Opus Dei- opinions

[benjohnson]

Opus Dei exists for solid formation of its members and any other Christian who wants to pursue holiness.

I’m under the impression that members of Opus Dei are Catholic - is it open to Christians in general?

 

[Edward_H]

I’m under the impression that members of Opus Dei are Catholic - is it open to Christians in general?

The formation is available for anyone. Membership is considered for only Catholics.

 

[tafan]

Edward, thanks for your comment, I was not looking to spray paint scandal. Anyone that knows Opus Dei and the Legionaries knows that they’re very similar. More, it’s widely known that after the Vatican took over the Legionaries, Opus Dei had an “internal audit” from the Vatican to review some of the same issues that the Legionaries had (mainly the conflict between Confession and Spiritual Directors). Are you an Opus Dei member? In order to say that there is more smoke than fire you need to know the inside of the organization (as we said in sports: you cannot play the game on the bleachers, you need to be on the field).

I know that for a long time the Legionaires and Opus Dei have been lumped together as similar organizations. Having been in direct contact with both (the legionaires a few years before the scandals broke), I see very few similarities between the two. As I said above, the easiest way for me to express it is that everything for the Legionaires/Regnum Christi was focused on the organization (and I found severall red flags that made me back away before ever considering being a member of Regnum Christo). Opus Dei is focused on the individual.

I do not think it fair to compare the two at all.

 

[Candescent]

I’m a cooperator with Opus Dei.

. As you know, it’s all about putting your faith into daily action.

Would you be more specific? Do you mean in praying and acting in as Christlike a way as possible in daily life? Or do you perform acts of charity etc? I am interested in finding a Catholic group where I can volunteer…

 

[Edward_H]

mikelionheart;9987907:

I’m a cooperator with Opus Dei.

. As you know, it’s all about putting your faith into daily action.

Would you be more specific? Do you mean in praying and acting in as Christlike a way as possible in daily life? Or do you perform acts of charity etc? I am interested in finding a Catholic group where I can volunteer…

I can’t speak for Mike. But Opus Dei is a way to pursue holiness in the ordinary of the day. Finding God in your work, play, rest, and all the time in between.

Red lights and dirty diapers become moments of prayer and offering. Conversations with others become moments of great generosity, done with God.

Convert one’s work into prayer. It can be done…and should be done.

 

[Mark12]

Yes. I am a supernumerary member of Opus Dei.

Observation, intelligence, and patience allow one to go beyond superficial and apparent similarities, rejecting the easy comparisons. Fr Maciel clearly modeled many aspects of LC/RC after the Work.

I wouldn’t say they are all that similar. One is a personal prelature…one is not. One has priests to serve the lay…the other has lay to serve the priesthood of the Legionaires. One is under the Congregation of Bishops. One is under the Congregation of Religious. One seems to have a long-settled spirituality; the other seems to be struggling to find or redefine its “charism(s)”.

An internal audit may reveal nothing more than a safeguard vs. a substantial or systemic problem. “Inquring minds” are apt to reflexively conclude the latter.

One has a founder who has been declared a saint. Fr Maciel won’t likely become one.

Edward, thanks for your reply. As you said, one should reject simple comparisons, but the differences that you marked, hardly show that they’re at all different. All religious organizations are ruled by their Statutes, and there is where their similarities are essential. The day-to-day of the members is not marked by depending of the Congregation of the Bishops or Religious, or if they’re a Prelature or not. The Statutes is where the day-to-day is laid out. So if you check both Statutes you’ll see that they’re more than similar.
Regarding Maciel’s canonization, I don’t think that he’ll become a saint now, but it was talked about and planned.
Legionaries and several people in the Vatican admired him, until it was found that he had some missteps, which he took good care of cover and denied for years.

 

[Edward_H]

Edward, thanks for your reply. As you said, one should reject simple comparisons, but the differences that you marked, hardly show that they’re at all different. All religious organizations are ruled by their Statutes, and there is where their similarities are essential. The day-to-day of the members is not marked by depending of the Congregation of the Bishops or Religious, or if they’re a Prelature or not. The Statutes is where the day-to-day is laid out. So if you check both Statutes you’ll see that they’re more than similar.
Regarding Maciel’s canonization, I don’t think that he’ll become a saint now, but it was talked about and planned.
Legionaries and several people in the Vatican admired him, until it was found that he had some missteps, which he took good care of cover and denied for years.

