Optional Celibacy in the Priesthood

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Don9of11

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This might not be the correct forum for this kind of question but I figured this is as good as any of the forums to ask. I recently received an email from my brother asking me to support or open a meaningful dialog on Optional Celibacy in the Priesthood. His email included a link to web site that would allow you to send out e-cards or the modern equivalent of a postcard to various church leaders.

futurechurch.org/fpm/optcel/postcards/

The basis for this movement as he states is the shortage of priest and closings of various parishes and various different Popes who have been married throughout history. I believe he directed the email to me because my parish St. Mary’s is being closed next June and merging with another church St. Bernard’s; anyways. I wanted to know if any real discussions or dialog has been started in the church, their official standing on this matter and where I could direct him for more information on this subject. 🙂

Don
 
Don,

There has been no formal discussion of “optional celibacy” in the Church. Even in the Eastern Churches where priests may be married celibacy is not “optional.” A married man may be ordained a priest provided he is married before being ordained a deacon. Should his wife die he is then bound to celibacy (as is a married deacon in the Latin Rite).

Further, most experts realize that celibacy is not the issue in the number of priests. This is an incredibly complex issue and celibacy is simply one component among many.

Deacon Ed
 
Don9of11 said:
This might not be the correct forum for this kind of question but I figured this is as good as any of the forums to ask. I recently received an email from my brother asking me to support or open a meaningful dialog on Optional Celibacy in the Priesthood. His email included a link to web site that would allow you to send out e-cards or the modern equivalent of a postcard to various church leaders.

futurechurch.org/fpm/optcel/postcards/

The basis for this movement as he states is the shortage of priest and closings of various parishes and various different Popes who have been married throughout history. I believe he directed the email to me because my parish St. Mary’s is being closed next June and merging with another church St. Bernard’s; anyways. I wanted to know if any real discussions or dialog has been started in the church, their official standing on this matter and where I could direct him for more information on this subject. 🙂

Don
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There is no real shortage of priests on a global basis. It is only here in the US and another area of the world(?) It is not the issue of celibacy, but our attitude towards it that is the problem.
 
First, I have to say that no Catholic should get messed up with the group from the website you posted. Here is a snippet from their mission statement: “FutureChurch respects the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church and its current position on ordination and advocates widespread discussion of the need to open ordination to all baptized Catholics who are called to priestly ministry by God and the people of God.” Apparently this group thinks that the Church’s position on ordination of women is changeable.

I repeat, do not give this website the time of day, it will do no good.

As to your question, the tradition of the Roman Church is priestly celibacy. Why are we now having problems with a lack of priests if for centuries we had a celibate priesthood and we were fine? It is because celibacy isn’t the issue. The issue, as Deacon Ed said, is more complex than that. Part of the problem is that the role of the priest has been diminished. Priests are no longer set apart, and the laity don’t actually know what a priest is called to do by Almighty God. That is, of course, a very simplified reason, but I hope it makes sense.
 
I see nothing wrong with married priests, period, as long as they are married before ordination. There are already some in the Latin church.

However, it’s hardly a panacea.

Orthodox are suffering from a lack of priests as well.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I see nothing wrong with married priests, period, as long as they are married before ordination. There are already some in the Latin church.

However, it’s hardly a panacea.

Orthodox are suffering from a lack of priests as well.
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You took the words out of my mouth. It is basically the US that is suffering…that may be the Western world in fact. Africa is experiencing many vocations. Seems that a little suffering goes a long way. Personally I believe there should be a percentage of married priests to fulfill some of the clerical duties but mainly an order of priests dedicated to helping the family unit to understand what real marriage is all about. The deacons are supposed to be that but the truth is that they are not being allowed to exercise the full authority once given them in the early Church. Many of these deacons were later elevated…ordained to the priesthood it seems from my studies. We do not want to lose the dedicated men as celibate priests. That is what seems to keep the Latin Church more stable that the others. However, that is not a perfect scientific answer. The Holy Father must decide this, not the laity or the priests who can not get married anyway since they are already ordained.
 
While I rejoice at the many vocations from Africa and Asia, not all of them are motivated by spiritual concerns, which, IMHO, will prove to be disastrous in the long run. There are quite a few vocations (and I can say this from personale experience, not with Africa but India) where people do it only for societal status, financial reasons, education and the like.

