Opposition to children

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I live by myself as a single person-why would you say it’s a ‘road to hell’? Just because I’m not ‘involved’ in social works, does that make me a bad person?
I disagree strongly.

God dosn’t always call people to social works. How in the world do you think that being alone means a road to hell???:mad:

Hermits spend all their time alone.

sometimes there are those of us called to be modern hermits of sorts. Those who can make their living in the world but not completey indulge in those frivilous things of the world. Sometimes this also means forgoing family life.

For instance, I know God is calling me through my single life to a much deeper relationship with Him that doesn’t involve any service to others. I’m not doing anything wrong. Its what God is calling me to.
 
magickman, I think you’ve got a good clear answers to your question but I just have a request to ask of you.

I’ve seen many of your posts re:children and you always use the term ‘childfree’. Maybe you don’t realize this, but that term was coined by people with venomous attitudes and intentions towards children, who advocate keeping themselves free of having to be burdened with children by any and all means necessary.

Perhaps a better term for you to use would be ‘childless’. Since we know children are a blessing, to be less them rather than free of them, seems more charitable.🙂

You know, I think many many MANY people, do not want children, or, they think they don’t. But I’ve known many who when meeting that right person, have their hearts opened up to them because of the love reflected in their spouse. I think this is especially true for men, but women too. Some of the best dad’s I know are the one’s who swore they’d never be dad’s, but their hearts were softened as they ought to be by their wives.

Just something to think about.🙂
I can see what your saying here but in my experience when someone uses childless I always get the impression that they are a person that wants children not someone who doesn;t want them. But I can understand your problem with the term childfree. Maybe it;s best to not use special terms at all and just simply say I donlt want kids.
 
There is a wide spectrum of thought about children, among Catholics. Some love lots and lots of children, and others prefer just a few, or even none at all. I think that Catholicism can accommodate all of those preferences.

At this point, I wish to distance myself from the childfree extremists. Some of them hate and disrespect both children and parents. I strongly disagree with their viewpoint.

I am just a single man, who never wanted to have any kids, nor to have a woman who had kids. I do not dislike children any more than I dislike elephants. But I do not want either kids or elephants in my home.

Clearly, I am unorthodox about marriage and children, and that is something that I have to live with.
 
There is a wide spectrum of thought about children, among Catholics. Some love lots and lots of children, and others prefer just a few, or even none at all. I think that Catholicism can accommodate all of those preferences.

At this point, I wish to distance myself from the childfree extremists. Some of them hate and disrespect both children and parents. I strongly disagree with their viewpoint.

I am just a single man, who never wanted to have any kids, nor to have a woman who had kids. I do not dislike children any more than I dislike elephants. But I do not want either kids or elephants in my home.

Clearly, I am unorthodox about marriage and children, and that is something that I have to live with.
MagickMan… I too am childfree. And I do not mean it disrespectfully (and it was NOT created out of disrespect towards children and families. That is a misconception.) I do not use the word “childless” since it implies I wanted them but just don’t have them.

There will be people who will always ask you to “consider your motives” - and many erroneously believe it is for selfish reasons that you do not want children. What I have learned is that people who have always wanted children, or people who have “maybe” wanted children, many times do not understand that there are people who, simply put, do not want children. Then you have some who said they didn’t want children and when they had them say many different things like, “I thought I didn’t want them” or some other such sentiment. That’s fine, that’s them. No one can know another person’s mind and heart.

I have not wanted children since I was a child. I grew up with comments like, “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” “You just need to grow up,” “You just need to find a good Catholic man,” and “You’ll change your mind.” They are wrong.

At 40 years old I have not changed my mind. Nor do I intend to. In fact, I have done far more introspection on children and whether I wanted them than some other people have. I have come to the same conclusion since I was a kid: I don’t want them. Period. I used to come up with excuses, but that is because people can’t handle a simple “No” and insist there must be SOME REASON because, surely, it’s UNNATURAL that a person does not want children! :rolleyes:

Generally speaking, people who have children or want them cannot fathom that there are some people who have no desire to have them. Some can understand, though most parents cannot. It’s worse for women since we have “the plumbing.” Surely, since we can create life, we must want children!

Uh. No.

Then men get the “you must carry on the family name” or “you need to grow up” or “he’ll change his mind when he sees his own child” lines. It’s tough all around.

At any rate, I want to say to not let anyone tell you you are being selfish. I have seen far more parents be selfish once they have children than those who have no children. (I can give some anecdotal “evidence” in my own life, but I won’t go into details here.)

Okay, all of that being said, here is a Catholic answer. (The above is my “secular” answer. 😛 ) All of this is said under the context of being Catholic - as this is a Catholic forum.