Maybe you should post some actual detail to support your point that the statutes between the two closely parallel. This is your assertion, so far unsubstantiated. And to be a fair survey, the comparisons should occur at several levels: canonical, in spirituality, individual, and corporate.

And your point that there’s no substantial difference between life as a consecrated or religious member of RC/LC and life as a lay member in Opus Dei is not supported either.

Again, I don’t doubt for a minute that there are disaffected members of Opus Dei, as there are with RC/LC, as there are with 3rd orders of various types, other religious, the Knights of Columbus, and the Rotary.

My point stands that there’s more smoke than fire.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I received my advance degree from their university in Rome. While there, I never saw or heard anything that raised red flags. The Opus Dei laity are no different from the laity anywhere. There are many very devout people and there are people who are not wrapped too tightly. You can’t blame that on an organization.

I believe that they get a bad rap because they have a lot of internal stuff, for lack of a better word. Call them privacy rules. My experience during the last 30 years is that we want to empty out our closets. Anything that is private, confidential, for members only or for a select group, we tend to come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories.

I do not deny the existence of conspiracies any more than I deny the existence of miracles. Like miracles, conspiracies don’t come by the dozen. Lately, if you don’t “out yourself” or “out your organization” then it’s assumed that you have something to hide.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

I’m an annual donor to the Foundation that supports Santa Croce in Rome. I’m also an Opus Dei cooperator. Opus Dei is a tremendous organization, at least in my own experience. The circles, evenings of recollection, workshops, catechism, spiritual direction and retreats offered by the Work are simply wonderful. I’m blessed to have found Opus Dei. At God’s Pace, I hope to become an Opus Dei supernumerary.

 

[Brother_Andre]

I have been attending Opus Dei Evenings of Recollection once a month, for a while now. I have found them to be a very welcoming and spiritual group of guys (men and women meet separately.) My two impressions would be that 1. you don’t join Opus Dei to “get Catholic” … everyone seems to completely accept the Church in all its greatness and there are no dissenters in the crowd 2. The priest serves the Opus Dei members, not the other way around. We need priests to deliver the Sacraments to us, and to help us in our recollections… The members of Opus Dei seem to view themselves as being able to live a “priestly” life as fathers, workers, managers, neighbours, regular guys.

I am not a “member” and I am not even sure how that process would happen. No one has approached me yet to become a member…in fact I am starting to wonder why! There seems to be some organic and relaxed process that happens at a later stage. The evenings are well organized and well directed. They are spiritual, uplifting, and scripture-based. There is also a certain respect for the writings of St. Josemaria, in an admiring and healthy way, not in a fawning or inappropriately devotional way.

I like how being a peripheral participant in this group has helped me to order my prayer life and find God in my day to day comings and goings.

Finally, if you have any reservations about the church’s teaching on ANYTHING, if you have any criticisms or private disagreements with this or that church doctrine or public position, you won’t be very comfortable at an OD meeting or gathering. These people love their Church.

 

[Edward_H]

I have been attending Opus Dei Evenings of Recollection once a month, for a while now. I have found them to be a very welcoming and spiritual group of guys (men and women meet separately.) My two impressions would be that 1. you don’t join Opus Dei to “get Catholic” … everyone seems to completely accept the Church in all its greatness and there are no dissenters in the crowd 2. The priest serves the Opus Dei members, not the other way around. We need priests to deliver the Sacraments to us, and to help us in our recollections… The members of Opus Dei seem to view themselves as being able to live a “priestly” life as fathers, workers, managers, neighbours, regular guys.

I am not a “member” and I am not even sure how that process would happen. No one has approached me yet to become a member…in fact I am starting to wonder why! There seems to be some organic and relaxed process that happens at a later stage. The evenings are well organized and well directed. They are spiritual, uplifting, and scripture-based. There is also a certain respect for the writings of St. Josemaria, in an admiring and healthy way, not in a fawning or inappropriately devotional way.

I like how being a peripheral participant in this group has helped me to order my prayer life and find God in my day to day comings and goings.

Finally, if you have any reservations about the church’s teaching on ANYTHING, if you have any criticisms or private disagreements with this or that church doctrine or public position, you won’t be very comfortable at an OD meeting or gathering. These people love their Church.

Brother Andre. You’re an astute person to pick up on a few aspects of Opus Dei.

True…most of the regulars that I have seen over the years at Recollections tend to be fairly serious, sincere Catholics looking to ‘struggle’ more toward holiness.

However, there are a number of Christians (some Christian pastors) and even agnostics (and I know of one Muslim) who are drawn to the recollection for a variety of reasons.