There’s no problem with advocating married priests (a discipline after all) except the only people who seem to be doing that nowadays are groups who are not in accord with the teaching of the Church and not the least bit faithful to the teaching of the Magisterium. Married priests today, women priests tomorrow is the idea. And my fear-mongering side worries that among the avant-garde, we’ll have the priest’s wife in a few parishes acting like the priest himself.

And I think for most it is somethign of a knee-jerk reaction, with the mind focused more on issues of “equality” and “inclusion”. People forget that the vocation is a call, and they also forget other mundane secular issues - like suppose the priest gets divorced from his wife? Who gets the property? To what extent is the diocese then responsible? Etc., etc.
 
Of course I support the Church’s teaching on the celibacy of priests but my own personal opinion is that I wish the Church would make a special dispensation to allow married priests. Perhaps with the stipulation that only unmarried clergy may reach the higher ranks such as bishops like in the Orthodox churches.

The shortage of priests is throughout the whole Western world. The situation in Australia is just as dire as in the USA and Canada. I think one reason why it is so difficult to attract priests in the Western World is because of the great overall laxity of morals which affect every part of our lives - television, movies, music/lyrics, fashion, bill-boards… you name it. So under such bombardment of sex it is easier to get married than to remain celibate because in marriage there is an outlet. The materialism in our Western has produced laxity.

In places where the priesthood and religious vocations are high, like in Africa, the people are not bombarded with sex and the societies are less materialistic. These are places that also have a high degree of Catholic orthodoxy possibly for the same reasons.

I am fairly certain that many Catholic men would join the priesthood if marriage was permitted. Celibacy is a very difficult undertaking these days.

These are just the personal musings of my mind. I am proud of our celibate priests but we need more priests to tend to the harvest.

Rove
 
Thanks everyone for you (name removed by moderator)ut. I thought though that when a man becomes a priest he is married to the church and wears a wedding band, perhaps I am mistaken; allowing yet another marriage to takes place would complicate things even more. As far as attitude is concerned, attitude is an acquired thing. 🙂
 
Collections during Mass are decreasing, because of the economy and because Mass attendance is decreasing. Theology aside, do you realize that just on a practical basis, married priests would need a part-time job to support their families because it’s doubtful the parishioners would be able to?
 
The argument that there would be more priests if the Latin Church ordained married men to the priesthood is a shallow one. Orthodox Churches as well as Protestant ecclesial communities, who already ordains or commissions married members as clerics, are also experiencing a shortage of ministers. I think that the idea that we would solve the priest shortage situation by ordaining married men is popular because it “absolves” us laity of responsibility for the dearth of vocations.

I think there are other reasons for the low priestly vocation in some regions:
(1) loss of appreciation of the importance and dignity of the priestly vocation. Some churches have done a worse duty than others in handing on and living out the Catholic teaching that priests and laity are ontalogically different, and reduced the priestly vocation to a largely functional-supply ministry. You cannot expect young men to take up celibacy to do a functional-supply ministry.

(2) smaller families, which made parents less likely to nurture and encourage the first stirings of priestly vocation. When families do not model that generosity towards life, it would be more difficult for young men to give of themselves so generously in service of the wider faith family.

(3) dissent from Church teachings. Divisions within the Church can effectively stifle God’s call and turn away young men discerning a vocation.

(4) lack of holiness among the laity. As much as holy priests promote holiness in the laity, a holy laity also provides much vocation. If the laity do not make prayer, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, a life of faith, hope and charity central in their lives, there will be less opportunities and space for young men to discern their vocations. It isn’t easy in our busy world to create prayer spaces and time for the laity, but I guess every little bit helps.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Orthodox are suffering from a lack of priests as well.
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This is true in a sense, there are less priests than the ideal. But that is because the parishes are so small in average membership that the church requires so many.

Speaking of the USA, from my experience the typical OCA parish has about 400 to 600 members. That means that we may have something like a priest-to-parishioner ratio of 1:500, possibly even better because I know of parishes and cathedrals which each have more than one priest assigned, yet they are all typically very small compared to a Latin catholic parish.

In the United States, arguably one of the most gifted of Roman Catholic churches in terms of vocation, the priest to layperson ratio is something on the order of 1:1400 (I don’t have the figures handy at the moment, but they can be worked out from the AP).

I don’t know how much optional celibacy has to do with this difference, but the BCC has a similar difference to the Latin church in vocations to the priesthood. And, as you well know, priest’s families are a powerhouse in churning out vocations. Many of today’s priests are the children or grandchildren of priests, and many Matushkas are likewise the daughters of priestly families.