Marriage is a vocation. As with vocations, there may or may not be a calling to said vocation. Part of marriage is to be open to any possible life that God may bring into the marriage. i.e. You may, or may not, have children. Some people just end up infertile and it does not mean that their marriage is any less valid, as has been explained in other posts.

As human beings, of course we want companionship. We’re social creatures. We’ll probably find someone and fall in love and want to commit to them for the rest of our lives as we have found The One. This is natural. For some people, and I know a few, what is “natural” for them is to stay single. They are able to be of service for other people without the commitments marriage and parenthood brings. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now. What I am about to say is going to be tough. I had someone tell this to me and it angered me. However, over time, I have been able to accept this, considering that marriage is a vocation, and not just some “bff” thing. Your lack of a desire for children may very well be an indicator that you are not being called to the vocation of marriage, as understood in the Catholic church.

I’ll be honest here. I don’t want children. At all. Period. I don’t carry babies, nor do I babysit. However, were I to get married, and it would be a Catholic marriage, I would have to willing to accept the possibility that I may get pregnant. (A thought that, really, I just loathe.)

btw, I have met a Catholic man I do wish to marry. We have no plans on that, however. And he too does not want children at all. So. We don’t marry.
 
There is a wide spectrum of thought about children, among Catholics. Some love lots and lots of children, and others prefer just a few, or even none at all. I think that Catholicism can accommodate all of those preferences.

At this point, I wish to distance myself from the childfree extremists. Some of them hate and disrespect both children and parents. I strongly disagree with their viewpoint.

I am just a single man, who never wanted to have any kids, nor to have a woman who had kids. I do not dislike children any more than I dislike elephants. But I do not want either kids or elephants in my home.

Clearly, I am unorthodox about marriage and children, and that is something that I have to live with.
Magickman I have always seen a very honest and not at all disrespectful view of children in your posts regarding children, nothing less, which is why I felt the childfree term didn’t seem to fit what you’re saying about your feelings about having children. I hope that makes sense.

The term ‘free’ implies that you are ‘free’ because you aren’t burdened with something. Like disease free, cancer free. Conversely we wouldn’t say we are money free (moneyless, penniless) or home free (homeless).

To be without a child, is to be without a blessing, even if it is a blessing you do not expressly desire or actively pursue having. The term childless is more in keeping with the dignity or the human person. In using the term childless, you imply that there is a good there, just not a good you feel is part of your vocation in life i.e. marriage/family.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.🙂

ETA the definition of childless is “without offspring”. I think that fits no matter what the situation behind it.
 
…choking on my coffee here; Voradin, children are best avoided between the ages of 13 and 25…although at least one of my sons remained quite reasonable until he hit 22!

I had five - all have brought the greatest joy I could possibly have imagined, and one has brought such grief that I am still plumbing the depths. This has caused me to wonder whether I would have wanted children had I known the pain that was in store for me. I can answer yes, with absolute conviction.
I am sixteen myself 😛
Well yes I understand, but I love children now!
 
One way in which my children have been a gift to me is to make me less self centered. Unlike many people, I’m not a servant at heart. If I was childless, I would not be working at the soup kitchen, protesting at the abortion clinic, or doing any service for others. I’d be a very selfish single person. Caring for my children has made me more compassionate overall.

I can see why God called me to the married life. Living a daily life of service towards my family is necessary for my salvation.
I agree Leonie. While I didn’t feel like I was immature or selfish before I had my daughter, taking care of a baby is a transforming experience and I can’t imagine that I would have had the opportunity to grow as a person in quite the same way if I hadn’t been open to the gift of life.
 
And I have been able to transform and grow in ways I would never have imagined, had I had children. I have been of service to my family - when OTHER family were being busy with their children.

I know several other people who were of service to their family, and their parents, even when they were ridiculed by their parents for not “giving” them grandchildren, yet, those who did “give” them grandchildren were no where around to help.
 
I’m in the same boat. I love kids (most kids anyway) but would never want any of my own. I have a long list of reasons, not the least of which is I just have other passions and intrests in my life that would get in the way of my children being central to my life, which is how I would want it to be if I ever had a family. And I have no shame in saying that.

I’d be a terrible mother anyway.

What really confuses me, is when people ask me the question “Do you want to get married and have kids?” 🤷

I’ll only know if I’ll want kids if/when I meet the person I want to be with for the rest of my life, and I’ll only know if I want to get married if/when I meet that person, if he’s out there. The concept of wanting a family for its own sake is what just baffles me.