Your second point…priests serve the lay…is also true…but they serve the lay so we can serve others! If you listen closely to a meditation by an Opus Dei priest, or a talk given by a numerary or even supernumerary member…you will hear what I early on in my contact with the Work termed (to my wife, who was also attending recollections for women): the “Opus Dei punctuation mark”: “for others”

Father might say in a meditation to a group of men * “you should examine and root out your tendency toward lukewarmness and push off your laziness toward prayer and the sacrament of Confession so that you will be ready, even eager to help others…” So there is, as you say, an aspect of the priests serving the lay…but it has sort of an “Opus Dei” point…which is apostolate…to serve others…to self-donate for others…to live your marriage better for your wife…to be a better worker so you can serve your customers, co-workers, boss, the world!

Your 3rd point…the priestly life…as a lay person is exactly right. “Priestly soul, lay mentality” as it’s called.

The other thing that’s nice…is sort of the “non organizational” element…men go to get better formed…to face reality with clearer eyes…to get clear direction…to pray with God closely…examining their lives, rooting out weakness, defects, selfish preferences, etc. But then off they go back to the family, back to the workplace. There’s no real “organizational” activity in that sort of “self-serving” club sense. It’s not a club. Sure there are activities at the centers of the Work, but they all generally have a formation point to them.

And your last point is true too…membership isn’t really a big push…it’s taken quite slowly. The primary means of formation are offered freely to all.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions.*

 

[poche]

You will find scandals wherever you go. i am not a member of Opus Dei but I understand that they are orthodox. Their charism is for those who life in the world to sanctify their lives. I would recommend them. With respect to some their critics two things,

1. They might not be for everyone if you don’t feel comfortable about them, that is ok.
2. I understand that there are some who don’t like them for their orthodoxy and their success.

 

[guardai_in_alto]

@bonvivantHermit: your question is a very interesting one. Opus Dei is a somewhat puzzling phenomenon I find. I know it quite well since I have lived in one of their student halls for a year and a half. My own experience is mixed. My impression is that there are some good things, some things which are strange, but also some problematic issues.

Let’s start with the good things:

• my impression is that members sincerely strive for holiness. Sanctification of daily life and work is a very important message for our times.
• some high quality books on a wide variety of issues are by OD members.
• there is an emphasis on traditional prayers and devotions (Rosary, Eucharistic adoration…) and on a solid sacramental life.
• members generally side with the teachings of the Church in areas where society strongly discourages this, e.g. sexual ethics. I live in Europe, where there is pretty much a consensus that the Church is wrong on these matters, so all the more it is a joy to find people who agree with the Church.

Things I find strange:

• so many festive occasions are celebrated during the year which have exclusively to do with OD: birthdays, name days, death anniversaries, etc. of OD’s founder, the successor of the founder, the successor of the successor of the founder, first holy Communion of the founder… all this seems rather exaggerated. The Church has so many treasures, so it’s a shame that attention is limited to OD so much.
• very strict separation between men and women.
• many things seem very elitist, e.g. the choice of dress, food, language, etc.

Things I find problematic:

• many important contemporary issues are deliberately downplayed, e.g. our responsibility to be good stewards of creation, the need for ethical considerations in finance and economics, the plight of migrants and asylum seekers… these and others issues are all too readily brushed aside as somehow having to do with “left wing ideology”, and therefore not worthy of consideration. This is all the more bizarre as the Church’s social teaching takes these issues very seriously (one need only read the encyclical “Caritas in Veritate”). The Church’s teaching on these issues, in my experience, is often viewed with scepticism at OD, and I cannot help but notice a discrepancy between catholic social teaching and the prevalent opinions at OD. Science is also viewed with a rather exaggerated reserve.

So on the whole, I would recommend OD’s formation activities for people who want to sanctify their daily life, who want to grow in prayer, etc. But I cannot support every aspect of OD. An in my view fair and balanced impression of OD is available online at inquisition.ca/en/serm/opus_dei.htm

 

[Edward_H]

@bonvivantHermit: your question is a very interesting one. Opus Dei is a somewhat puzzling phenomenon I find. I know it quite well since I have lived in one of their student halls for a year and a half. My own experience is mixed. My impression is that there are some good things, some things which are strange, but also some problematic issues.

