Opus Dei Saints or Sect

[JReducation]

1.) So, if I am to understand correctly, if your superior instructs you to stop assisting at the Novus Ordo Mass and exclusively assist at the Tridentine Mass, and there is a Tridentine Sunday Mass you can make every Sunday, you are to obey?

Yes, because he is not commanding you to do something that is sinful. You may feel that you get more spiritual benefit from the OF than the EF. That’s your opinion. It carries no weight.

2.) Are lay Catholics not subject to their Pastors? Why then can they disobey orders from their Pastor.

If the pastor is exercising his legitimate authority as pastor, you cannot disobey him. To do so is a sin. If he’s going beyond his legitimate authority, you’re not disobeying if you don’t comply. There are boundaries to every leigitimate authority. You must obey civil authority, ecclesial authority and anyone who exercises legitimate authority over you. You are not disobeying if the command is illegitimate.

What makes a command illegitimate? a) It’s a sin or b) the person does not have the authority to make such a command. There is no disobedience there. Therefore, there is no sin. Obedience is due only to those who exercise legitimate authority. A child has to obey his parents and adult does not. You have no legitimate authority over your children once they are emancipated from the home. You have no legitimate authority over your children, if your command is in conflict with Church law or if you command them to sin.

3.) Am I to understand correctly that you are saying one should obey one’s bishop in contradiction to orders from the Pope?

You must understand that Church law works on principles. It deliberately avoids addressing every possible scenario, because it’s not humanly possible to do so. The rule is simple. There is a chain of command. The bishop obeys the pope and the faithful obey the bishop.

If the pope COMMANDS the bishop must obey. If the bishop does not, everyone else must obey. If the pope has a preference, the bishop does not have to comply and everyone else must comply with what the bishop commands. The pope expects you to do so. For example, in the USA the bishops have written into the GIRM that the ordinary posture to receive Holy Communion is standing and that if a person kneels, he should be given Holy Communion and privately counseled. It remains the law until the local bishop says that it is no longer the law in his diocese. The pope prefers to give communion on the tongue and kneeling. However, when asked about it, he said that this is not a law that he is imposing. It is his way of displaying the continuity of a tradition. He was very clear that he was not making this the law to be followed by every bishop.

The bishops of the USA want it standing and the pope likes to display the tradition, they’re not in conflict, because the pope never made it a law. In that case, you go with the bishop. What the Church did make a law is that you may not deny someone Holy Communion, because they kneel.

Indeed. So the Admonitions are not part of the rule itself, but serve to explain Q&A’s from it, which was my point. You stated the quoted portion came from “The Rule of St. Francis” in your previous post and that was what I was responding to.

That was my fault. When we speak of the rule, we speak about the entire body of Franciscan teaching, not just the Regula Bullata. That’s why I said, if you want, I can teach you how to read them. Their are pieces that go together.

This is also true about the Opus Dei and many other institutes. The founders wrote an initial set of norms. As the institute grew, they added either by writing in other documents or verbally and sometimes just by their examples. You could see what they wanted by what they did or did not do.

It seems you forgot to include this portion of the admonition you quoted from on obedience:

I assumed that we agree that you never obey a command to sin. That’s common sense. I don’t need to quote St. Francis on that one.

However, in the admonition there are two important sentences.

**“And if at times a subject sees things which would be better or more useful to his soul than those which the superior commands him, let him sacrifice his will to God, let him strive to fulfil the work enjoined by the superior.”

“If, however, a superior command anything to a subject that is against his soul it is permissible for him to disobey, but he must not leave him”**

Francis actually borrows this from St. Benedict. Both are very clear that there is a difference between something that does little or nothing for one’s soul and something that does harm to the soul. This is why one must know how to read these documents. To understand what Francis is saying, one must go back to Benedict who is the greatest theologian on obedience. Benedict is very clear that the only thing does harm to the soul is that which the Church has condemned as sin. Benedict then forces you to go back to the Church.

You can’t just disregard a command from any legitimate authority, because you feel that something is better. You can disregard a command because something is evil.

Serial child-molestation may not have an automatic excommunication in Canon Law tied to it. However, Church authority can always utilize a ferendae sententiae excommunication wherever they think it is prudent. The Church could certainly excommunicate a serial child-molesting priest if they think the situation warrants it.

Excommunication is a penalty whose purpose is to heal. It can be applied by the Church to anyone. The point is that the Church does not say that a child predator is automatically excommunicated.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Well, as someone who was formerly spiritually lazy, I would like to say that there is nothing wrong with forcing members of an association to practice what they have voluntarily committed to practice .

Spirituality can be all about self-actualizing this or that, pondering the life-transforming experiences of all sorts of ethereal, abstract things that make not a wit of difference in our spiritual lives.