Without a detailed study on the subject available for us to peruse, the option to marry before ordination seems to help vocations exponentially.

Michael
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
There is no real shortage of priests on a global basis. It is only here in the US and another area of the world(?) It is not the issue of celibacy, but our attitude towards it that is the problem.
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Actually I disagree.

The USA is one of the most abundantly served of Catholic churches. There are a few European countries with more, like Poland and Italy, and then India is fruitful with vocations but otherwise the USA is very well set (by comparison to most countries).
 
Thanks everyone for you (name removed by moderator)ut. I thought though that when a man becomes a priest he is married to the church and wears a wedding band, perhaps I am mistaken;
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Yes, that is a mistake.
 
Don9of11 said:
This might not be the correct forum for this kind of question but I figured this is as good as any of the forums to ask. I recently received an email from my brother asking me to support or open a meaningful dialog on Optional Celibacy in the Priesthood. His email included a link to web site that would allow you to send out e-cards or the modern equivalent of a postcard to various church leaders.

futurechurch.org/fpm/optcel/postcards/

The basis for this movement as he states is the shortage of priest and closings of various parishes and various different Popes who have been married throughout history. I believe he directed the email to me because my parish St. Mary’s is being closed next June and merging with another church St. Bernard’s; anyways. I wanted to know if any real discussions or dialog has been started in the church, their official standing on this matter and where I could direct him for more information on this subject. 🙂

Don
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Don, these articles regarding “FutureChurch” should be helpful to both you and your brother:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4636&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=487061

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=24528&repos=4&subrepos=1&searchid=487061

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=69&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=487061
 
The “problems” of a married priesthood go beyond merely celibacy v. marriage. The Church would also have to overhaul the entire system for training priests. A family man can’t simply disappear from their family for 4-6 years.
Secondly, where would they live? Obviously not in a rectory.
Third, finances would have to be entirely overhauled. Right now, when a priest dies his pension stops paying out. If he leaves a widow, then the pension most likely continues. Health care costs are through the roof, more heads on a plan means more money.

Essentially, while most parishes might like to see married priests, the odds are that they can’t afford them.
 
To argue that the Protestant and other forms of Christianity are also experiencing a shortage of clergy is not convincing because those churches are also experiencing a shortage of people in their congregations.

The Catholic churches around the world are still doing better in terms of church attendance than their Protestant counterparts… but the priests just can’t keep up with the size of their congregations… hence the need for Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist (which in my youth would have been considered impossible).

Rove
 
NewEnglandPries said:
Essentially, while most parishes might like to see married priests, the odds are that they can’t afford them.
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I think they can afford married priests alright although I used to think the same way as you state here.

People have to think this through and stop making excuses.

I will tell you that when I went from the Latin church to the Byzantine Catholic church my contributions went up fourfold. This was necessary because the parish was so small. It was worth every penny and I recommend that everyone make a pilgrimage to an Eastern Catholic parish at least once.

My current parish (Orthodox) has about 600 registered members, many live so far away that we rarely get half that number on a Sunday, but we have a priest with wife and children and Father has no other job except for what extra he is assigned by the bishop, and we pay for that too indirectly. We are actually pledging tithes, parishioners are also naming the parish as a beneficiary in their wills and volunteers help with the landscaping and repairs on top of their pledges. There are a lot of ways to support a parish.

It is well attested that Roman Catholics are on average the least generous to the church compared with all major denominations. I remember hearing that fact repeated a lot from the pulpit when I attended the Latin church. That has simply got to change, these people have to learn to value what they have and give even when it hurts. At least they could start by giving as much as they claimed on their taxes last year, that should give a little boost 😃

And the attitude will change when enough parishes are closed for lack of priests, the shock has yet to set in, the tipping point has not been reached in America yet and so far the vocations problem is just an occasional inconvenience, not a severe crises such as in countries like Brazil.

I mean no offense, I really mean no offense, but I have seen enough to know that people who believe the parish cannot afford a priest or two with families are kidding themselves, just the same way I used to kid myself. 😊
 
Hesychios said:
I mean no offense, I really mean no offense, but I have seen enough to know that people who believe the parish cannot afford a priest or two with families are kidding themselves, just the same way I used to kid myself. 😊
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No offense taken, but here in New England there are parishes that can’t even afford a full time pastor and most can only afford one priest. And our pension systems are in dire straights without paying out to widows.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but in the Latin Church people have been spoiled when it comes to contributions to pay the priest.
 
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