Opponents of Haas and Haugen Unite!

[JKirkLVNV]

thann:

I love Rutter’s music and have sung much of it choirs. It is not congregational, though – most of it is very tricky to sing, at least for the average Joe.

'thann

Rutter is fantastic!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

JCPhoenix:

I’m sorry, I have to defend Haugen/Haas. While I don’t like ALL their music (I actually have never “met” a musicion whose music I love completely), I do tend to like a great deal of their music.

Condemn me to hell if you’d like.

.

Not hell, surely. Just a little time in Purgatory, chained to a chair, while the two of them strum their guitars and sing their entire repetoire to you…kind of a retrospective! I’m kidding, JC! Taste is, indeed, subjective. But the Church has so much richer a tradition of music than is being performed in congregations today.

 

[tom.wineman]

**As an after thought can anyone name the **
**exact number of the Psalm that uses the **
phrase "eagle wings?"

---

**All these 'Wing" songs are reminiscent of the **
1970’s with secular songs like "Beneath my Wings "
by Bette Midler were in vogue.

 

[kovalcik]

Just as a note, Eagles Wings was not written by either David Haas or Marty Haugen. It was written by Michael Joncas. (Sometime in the seventies I believe, long before Bette MIdlers Wind Beneath My Wings came out)

Scripture References: Exodus 19; Psalm 91; Matthew 13 Psalm 91 (NAB):You who dwell in the shelter of the Most High, who abide in the shadow of the Almighty, Say to the LORD, “My refuge and fortress, my God in whom I trust.” God will rescue you from the fowler’s snare, from the destroying plague, ** Will shelter you with pinions, spread wings that you may take refuge;** God’s faithfulness is a protecting shield. You shall not fear the terror of the night nor the arrow that flies by day, Nor the pestilence that roams in darkness, nor the plague that ravages at noon. Though a thousand fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, near you it shall not come. You need simply watch; the punishment of the wicked you will see. You have the LORD for your refuge; you have made the Most High your stronghold. No evil shall befall you, no affliction come near your tent. %between%For God commands the angels to guard you in all your ways. With their hands they shall support you, lest you strike your foot against a stone. You shall tread upon the asp and the viper, trample the lion and the dragon. Whoever clings to me I will deliver; whoever knows my name I will set on high. All who call upon me I will answer; I will be with them in distress; I will deliver them and give them honor. With length of days I will satisfy them and show them my saving power.

 

[tom.wineman]

kovalcik:

Scripture References: Exodus 19; Psalm 91; Matthew 13 Psalm 91 (NAB):You who dwell in the shelter of the Most High, who abide in the shadow of the Almighty, Say to the LORD, “My refuge and fortress, my God in whom I trust.” God will rescue you from the fowler’s snare, from the destroying plague, Will shelter you with pinions, spread wings that you may take refuge; God’s faithfulness is a protecting shield. You shall not fear the terror of the night nor the arrow that flies by day, Nor the pestilence that roams in darkness, nor the plague that ravages at noon. Though a thousand fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, near you it shall not come. You need simply watch; the punishment of the wicked you will see. You have the LORD for your refuge; you have made the Most High your stronghold. No evil shall befall you, no affliction come near your tent. For God commands the angels to guard you in all your ways. With their hands they shall support you, lest you strike your foot against a stone. You shall tread upon the asp and the viper, trample the lion and the dragon. Whoever clings to me I will deliver; whoever knows my name I will set on high. All who call upon me I will answer; I will be with them in distress; I will deliver them and give them honor. With length of days I will satisfy them and show them my saving power.

Sort of a shotgun approach.
I asked where the exact phrase
"Eagle Wings" was mentioned.

 

[kovalcik]

Exodus 19 vs 4

You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.

 

[amasimp]

I went to Mass at the Cathedral today. Before Mass, there was Adoration and Benediction. We sang the wonderful hymns, Tantum Ergo and Holy God We Praise Thy Name. Very nice.

Then during Mass, it was a total shift in gears. We had a folk guitarist lead us in a rousing rendition of “Here I Am Lord” the theme song of the Rainbow Sashers. I had to grit my teeth and bite my lip on this one.

To go from Tantum Ergo to that junk was almost too much. :bigyikes:

 

[otm]

tom.wineman:

Not the way they sing it. Psalm ? Sounds more like a sob.

