping blanket so theres nothing I can do for a few days…I was having trouble organizing my mind due to anger and it has now with this post settled which will allow for a difficult but at least attempt to remedy the situation somewhat…they are a very indifferent bunch. I’m thinking already what I can do to try and get some aid together on my own as well showing support…You know I think people …or a person in this type of situation need to know people care…if its thought that help is possible and denied the weight of uncertainty would be much increased. I think I can approach with my full faculty now so …very much appreciated

It sounds as though you care very much for your brother…In your position I would also be concerned. It is a difficult thing at best, to “help” an adult…in a manner that we ourselves believe to be best…I have known many people who would get very angry and insulted if even a close relative tried to to help them. They feel that they are being treated as a child instead of someone with their own dignity.

And then there are others, who can become child-like and dependent when assistance is offered. That stunts their growth as adults. My sister was one of those. My dad always felt somehow more responsible for her foibles and tried to help her…My sister can be a hard worker, unless she has a handout, and then she will count on that and relax knowing that someone else is paying her tab. I think she’s very human like that. Daddy didn’t have much money, but he ended up taking out a second and I believe a third mortgage on the house in order to pay her out of car loans he co-signed for. It went on until my stepmom threatened to leave him (they couldn’t afford to subsidize her and my nephew). Finally my father gave her a last contribution and told her “That is IT!”

Anyway, sorry to go on about my family.

I will add you and your brother to my prayers. I’m really sorry he felt the need to leave his child and move across the country to get a job.

 

[agnes_therese]

If I had known about this I would have tried to inspire help so he could not panic and go to a job so far away…

It might not be panic. His life has obviously not been going well – perhaps he feels that going so far away will give him a new start, and an opportunity to turn things around.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Here are the charges in order to justify avoiding charity. This is amazingly dis-heartening, right here in a religious forum

1. The brother cannot hold down a job

I said he had become very skilled at kitchen cabintry…that takes time…hes been doing 60-100 thousand dollar kitchens , very good at it, enjoys it , and as well these guy buy all their own tools.
Therefore a good vocation of this trade has been fully accepted and it was going well…nothing, absolutely nothing I said contradicts this as a matter of fact I clearly said he has become quite skilled at this profession…that my friends obviously takes time ect ect

1. He left the seminary , suggesting confusion ect

So what?..they were ordering cases of beer a couple of times a week and it seemed more of a joke then a seminary…I went over there and ya…guess what cases of empties all over the place…they avoided proper teaching as well…so he went to a third world country and did volunteer work teaching religion…some friends of the family know the bishop in the country…
you guys really like to lay the charges on without asking questions before being so judge mental …all to avoid simple charity…

1. He left his kid with his mother and wants to be alone to figure things out.

Ya…heart breaking eh?..I can just imagine the scene. You guys seem to advance in wanting to imagine some kind irresponsible bum who’s taking off on his kid…if you knew the history here you would be ashamed for these thoughts…esp without asking questions…I’m not going to go into the connection and good attachment that those to have…he is so attentive to that kids nurturing, development, schooling , health and well being it is ridiculous…Everything was for the kid…he left all his stuff …Big TV…high end computer, everything over to the kid…he could of put that stuff in the van…no he did not want the kid to be without…hes got everything figured out with regards to priority’s in the role of father…don’t kid yourself to look for reasons to deny …this is absolutely unbelievable

1. His life has not been going well, other added inferences of mental health problems…( My God…where is this coming from…not going well …or I would say more obvious the status of this world is not going well…maybe society needs some therapy…isn’t that the big draw for all the complaining these days? society has no morals and on and on…send your un-conscionable employers to the shrink thank-you very much

I’ll have you all know that mature and responsible people do not ask for financial assitance.,…the situation is made known…and if no one has the gumption to feel the pain…well then whats the point? So all those arguments about asking-giving are as well allot of bunk.
He wouldn’t of asked …ok. Its not how it works ion this family…no questions again just accusatory natured guess’s searching and searching for ways to nail excuse’s and charges to avoid a charitable gesture…including history…twisting imagined scenarios around to qualify ignorant un-knowing opinion, never inquiring. What the heck is wrong with society?