Let’s start with the good things:

• my impression is that members sincerely strive for holiness. Sanctification of daily life and work is a very important message for our times.
• some high quality books on a wide variety of issues are by OD members.
• there is an emphasis on traditional prayers and devotions (Rosary, Eucharistic adoration…) and on a solid sacramental life.
• members generally side with the teachings of the Church in areas where society strongly discourages this, e.g. sexual ethics. I live in Europe, where there is pretty much a consensus that the Church is wrong on these matters, so all the more it is a joy to find people who agree with the Church.

Things I find strange:

• so many festive occasions are celebrated during the year which have exclusively to do with OD: birthdays, name days, death anniversaries, etc. of OD’s founder, the successor of the founder, the successor of the successor of the founder, first holy Communion of the founder… all this seems rather exaggerated. The Church has so many treasures, so it’s a shame that attention is limited to OD so much.
• very strict separation between men and women.
• many things seem very elitist, e.g. the choice of dress, food, language, etc.

Things I find problematic:

• many important contemporary issues are deliberately downplayed, e.g. our responsibility to be good stewards of creation, the need for ethical considerations in finance and economics, the plight of migrants and asylum seekers… these and others issues are all too readily brushed aside as somehow having to do with “left wing ideology”, and therefore not worthy of consideration. This is all the more bizarre as the Church’s social teaching takes these issues very seriously (one need only read the encyclical “Caritas in Veritate”). The Church’s teaching on these issues, in my experience, is often viewed with scepticism at OD, and I cannot help but notice a discrepancy between catholic social teaching and the prevalent opinions at OD. Science is also viewed with a rather exaggerated reserve.

So on the whole, I would recommend OD’s formation activities for people who want to sanctify their daily life, who want to grow in prayer, etc. But I cannot support every aspect of OD. An in my view fair and balanced impression of OD is available online at inquisition.ca/en/serm/opus_dei.htm

There are several points I’ll comment on, but let me just deal with most of those in one group. The “number of days” point is true, but I don’t find it problematic…it is part of the customs of Opus Dei. They’re not mandatory in any sense, but they are part of the family spirit of the Work. They remind members of their history and are intended not to be constraining, but instead to encourage a ‘big family spirit’ among members.

On ‘environment’. this is a more substantial point…unlike many Catholics who seem now to worship the environment…and when they don’t find worship of it among their peers they cry foul…the Work’s approach to matters of the environment is, as is true for many matters like this, PERSONAL. Rather than get on some bandwagon about global warming, and lobby for carbon credits, etc, Opus Dei’s mission isn’t that. You’ll never find the Work getting behind a matter, almost any matter, like this.

Here’s why. The Work will leave these crusades up to their own members to pursue. The Work’s role is personal formation, not changing the world. If its members want to go out and perform science in those fields, to lobby on these topics, to pursue legislation on those topics, then that is up to the individuals to do, in their own freedom.

In an imagined session of guidance on the matter, one’s director might help such a person work through some personal question related to their professional pursuit…is the work being done well, is it ethical, is work being done for the right supernatural intentions, is it being done out of pride, is it being done out of vanity, or is it being done for the love and glory of God? Are they being generous in how they work, is their work exceptionally well done, are they working well with others, how is their work an apostolate, are they pursuing truth or an agenda?

So the Work may help a person “work well” in that person’s chosen field…the Work can help a person better sanctify this professional work done on the environment…but Opus Dei isn’t going to Davos and hold up a banner on the environment.

For others not engaging in matters of the environment as a matter of professional vocation, a spiritual director or a priest in a meditation may ask members to examine their own use of the environment.

E.g.,

Are you being lazy in how you dispose of your trash? Are you using items well, maintaining them, sharpening your tools, or are you throwing items away out of laziness, or vanity for the “new things”. Do you buy things out of pride, vanity, love of comfort?

Do you share things with your neighbor so he doesn’t have to buy one?

These are more “pastoral” points Opus Dei formation might press gently on with respect to the environment.

Opus Dei is a PERSONAL prelature…it doesn’t engage in more abstract or global or collective causes like the environment…its members, using their own freedom, might do so…and the Work is there to help them pursue and sanctify that work to the best extent of the abilities of that person.

 

[CollegeStinks]

Things I find problematic:

• many important contemporary issues are deliberately downplayed, e.g. our responsibility to be good stewards of creation, the need for ethical considerations in finance and economics, the plight of migrants and asylum seekers… these and others issues are all too readily brushed aside as somehow having to do with “left wing ideology”, and therefore not worthy of consideration. This is all the more bizarre as the Church’s social teaching takes these issues very seriously (one need only read the encyclical “Caritas in Veritate”). The Church’s teaching on these issues, in my experience, is often viewed with scepticism at OD, and I cannot help but notice a discrepancy between catholic social teaching and the prevalent opinions at OD. Science is also viewed with a rather exaggerated reserve.