I am not sure who “they” are, but maybe they don’t knwo how to sing it. I happen to think that it is a beautiful rendition of the Psalm.

And as to a sob, one of the worst excuses for liturgical music I have heard in a long time was a funeral Mass broadcast on EWTN wherein some group that appeared to know almost nothing of Gregorian Chant made one of the most abysmal excuses for a rendition I have ever heard. It was off-key (grossly in some parts), had no sense of the flow and timing and gave great proof that Gregorian Chant is something that is isolated to properly trained choirs.

I prefer something the congregation can sing and sing well.

 

[LarryM]

As an after thought can anyone name the
exact number of the Psalm that uses the
phrase “eagle wings?”

In Exodus 19:4 the Lord invokes the image of eagles wings
tell the Israelites: You have seen for yourselves how I treated the Egyptians and how I bore you up on eagles wings and brought you here myself.

The psalm or poetic sermon in Dt 32. Vs 11 reads
As an eagle incites its nestlings forth
by hovering over its brood,
So he spreads his wings to receive them
and bore them up on his pinions.

Looking at the Psalm 91, from which the song is taken
Ps 91:4 reads
With his pinions he will cover you,
and under his wings you shall take refuge.

Peace … and may the Lord bear you up, as on eagles wings
L

 

[Lamb100]

Thanks for this opportunity to vent and give some of our private opinions! Music, while not the source and summit of our worship, is so important and can lift the soul and change hearts. Tastes are also very subjective, though, so I hope any composers reading this take this with a grain of salt as just my own opinions.

At first I thought you all were getting carried away with your criticisms. While I long for more traditional music, I do enjoy modern Christian “Life Teen” type music. Also, as a new Catholic, it took me awhile to get used to the old Latin favorites like Tantum Ergo and Panis Angelicus. Now, however, I absolutely love them–partly because of the subject matter, the Eucharist, I think.

When I first became Catholic, I couldn’t believe how boring the music was at most Masses (not counting Life Teen–sorry, I love that stuff!). No wonder Catholics don’t sing! This has been creeping into Protestant worship, too, in the last 25 years or so, but fortunately, we (Presbyterians) still sang mostly great hymns (Protestants’ greatest contribution to the Faith–IMHO worth a plenary indulgence). Strangely enough–I’m really tired of Morning Has Broken, although my kids love it, and its melody is by Bach, right?

On Eagle’s Wings and Here I Am, Lord–I really don’t care for them at all, but they’re pretty good tunes, especially On Eagle’s Wings–it’s just that they’ve been overplayed, I think. Also, Here I Am, Lord drags so terribly I think everyone’s asleep by the time it’s finished. Here I Am–actually, I think the verse melody is exquisitely beautiful–it’s the chorus I can’t stand.

At least Catholics only sing 1 or 2 verses of anything…here, it’s an advantage. (Why is that, by the way? Makes no sense. Once, we sang a wonderful standard old hymn about the Trinity, and we only sang 2 verses. Poor Holy Spirit–neglected again!)

However! At Sunday Mass this week (Baptism of Our Lord), we sang something by Schutte from the Gather hymnal. And people…I studied music, and I was unable to sing this horrible thing!! No rhythm, no direction, wandered all over the place. Where is the glory, the sublimity, the majesty???

Sign me up for the club!

 

[Jamie_Burns]

I hope this doesn’t “ruin” On Eagles Wings for anyone, but…I used to find it one of the least offensive from the NEW OCP music. I liked the tune, but there was something about it, familiar but I couldn’t figure out why. A couple weeks ago (when we shoulda been singing Christmas) it struck me. It is a TANGO! (at least the way every organist or pianist I’ve ever heard from Oregon to Texas to Florida to Jamaica plays it).

Every Sunday night at Compline I have to keep that tune out of my head.

 

[pnewton]

*pro-life_teen*:

Sorry to be the ignorant one here, but exactly why is some of Haugen and Haas’ music so bad? Please explain!

Have you ever pulled up to a car that has its windows down and the music blaring? There is something in some people that think their taste in music is so perfect that they have to force what they like, on everyone else. Some of these folk have Haugenhaas’ed their congregatins to death. On the other side, we have those that would make everyone listen to only Gregorian chant twenty-four, seven under pain of ex-communication. Most of us are in the middle and a little more “live and let live.”