Since all people want to do is look for charges rather then ask questions or explore constructive ideas, it is difgicult to take most of these attempts at overview and guidance seriously…would anyone?

…forwarding problems to God is not how it works… no matter how habitual the practice may have become…its not supposed to be a habit…habits are thoughtless…please take care to think on this serious blunder…thankyou

 

[Leegal]

This is un-believable…a person looses their job and , all of a sudden needs therapy…how can a person be running from their problems and need therapy when trying to find a job , winding up going for probably a useless situation far away…

The wife left the guy three years ago man. The guy simply wound up in a very common situation today re job ect…whenever it comes to family and money…everybody shys away…wonder why…yet check out all the seniors in the casinos…what a joke of a society…
yes prayers…Some people think this God is stupid

Re-read the history. He’s been running for a long time. I don’t need to repeat it – it was there in the original post.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Geez…Defensive much?

You asked us for opinions, right? And so, based on what you told us, which you have since modified several times, we tried to give you our opinions. And you then focused your anger upon us as well as at your family.

I don’t know about the others, but I’m going to leave you to deal with your brother in whatever way you think is best. I have no more opinions to offer.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

Nothing has been modified at all. The opinions are depressing…

Because of these opinions I wound up asking some people I know about the situation whom Ive never discussed family with…so they basically had exact same info…I made sure of that .

They were Protestant people and basically come up with an absolutely different approach on this which I thought Id like to let you all know…Maybe in person people are a bit different…although the compassion was alive, where it is dead by and large in these posts.

I think what we have here is a generation thing…most members are prob retired and have children of their own, roughing this economic climate…Thats why I tried to delete this thread just before the first entry. I realized theres just no way there would be a good showing of support to get me going on this… I also sent a PM to one of the chief people here to delete the thread last night after I made the one thankful post…Why couldn’t you guys just leave it at that?

With respects to the retired in N/A…Low interest rates and retirement portfolio surprises would be a sure recipe for a disgruntledness… All the cruises and vacations in both winter and summer together with big fun treats planned, may not be all that available…add to it more than half the working world are in fact the children of retired individuals…dental guy wants what 500 bucks an hour…mechanic wants 90 bucks an hour …and every proprietor on every corner wants to pay 10 bucks an hour or what would be pocket change in order to become as wealthy as humanly possible…no doubt about it…
So when these inevitable hardships come about we have a …drive…to get the thing off the books without an expenditure. Save that portfolio…get as much as possible for that house and check out investments…Its like the older generation in my view are trying to amass an empire due to the fear of more loss and expectations…How many retiree’s are sitting on homes which they refuse to sell due to price drops? Yet they could afford the home with one wage driving a bus or something…Yet now a mid range accountant can’t even afford the ole bus drivers home…even if the wife works…who do these people think they are kidding? I’m not buying it for a minute. Not when the hardship is all over the working class… Pensions is another issue, and of course a hand out in most cases which exceeds many working peoples wages…So the seniors are making more money doing nothing while everyone bags the grocery’s for them and persevere with half a mouth of teeth and toothaches… My opinion…family member needs help sends up a red flag…get out without getting involved, if at all possible

I’ll bet parents have helped there kids over and over in this economy…no doubt about it. Over and over because the wages keep sinking …over and over…
So theres a tone set among the senior crowd generally speaking…hard to argue huh.

After I finish this blast I have some very important things to do directly related with this issue…It never ceases to amaze me how …when it comes to family help, people…try to search for an angle to wiggle out of conscience related detail…I was told a story concerning another situation today and it was ridiculous as well…People by and large are programed to work…virtually everyone wants to do well…trained and un-trained. When 65% or more of the jobs in a country are required by untrained or low training…the wage is simply pocket change…the job basically depletes whatever resources in hand…car…especially…So…how does the car get fixed to get to work for all these jobs which everyone takes advantage of? Thankfully I’m not in this situation and do not have personal complaints in this regard…so please …leave me out of it thank you very much…

Immigration toss’s a new twist on things doesn’t it? The immigrants from most countries are more family orientated …tend to hire each other if possible & are attentive to what…? each other more so, I would say in my experience.

Anyway Ive got things to do and was just getting in, thank you for the effort, it was interesting yet perfectly anticipated…you guys can close this thread any time as far as I’m concerned