Anyhow…I’ll be interested to see how people respond to this question.
I have the same issue; I will hear time and again about other men having a life goal to “pass on their genes” or, better, “to pass on the family name” (don’t millions of people share the same last name?) as a goal in itself, something that really doesn’t make sense to me. Often I figuratively scratch my head and wonder how everybody but me could be on the same page.

I’m not a priori opposed to children, but would not consider procreation as a goal unless I already had someone to do it with; and am not actively looking. I am ok being single, but receive grief from others who think that I am “missing life” in some way. (Even in religious contexts, I sometimes hear a remark such as “we only have bodies so that we can be fruitful.” Ok, where does that leave me?)

If anybody truthfully has an aversion to children, they ought not have them and this should NOT be treated as strange or abnormal. (The world has no shortage of people.) That said, however, one has to ask why they want to marry in the first place. Certainly a firm opposition to procreation would bar marriage in the Catholic Church.
Code:
                                                                              God Bless,

                                                                                 GEddie
 
I certainly didn’t mean that there aren’t other ways to grow other than having children. However for those that have the vocation to marry (and while having children isn’t a requirement being open to life is) it is often a huge part of their spiritual growth. Those who have a strong aversion to the idea of children probably have a different vocation, in which I’m certain they’ll grow and blossom, just in a different way. The bottom line remains that to have a valid Catholic marriage one must remain open to the possibility of life.
 
One way in which my children have been a gift to me is to make me less self centered. Unlike many people, I’m not a servant at heart. If I was childless, I would not be working at the soup kitchen, protesting at the abortion clinic, or doing any service for others. I’d be a very selfish single person. Caring for my children has made me more compassionate overall.

I can see why God called me to the married life. Living a daily life of service towards my family is necessary for my salvation.

People who are called to the single life have to be more naturally sacrificial than those called to be married.

That’s why it’s important to know why you are called to each vocation. If a single person is living his life for Christ and not for himself, then the single life can be a beautiful way to serve God. But if a single person is living for himself, then it’s a road to hell.

My brother and his wife are married, but not open to children. They spend all their free time doing their hobbies. They are both very charming moral people, but they are living for themselves. Having children would teach them to live a sacrificial life, but they don’t because it would interfere with the life they have chosen. It makes me both sad and worried for them. IT’s not enough to be a good person; you have to live a life that glorifies God.

The single life dedicated to God is a beautiful one. If you don’t have a wife or children, you have more freedom–it’s important to use that freedom in service to others. Because I have children and a husband, I cannot do ministries that detract from my service to my family. I’m very grateful for those single men and women who use their freedom to serve society, those in need, the Church.
So you’re saying that it is impossible for a married couple to live morally and for God if they don’t have kids? I have a hard time believing that kids are the only way to reach a “sacrificial life.” Maybe some couples do not feel like they should glorify God by being parents themselves, but would feel more “productive” volunteering, working with others, or being available to help their family members with their children, while living a lifestyle they know they can handle. I could go on and on, but that wouldn’t be inline with Catholic teaching so I’ll stop my rant here so maybe you won’t be so quick to judge people as selfish.
 
My lifelong strong opposition to having children was a major reason why I did not seek marriage. There seemed no point to getting married.

But should I, or another commited childfree person, have wished to marry, would Catholic marriage be a possibility? This would be in the context that absolutely precluded parenthood.
Catholic marriage requires that couples be “open to life”, however this does not mean that they must have children. So when you get married, you have to be open to children, but then if you find there are good reasons for you not to have them you can practice NFP to avoid pregnancy.

Whether your reason is a good reason is between you and God.
 
It is particularly because the moral and decent upbringing of children is so important, that it ought mot be entrusted to people who do not want children.

Across our society, there are so many unwanted children. That is a tragedy. The social costs are staggering.

Much better, I think, for only wanted and desired children to be born.

My time of parenting age is past. I will never have any children. I am thankful for that.
 
So you’re saying that it is impossible for a married couple to live morally and for God if they don’t have kids? I have a hard time believing that kids are the only way to reach a “sacrificial life.” Maybe some couples do not feel like they should glorify God by being parents themselves, but would feel more “productive” volunteering, working with others, or being available to help their family members with their children, while living a lifestyle they know they can handle. I could go on and on, but that wouldn’t be inline with Catholic teaching so I’ll stop my rant here so maybe you won’t be so quick to judge people as selfish.
No, I didn’t say anything like that!!! What I said that **I, Leonie, ** that is, me without any reference to anyone else am a naturally selfish person. And motherhood has caused me to grown in this area of my life.

Then, I said that single people have more freedom to serve society than parents of young children do.

Please reread my post.
 