On a practical note, they are just too darn prolifiic. They have written a few good hymns along with a whole slew of mediocre stuff. Since they are on payroll of hymnal publishers, it is cheaper to include everything they pen than pay royalties for better stuff.

 

[tom.wineman]

kovalcik:

Exodus 19 vs 4

You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.

According to my bible of blah music, the Oregon Catholic Press song book, the Song On Eagle Wings is not Egyptian

---

It was composed by Michael Joncas and copyrighted 1971, the height of the secular “Wing Song” era. It also says it was based PS 91. Since there is no “Eagle Wings” in Psalm 91 then I suppose that was Michael’s invention.

 

[Lamb100]

See also Isaiah 40:31: but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.

 

[Lamb100]

On a positive note–did someone mention “Be Not Afraid”? Have to say I really love that one. It speaks to me personally of God’s love…“I go before you, always.” It comes to mind when I’m going through a hard time.

 

[Teresita]

otm:

I am not sure who “they” are, but maybe they don’t knwo how to sing it. I happen to think that it is a beautiful rendition of the Psalm.

And as to a sob, one of the worst excuses for liturgical music I have heard in a long time was a funeral Mass broadcast on EWTN wherein some group that appeared to know almost nothing of Gregorian Chant made one of the most abysmal excuses for a rendition I have ever heard. It was off-key (grossly in some parts), had no sense of the flow and timing and gave great proof that Gregorian Chant is something that is isolated to properly trained choirs.

I prefer something the congregation can sing and sing well.

Any congregation can sing Gregorian if they know it- it takes longer to learn than ‘Here I am, Lord’, of course. If you don’t believe me, go to the Oxford Oratory for the 11 am Latin (NO) Mass, and listen to the congregation singing the Kyrie or the Credo or the Pater Noster. You feel that you need to hold on to the roof in case it takes off.

Sue

 

[brotherhrolf]

I disagree. During Lent all of the responsorials are done in Latin and the congregation didn’t have the least bit of trouble learning the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Teresita: That was just that particular congregation. If you chanted Gregorian chant from the time your were a child (as I did) you would not have a problem. Chant was removed from most of the parishes. If you’re not exposed to it, of course it may be difficult. But surely there are a whole bunch of people in your parish who are over 50 and can recall their childhood.

 

[JCPhoenix]

amasimp:

I
Then during Mass, it was a total shift in gears. We had a folk guitarist lead us in a rousing rendition of “Here I Am Lord” the theme song of the Rainbow Sashers. I had to grit my teeth and bite my lip on this one.

To go from Tantum Ergo to that junk was almost too much. :bigyikes:

:bigyikes: “Here I am, Lord” is the theme song of the RAINBOW SASHERS! WHAT SACRILEGE! :crying: And quite honestly, if I was supporting what they are supporting, there is NO WAY I was do ANYTHING to call the attention of God upon me. Maybe they should change the lyrics to “Here I am, Lord, a wilfull and intentional sinner, and see? I’m thumbing my nose at you and your true followers.And I’m taking your Rainbow, too. What are you going to do about it?” And then change the music to techno thrash.

I LOVE that song! I never used to, but I have a cousin who volunteered in Appalacia for awhile, and it was one of her favorites. I ended up singing at her wedding last minute, and because that song meant so much to her and her husband, whome she met there, we sang it. We were rehearsing while they took their wedding photos and she turned around, crying, and asked us to stop!

That song has the same effect on me. When I was away from the Chruch and attended occasional Masses, EVERY SINGLE TIME I heard that song…and it reduced to to complete tears. God spoke to me through those words and to this day if I so much as read that verse in the Bible or hear strains of that song, I am turned into a puddle.

I know this belongs in another thread, but WE NEED TO TAKE BACK GOD’S RAINBOW AND WE NEED TO KEEP GOD’S MUSIC!! /rant. Back to regular programming.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Hmnm Hmmm:ehh: Here I am Lord? Is it I lord…uh? I have heard you calling in the night I I I night… Can we have Kermit and Miss Piggy come up? Sorry folks! I don’t mean to be uncharitable but this is not profound Catholic music.