Splendid! A Catholic organization that doesn’t give into some of the most prominent tenets of modernism? Where can I sign up!?

 

[Baelor]

Splendid! A Catholic organization that doesn’t give into some of the most prominent tenets of modernism? Where can I sign up!?

None of those things are modernist. They are Catholic.

That said, the previous poster was completely correct – OD is concerned with living a holy life and providing formation to do so. Political and social causes fall outside their purview beyond limited involvement in things like education (there are OD schools in many countries, for example).

That being said, I find all of the following problematic:
guardai in alto:

• so many festive occasions are celebrated during the year which have exclusively to do with OD: birthdays, name days, death anniversaries, etc. of OD’s founder, the successor of the founder, the successor of the successor of the founder, first holy Communion of the founder… all this seems rather exaggerated. The Church has so many treasures, so it’s a shame that attention is limited to OD so much.
• very strict separation between men and women.
• many things seem very elitist, e.g. the choice of dress, food, language, etc.

 

[Edward_H]

None of those things are modernist. They are Catholic.

That said, the previous poster was completely correct – OD is concerned with living a holy life and providing formation to do so. Political and social causes fall outside their purview beyond limited involvement in things like education (there are OD schools in many countries, for example).

That being said, I find all of the following problematic:

All formation activities are separate for men and wome…but most Numerary (celebate) members of the Work…have full time jobs in which they have to deal with the other gender all the time.

The elitist charge…dress and the like…is an old, somewhat tired charge. The point is we ought to put our best foot forward for Christ. Well and modest dress actually attracts others in a natural way…in a non sexual way. Being orderly and refined can put you in a position where others seek you out for friendship, advice…providing endless natural opportunities to serve them in everyday life. This is especially true for women…women tend to look up to other women who make the most of themselves…who have a modest and refined style to them. This isn’t elitist at all.

And as to the person who initially responded…they are in contact with the Work…living in a residence hall, but I suspect they aren’t a member, and so without the formation a member receives, they may have little context in which to make their observations.

 

[Baelor]

Edward, I would like to say that I have great respect for OD and its members and that I have several close friends who are numeraries.

All formation activities are separate for men and wome…but most Numerary (celebate) members of the Work…have full time jobs in which they have to deal with the other gender all the time.

The houses still involve strict separation. Also, numerary assistants may only be women.

The elitist charge…dress and the like…is an old, somewhat tired charge. The point is we ought to put our best foot forward for Christ.

The elitism stems from the second statement.

Being orderly and refined can put you in a position where others seek you out for friendship, advice…

Again, you dismiss the elitist charge by appealing to perceived elitism. The idea that one cannot be orderly or refined without wearing a particular type of clothing is elitist.

This is especially true for women…women tend to look up to other women who make the most of themselves…who have a modest and refined style to them.

I know plenty of orderly and refined women who dress ridiculously.

I have no problem with the dress code, but your justifications are a bit off to me.

 

[Edward_H]

The elitism stems from the second statement.

My second statement: The elitist charge…dress and the like…is an old, somewhat tired charge. The point is we ought to put our best foot forward for Christ.

Are we not to put our best foot forward for God in everything we do?

That justification is “off” for you?

I only know Numerary women through my wife’s involvement with the Work…Numerary men dress just like any other men, ordered, manly, nothing stands out.

The women I have met don’t wear a particular “type” of clothing. They’re dress well, business casual, nothing stands out.

 

[Baelor]

Are we not to put our best foot forward for God in everything we do?

That is not the problem. The problem is the suggestion that persons who wear particular clothing in their own homes are not “putting their best foot forward for God.”

That justification is “off” for you?

That was not what was off.

 

[Edward_H]

That is not the problem. The problem is the suggestion that persons who wear particular clothing in their own homes are not “putting their best foot forward for God.”

That was not what was off.

So you’ve now narrowed down your issue to what you think a female numerary member is or is not allowed to wear in a residence. Since I am a male supernumerary…I can’t provide much on what women TRULY are allowed to wear in a residence…and I don’t think you can do that either, at least not directly, and you’re drawing off of the basis of a small sampling.

So net…the slice of pie of Opus Dei bearing even remotely on dress is about less than 1%. So we’ve put your issue into some perspective. Actually less than this when you realize that female numeraries make up a proportionately small percentage of members. This was useful in bounding your concern.