I disagree strongly.

God dosn’t always call people to social works. How in the world do you think that being alone means a road to hell???:mad:

Hermits spend all their time alone.

sometimes there are those of us called to be modern hermits of sorts. Those who can make their living in the world but not completey indulge in those frivilous things of the world. Sometimes this also means forgoing family life.

For instance, I know God is calling me through my single life to a much deeper relationship with Him that doesn’t involve any service to others. I’m not doing anything wrong. Its what God is calling me to.
We are all called, though to service, though. Jesus said that he would judge on the basis of it.

Matthew 25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37"Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40"The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Can you service as a hermit–yes, if your vocation is to prayer. What I said is that if you live your life for yourself it is a road to hell. If you live your life for God, then how are you living your life for yourself?

I’m having trouble seeing how my post can be so misinterpreted!!! People can be so prickly. I was trying to express that the single life is a beautiful opportunity for service to God. And, I get my head bit off…
 
Sorry Leonie,

I guess I picked up and ran with this quote you said:

“People who are called to the single life have to be more naturally sacrificial than those called to be married.”

In my mind I interpreted that as saying that single people can’t have children to show them sacrifice so they must be more naturally sacrificial. Therfore if you’re married, you must have kids to show you the way to a Godly life. Looking back at it it doesn’t make much sense does it! I’m one of those who feel am called to marry but am unsure of the having children part. When I voice this I get chewed out and told then I absolutely shouldn’t marry. I’m sorry if I got defensive and misread what you wrote. I’m glad you found the best way to live your life for God and it’s great that you found that through your children.
 
No, a person who has a firm intention against children cannot enter into a marriage validly.

A firm intention against children invalidates an attempt at marriage. It is a defect in intent.
Can you elaborate and cite sources? I have an interest in this as well. :cool:
 
Across our society, there are so many unwanted children. That is a tragedy. The social costs are staggering.
Much better, I think, for only wanted and desired children to be born.
Actually, this is a misconception. Many of the neglected and abused children in our society were wanted… . perhaps for the wrong reasons. No child is really unwanted, since there are so many couples seeking to adopt. There can be no distinction between “wanted” and “unwanted” children . . . God wants and values every child.

The only reason there appear to be unwanted children is that the foster care and adoption systems are so slow-moving, fragmented and wrapped up in bureaucracy that it takes forever for children to find the parents who will provide them a good home.
 
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leonie:
One way in which my children have been a gift to me is to make me less self centered.
Think it’s interesting that words have different meanings for different people - even when we are using the same language in the same country.

Some people are puzzled when I say that I see being self-centered positively. For me it includes knowing yourself, knowing what is important to you, considering other views and needs, and making decisions based on your beliefs not those that others consider you should have.

For many years (I am now well past child bearing age) I had people tell me that I was being irresponsible - that I should want to marry and have children and assuring me that as soon as I had a child I would want it and would be good mother. But having marrying and having children in that situation would be, I considered irresponsible, what about the effects on the child(ren)? - they are too precious not to have the best start in life. It isn’t pleasant to be told by your mother that having you ruined her life.
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leonie:
People who are called to the single life have to be more naturally sacrificial than those called to be married.
I have also got the feeling at times that some people consider that I should be out directly helping people to atone for my decision not to marry and have children. Sometimes the very characteristics that made us decide not to marry and have children limit the direct service to people we can give.
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leonie:
Because I have children and a husband, I cannot do ministries that detract from my service to my family. I’m very grateful for those single men and women who use their freedom to serve society, those in need, the Church.
And those of us who are single are usually grateful to those who marry and have children, for most of us do like to spend some time with children.
 
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GodIsGracious:
I have not wanted children since I was a child. I grew up with comments like, “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” “You just need to grow up,” “You just need to find a good Catholic man,” and “You’ll change your mind.” They are wrong.
I look forward to the day when those who want children are asked why they want them… Not to put them on the spot but so they think about why they want children. Not everyone who wants children will make a good parent.
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GodIsGracious:
I used to come up with excuses, but that is because people can’t handle a simple “No” and insist there must be SOME REASON because, surely, it’s UNNATURAL that a person does not want children! :rolleyes:
Also found it interesting that it is far more acceptable to ask those who have decided not to have children “why” than to ask those who have why?

I have been told that asking is too personal a question to ask them - after they have asked my why!!!
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GodIsGracious:
Then men get the “you must carry on the family name” or “you need to grow up” or “he’ll change his mind when he sees his own child” lines. It’s tough all around.
And of course, who will look after you when you are old. If that’s someone’s main reason for having a child – isn’t that selfish?
 
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