What struck me most about St Benedict’s Rule is its simplicity and practicality. I wanted to know what Benedict had to say about prayer and what experiences he had to share. But he basically indicated a plan to pray the Psalms over a one-week period, seven times a day etc.

As for the Opus Dei founder, I find his writings to be very practical as well. I was “gob-smacked” when I read his statement to students that “an hour of study is an hour of prayer.”

No division between religion and daily life for that man of God!

Undertaking a Rule of life, Benedictine, Opus Dei or what have you, is a commitment that should be undertaken seriously.

Several months ago at work, I was about to have a meeting with some people promoting organ donation.

Before the meeting, I prayed one of the Hours of the Liturgy of the Hours, and read and pondered a portion of the Gospel.

After the meeting, one of the participants spoke out loud to say, “You really do reflect the grace of the Gospel, you know? I really feel the Gospel coming out of you . . .”

And I just sat there listening to them . . .

We are meant to reflect the Light of Christ and such religious rules of devotion are intended to “flick on” our spiritual switches.

There is a great Anglican book on praying the Daily Hours by one William Law “A serious call to a devout and holy life” published by Paulist Press.

William Law knew what Christianity and Christian devotion are all about.

Alex

St. José María Escrivá, like Benedict, was a very practical man. He was not going for the complicated. He was going for the common. Sometimes the common is complicated, but that’s not his fault.

Like every other institute, there are going to be people who deviate from the vision and mission of the founder. It happens. This does not annul what the founder started. Even when the founder himself deviates, it does not annul the good. Look at the Legionaires of Christ. They’re an awesome congregation. Father Marciel was a lose canon. However, the vision that he gave them and the mission that he created for them is very good. We set aside Father Marciel’s personal life and those who cooperated with him in doing bad things. However, we do not throw out the good. That part we keep.

There is the old saying about throwing out the baby with the bath water. However, I have run into people who want to throw out the bloody tub too. That’s not always necessary.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Becicat]

From IN GOD’s NAME:

With the election of Karol Wojtyla, quiet discretion has become a rare commodity. His espousal of Opus Dei is well documented. In view of the fact that this Catholic sect shares many views and values with the corrupt P2 and threat Opus Dei is now a force to be reckoned with inside Vatican City, a few basic details are in order.
Opus Dei is a Roman Catholic organization of international scope. Though its actual membership is relatively small (estimates vary between sixty-thousand and eighty-thousand), its influence is vast. It is a secret society, something that is strictly forbidden by the Church. Opus Dei denies that it is a secret organization, but refuses to make its membership list available. It was founded by a Spanish priest, Monsignor Josemaría Escrivá de Balagner, in 1928. It is part of the extreme right-wing of the Catholic Church, a political fact that has ensured that the organization has attracted enemies as well as members. About five percent of its members are priests; the remainder are laypersons of both sexes. Although Opus Dei has members from many walks of life, it seeks especially to attract those from the upper classes, including young professionals with potential to rise to positions of power. Dr. John Roche, an Oxford University lecturer and former member of Opus Dei, describes it as ‘sinister, secretive, and Orwellian.’ It may be that its members’ preoccupation with self-mortification is the cause for much of the news hostility that has been directed toward the sect. Certainly, the idea of flogging yourself on your bare back and wearing strips of metal with inward-pointing prongs around the thigh for the greater glory of God might prove difficult for the majority of people in the latter part of the Twentieth Century to accept. No one, however, should doubt the total sincerity of the Opus Dei membership. They are equally devoted to a task of wider significance: the take-over of the Roman Catholic Church…One of his first acts after his election [Pope John Paul II] was to go the tomb of the founder of Opus Dei and pray. Subsequently, he has granted the sect the status of a personal prelature, a significant step on the journey to Cardinal Cody land, where one becomes answerable only to Rome and God.”

 

[laszlo]

It is a secret society, something that is strictly forbidden by the Church. ”

The Opus Dei has the Personal Prelature status.

 

[jwinch2]

from in god’s name:

With the election of karol wojtyla, quiet discretion has become a rare commodity. His espousal of opus dei is well documented. In view of the fact that this catholic sect shares many views and values with the corrupt p2 and threat opus dei is now a force to be reckoned with inside vatican city, a few basic details are in order.

Opus dei is a roman catholic organization of international scope.  Though its actual membership is relatively small (estimates vary between sixty-thousand and eighty-thousand), its influence is vast.  It is a secret society, something that is strictly forbidden by the church.  Opus dei denies that it is a secret organization, but refuses to make its membership list available.  It was founded by a spanish priest, monsignor josemaría escrivá de balagner, in 1928.  It is part of the extreme right-wing of the catholic church, a political fact that has ensured that the organization has attracted enemies as well as members.  About five percent of its members are priests; the remainder are laypersons of both sexes.  Although opus dei has members from many walks of life, it seeks especially to attract those from the upper classes, including young professionals with potential to rise to positions of power.  Dr. John roche, an oxford university lecturer and former member of opus dei, describes it as ‘sinister, secretive, and orwellian.’  it may be that its members’ preoccupation with self-mortification is the cause for much of the news hostility that has been directed toward the sect.  Certainly, the idea of flogging yourself on your bare back and wearing strips of metal with inward-pointing prongs around the thigh for the greater glory of god might prove difficult for the majority of people in the latter part of the twentieth century to accept.  No one, however, should doubt the total sincerity of the opus dei membership.  They are equally devoted to a task of wider significance: The take-over of the roman catholic church…one of his first acts after his election [pope john paul ii] was to go the tomb of the founder of opus dei and pray.  Subsequently, he has granted the sect the status of a personal prelature, a significant step on the journey to cardinal cody land, where one becomes answerable only to rome and god.”

BWAHAHAHA… People will believe pretty much anything, especially when they are on a witch hunt and have already made up their minds…

 

[JReducation]

From IN GOD’s NAME:

With the election of Karol Wojtyla, quiet discretion has become a rare commodity. His espousal of Opus Dei is well documented. In view of the fact that this Catholic sect shares many views and values with the corrupt P2 and threat Opus Dei is now a force to be reckoned with inside Vatican City, a few basic details are in order.

Opus Dei is a Roman Catholic organization of international scope.  Though its actual membership is relatively small (estimates vary between sixty-thousand and eighty-thousand), its influence is vast.  It is a secret society, something that is strictly forbidden by the Church.  Opus Dei denies that it is a secret organization, but refuses to make its membership list available.  It was founded by a Spanish priest, Monsignor Josemaría Escrivá de Balagner, in 1928.  It is part of the extreme right-wing of the Catholic Church, a political fact that has ensured that the organization has attracted enemies as well as members.  About five percent of its members are priests; the remainder are laypersons of both sexes.  Although Opus Dei has members from many walks of life, it seeks especially to attract those from the upper classes, including young professionals with potential to rise to positions of power.  Dr. John Roche, an Oxford University lecturer and former member of Opus Dei, describes it as ‘sinister, secretive, and Orwellian.’  It may be that its members’ preoccupation with self-mortification is the cause for much of the news hostility that has been directed toward the sect.  Certainly, the idea of flogging yourself on your bare back and wearing strips of metal with inward-pointing prongs around the thigh for the greater glory of God might prove difficult for the majority of people in the latter part of the Twentieth Century to accept.  No one, however, should doubt the total sincerity of the Opus Dei membership.  They are equally devoted to a task of wider significance: the take-over of the Roman Catholic Church…One of his first acts after his election [Pope John Paul II] was to go the tomb of the founder of Opus Dei and pray.  Subsequently, he has granted the sect the status of a personal prelature, a significant step on the journey to Cardinal Cody land, where one becomes answerable only to Rome and God.”

First of all, Opus Dei is not a sect. I fail to see why a Catholic would refer to them as such.

Second, they are a Personal Prelature of the Holy Father. They do not even meet the definition of a sect, since they are directly unter the jurisdiction of the Apostolic See and are governed by a Prelate in the name of the Apostolic See. They also function as a diocese without boundaries, but in cooperation with the local Ordinaries. The laity are not part of the Prelature, only thye clergy are part of it. The laity participate in the life and work of the Prelature.

Observe the canons regarding prelatures.

**Can. 294 After the conferences of bishops involved have been heard, the Apostolic See can erect personal prelatures, which consist of presbyters and deacons of the secular clergy, to promote a suitable distribution of presbyters or to accomplish particular pastoral or missionary works for various regions or for different social groups.

Can. 295 §1. The statutes established by the Apostolic See govern a personal prelature, and a prelate presides offer it as the proper ordinary; he has the right to erect a national or international seminary and even to incardinate students and promote them to orders under title of service to the prelature.

§2. The prelate must see to both the spiritual formation and decent support of those whom he has promoted under the above-mentioned title.

Can. 296 Lay persons can dedicate themselves to the apostolic works of a personal prelature by agreements entered into with the prelature. The statutes, however, are to determine suitably the manner of this organic cooperation and the principal duties and rights connected to it.

Can. 297 The statutes likewise are to define the relations of the personal prelature with the local ordinaries in whose particular churches the prelature itself exercises or desires to exercise its pastoral or missionary works, with the previous consent of the diocesan bishop.**

You do a great disservice to the Prelature and to the Apostolic See with such a post. Also, the claim of courruption is unsubstantiated. There is no canon that prohibits secrecy inside the Catholic Church. On the contrary, there are many events and activities in the Catholic Church that may never be disclosed, these include but are not limited to the conclave that elects a pope, the general chapter of a religious order, the election of a major superior of religious and the constitutions of religious institutes, if they choose not to share them with the outside world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF