Opus Dei--why don't all traditional-type Catholics get involved with it?

[Melchior_1]

From the US Opus Dei Site:

So I’m not surprised some trads are not gung-ho about Opus Dei.

I can see why that quote would be a turn-off.

They’re not the only ones with less than reputable items on their website that causes people to think twice and have negative impressions of the organization though

(ahem, SSPX)

 

[ProVobis]

Also, I’ve noticed that they celebrate mass according to the OF, profoundly reverent though it is. Perhaps this is not a draw for those who prefer attending the EF.

Okay, but what’s the point of being set up as a personal prelature?

 

[Cat]

I’m not a “traditional Catholic” but I did hang out with Opus Dei as a kid, and lived in one of their University residences for a year.

I always felt like I was getting the air sucked out of me when I was around them.

Why did you feel this way?

 

[Pug]

Okay, but what’s the point of being set up as a personal prelature?

I’d guess it allows a hierarchical structure to have more flexibility, say, than a geographical diocese, so that it can permeate all over the place. The prelate (of the personal prelature) is appointed by the pope and the laity of Opus Dei remain in their particular geographical diocese, but they are also in Opus Dei. The goal is I assume to facilitate Opus Dei to carry out its particular mission of encouraging holiness in everyday life, etc., a worldwide sort of mission.

 

[triumphguy]

I always felt there was an agenda with every activity, or hike, or mass or event that I attended.

And they were all so quiet and introverted. I’m loud and extroverted - less so now than then of course.

There were lots of tut-tuts when I was around.

I’m more of a Franciscan! Like Fr. Z says: you know you’re lucky when you go to a liturgy with the Franciscans and come away injury free!

 

[Moore11]

Opus Dei seems to offer everything that traditional-type Catholics are longing for but can’t find in their parish.

For the few that perhaps have never heard about Opus Dei, here is their U.S. web site:

opusdei.us/

The last two popes have been huge supporters of Opus Dei.

The famous Catholic convert, apologist and professor Scott Hahn wrote in his book Rome Sweet Home that he could not find a priest to help him convert to the Catholic Faith until he contacted an Opus Dei priest.

The fact that liberal Catholics and liberals in general hate and demonize Opus Dei should be a major selling point to traditional-type Catholics. There are even web sites dedicated to watching, investigating, and criticizing Opus Dei. Even so, I don’t think they’ve ever found anything really bad about Opus Dei. Dan Brown even demonized and grossly misrepresented Opus Dei in his infamous novel and movie “The Da Vinci Code.”

To me, it seems like many Catholics would be a lot happier if they and their children attended Opus Dei activities (assuming they live near an Opus Dei study center or Opus Dei run school).

Yes, places where the Traditional Latin Mass (now officially known as the Extraordinary Form of the Mass) is offered with the approval of the pope and bishops also provides a place that many traditional-type Catholics like. But, in my experience, some of these places have lots of people who fiercely and angrily obsessed with fighting and denouncing liberals in the Church and in society and government. To me, all that negativity is a real bummer, and upsetting.

But contrast, in my experience, the Opus Dei centers have none of this “anti-” orientation. As far as I can see, they are entirely “pro-” in their orientation: Pro-Catholic, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Pro-Pope, Pro-Blessed Virgin Mary, Pro-Holiness in Everyday Life (their slogan).

So, why aren’t YOU involved with Opus Dei?

1 Because Opus Die doesnt speak to me and some of the practices are not my cup of tea.
2 Because there is not an Opus Die chapter within 400 miles of me.
3 Beacause if traditionalists just go to thier own corner and get out of the way of the rest of the people who seem to be intimidated by them then the Church will fall deeper and deeper into progressivism. What the Church needs right now is vocal, practicing traditionalists in liberal progressive parishes.
4 Because SSPX unification is right around the corner.

If you think the goal of traditionalists is just to annoy liberals and so since liberals hate opus die, traditionalists should be on board then you have a skewed version of tradionalists and the Church in general. I think the way this was presented was very biased.
Perhaps you missed your calling as a member of the mainstream media?
All that being said. Opus Die is a great organization that does many wonderful things for the Church including safeguarding tradition. They are a Holy group who should be looked into by anyone who has a love for God. However, they may not be for everyone.

 

[Moore11]

I always felt there was an agenda with every activity, or hike, or mass or event that I attended.

And they were all so quiet and introverted. I’m loud and extroverted - less so now than then of course.

There were lots of tut-tuts when I was around.

I’m more of a Franciscan! Like Fr. Z says: you know you’re lucky when you go to a liturgy with the Franciscans and come away injury free!

I agree, in my experience especially at the silent retreats there was kind of a introverted, quiet, tut tut atmosphere. But that may not be a bad thing, it just isn’t my thing.
I don’t mind if there is an obvious agenda being pushed however. Sometimes the agenda being pushed could be a good thing.
Love the message, just not the delivery system.

 

[Moore11]

"]fiercely and angrily obsessed with fighting and denouncing liberals in the Church and in society and government

. To me, all that negativity is a real bummer, and upsetting.

I have never in my life met or heard of a “liberal” Catholic that did not need a good denouncing. Especially in politics.
I’m sorry that it is a “bummer” to you but sometimes fighting a battle is not always fun. Sometimes standing up for the unborn and losing, or wanting healthcare for all and then getting stabbed in the back, or watching prominent Catholic politicians or Nuns blatantly align themselves with evil for the sake of power just is kind of a bummer, and instead of hiding in some smokey room with Opus die members with low lights and dark wooden furniture we need to be visible, and active in our own parishes. This is what God is calling some of us to do.
I think sometimes that the attitude of people who are bummed out by the negativity from traditionalists is a stick your head in the sand type of view. Some people do not want to hear the bad news and would prefer that those who are telling them the bad news could just be relegated to an island somewhere. Away from the world that tells us everything is fine.

 

[thewanderer]

I have never in my life met or heard of a “liberal” Catholic that did not need a good denouncing. Especially in politics.
I’m sorry that it is a “bummer” to you but sometimes fighting a battle is not always fun. Sometimes standing up for the unborn and losing, or wanting healthcare for all and then getting stabbed in the back, or watching prominent Catholic politicians or Nuns blatantly align themselves with evil for the sake of power just is kind of a bummer, and instead of hiding in some smokey room with Opus die members with low lights and dark wooden furniture we need to be visible, and active in our own parishes. This is what God is calling some of us to do.
I think sometimes that the attitude of people who are bummed out by the negativity from traditionalists is a stick your head in the sand type of view. Some people do not want to hear the bad news and would prefer that those who are telling them the bad news could just be relegated to an island somewhere. Away from the world that tells us everything is fine.

Somehow I doubt that the OP is promoting a stick your head in the sand kind of attitude. There is a huge difference between focusing on the postives, such as the positive things one can do to help end problems, and pretending that such problems dont exist. Beng positive doesn’t mean pretending that nothing is wrong, but instead of focusing on how wrong it all is, you live and work to make the world a better place in whatever way God is calling you personally to. You focus on the Love of God and the ability this Love has to change the world. You focus on what God is calling you to do. How you can be a better Catholic, more loving and charitable to others, etc rather than focusing on all the evils that exist and simply complaining about them and blaming anything you don’t like on them. Just to be clear, I am not claiming that this is what all traditionalists are like. Two of my closest friends attend the EF almost exclusively and I would nevver say this of them. But I must also say that I have met such people in EF only communities, and plenty of the things I have read online by traditionalists also give off this kind of attitude. So just to be clear, I do not in any way shape or form mean this to be an insult to traditionalists. It is not something that is necessarily entailed in being a traditionalist, it is just something that the OP, I, and other non-traditionalists I know have experienced within the traditionalist movement. So it is something that exists, even though it is not at all a defining aspect of the movement and is a failing in those that participate in it, not a failing of the movement itself. I hope this makes clear both to you and to TrueLight, and anyone else reading this thread for that matter, that when I say this it is not meant as an insult, and I woud appreciate it if you could please recognize that and give me the benefit of the doubt when I speak in a way that could be taken as an insult against traditionalists in general, I assure you, I have great respect for the traditionalist movement and I do not mean it as an insult against the movement.

 

[TrueLight]

Somehow I doubt that the OP is promoting a stick your head in the sand kind of attitude. There is a huge difference between focusing on the postives, such as the positive things one can do to help end problems, and pretending that such problems dont exist. Beng positive doesn’t mean pretending that nothing is wrong, but instead of focusing on how wrong it all is, you live and work to make the world a better place in whatever way God is calling you personally to. You focus on the Love of God and the ability this Love has to change the world. You focus on what God is calling you to do. How you can be a better Catholic, more loving and charitable to others, etc rather than focusing on all the evils that exist and simply complaining about them and blaming anything you don’t like on them. Just to be clear, I am not claiming that this is what all traditionalists are like. Two of my closest friends attend the EF almost exclusively and I would nevver say this of them. But I must also say that I have met such people in EF only communities, and plenty of the things I have read online by traditionalists also give off this kind of attitude. So just to be clear, I do not in any way shape or form mean this to be an insult to traditionalists. It is not something that is necessarily entailed in being a traditionalist, it is just something that the OP, I, and other non-traditionalists I know have experienced within the traditionalist movement. So it is something that exists, even though it is not at all a defining aspect of the movement and is a failing in those that participate in it, not a failing of the movement itself. I hope this makes clear both to you and to TrueLight, and anyone else reading this thread for that matter, that when I say this it is not meant as an insult, and I woud appreciate it if you could please recognize that and give me the benefit of the doubt when I speak in a way that could be taken as an insult against traditionalists in general, I assure you, I have great respect for the traditionalist movement and I do not mean it as an insult against the movement.

The OP has already apologized so I don’t want to address him. If your goal is to list what is wrong with traditionalists, then you might want to start another thread.

It would have been perfectly possible and charitable to state something like, "I know that traditionalists are very vocal when it comes to modernism and liberals. Since the liberals are against Opus Dei, then why don’t the trads go the opposite way?

That way you state what you believe are trad beliefs without using it as a platform to bash traditionalists. You then avoid automatically putting some people on the defensive.

So what would you like the purpose of this thread to be: to understand why trads are not crazy about Opus Dei, or is it to talk about how some traditionalists are negative (not including the couple you know)?

 

[Moore11]

Somehow I doubt that the OP is promoting a stick your head in the sand kind of attitude. There is a huge difference between focusing on the postives, such as the positive things one can do to help end problems, and pretending that such problems dont exist. Beng positive doesn’t mean pretending that nothing is wrong, but instead of focusing on how wrong it all is, you live and work to make the world a better place in whatever way God is calling you personally to. You focus on the Love of God and the ability this Love has to change the world. You focus on what God is calling you to do. How you can be a better Catholic, more loving and charitable to others, etc rather than focusing on all the evils that exist and simply complaining about them and blaming anything you don’t like on them. Just to be clear, I am not claiming that this is what all traditionalists are like. Two of my closest friends attend the EF almost exclusively and I would nevver say this of them. But I must also say that I have met such people in EF only communities, and plenty of the things I have read online by traditionalists also give off this kind of attitude. So just to be clear, I do not in any way shape or form mean this to be an insult to traditionalists. It is not something that is necessarily entailed in being a traditionalist, it is just something that the OP, I, and other non-traditionalists I know have experienced within the traditionalist movement. So it is something that exists, even though it is not at all a defining aspect of the movement and is a failing in those that participate in it, not a failing of the movement itself. I hope this makes clear both to you and to TrueLight, and anyone else reading this thread for that matter, that when I say this it is not meant as an insult, and I woud appreciate it if you could please recognize that and give me the benefit of the doubt when I speak in a way that could be taken as an insult against traditionalists in general, I assure you, I have great respect for the traditionalist movement and I do not mean it as an insult against the movement.

Hey, I agree with that is how things should be done and I agree that there are some trads that are “angry” BUT I have noticed on this forum that it is common to really harp on this. And I might add there are a ton of angry leftists as well. Heck, just go to a occupy rally!
It just seems like on the traditional forum there are a few people who post just to rile people up and for some reason, this seemed like that to me. hopefully I was wrong.
It would be interesting to know if the OP would classify himself as a traditionalist.
OP? HOw bout it?

 

[Baelor]

The fact that liberal Catholics and liberals in general hate and demonize Opus Dei should be a major selling point to traditional-type Catholics.

I do not understand this at all. Why would I not want to embrace something on its own merits versus the fact that people I dislike also dislike it?

To me, it seems like many Catholics would be a lot happier if they and their children attended Opus Dei activities (assuming they live near an Opus Dei study center or Opus Dei run school).

Not true. My family’s personality is totally antithetical to the typical personalities of OD members. And yes, having lived at a center for some time and having met the members, certain traits are generalizable.

OD is not for everyone. It requires specific types of people willing to live a particular way and focus on a particular aspect of spirituality.

 

[thewanderer]

The OP has already apologized so I don’t want to address him. If your goal is to list what is wrong with traditionalists, then you might want to start another thread.

It would have been perfectly possible and charitable to state something like, "I know that traditionalists are very vocal when it comes to modernism and liberals. Since the liberals are against Opus Dei, then why don’t the trads go the opposite way?

That way you state what you believe are trad beliefs without using it as a platform to bash traditionalists. You then avoid automatically putting some people on the defensive.

So what would you like the purpose of this thread to be: to understand why trads are not crazy about Opus Dei, or is it to talk about how some traditionalists are negative (not including the couple you know)?

Why do you insist on taking what I am saying the wrong way? What is wrong with saying that I have run into traditionalists with this attitude more than other Catholics when I specifically qualify what I say to point out that I am not trying offend traditionalists or make a claim about traditionalists in general? No, I am not trying to turn this thread into a debate about what is wrong with traditionalists. I brought it up in the context of an attempt to clarify what I believe the OP’s distinction was which is the frame for his question. If you still think I am being offensive please feel free to pm me and I will try to find a better way to explain that I really do not mean any offense against traditionalists as I don’t want to derail this thread.

 

[TrueLight]

Why do you insist on taking what I am saying the wrong way? What is wrong with saying that I have run into traditionalists with this attitude more than other Catholics when I specifically qualify what I say to point out that I am not trying offend traditionalists or make a claim about traditionalists in general? No, I am not trying to turn this thread into a debate about what is wrong with traditionalists. I brought it up in the context of an attempt to clarify what I believe the OP’s distinction was which is the frame for his question. If you still think I am being offensive please feel free to pm me and I will try to find a better way to explain that I really do not mean any offense against traditionalists as I don’t want to derail this thread.

Okay “thewanderer”, I’m going to drop this. It’s not good for my spiritual life.

 

[ProVobis]

I’d guess it allows a hierarchical structure to have more flexibility, say, than a geographical diocese, so that it can permeate all over the place. The prelate (of the personal prelature) is appointed by the pope and the laity of Opus Dei remain in their particular geographical diocese, but they are also in Opus Dei. The goal is I assume to facilitate Opus Dei to carry out its particular mission of encouraging holiness in everyday life, etc., a worldwide sort of mission.

Okay, but that should be a goal for all Catholic orders and fraternities, I would think.

 

[LoyalViews]

You know, I always thought that to join Opus Dei you need to have a vocation to the prelature, not like a Priestly vocation, but rather a lay vocation. A calling, in other words, to the lifestyle the Opus Dei lives.

So that’s why not all traditional Catholics get involved. There are many organisations in the Church, many orders, many societies.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

I have realized that different people use the phrase “traditional Catholic” in different ways.

For many years, say from about 1970 to about 2005 (just guessing here), speaking of a “Traditional Catholic” always seemed to mean someone who attended only the “old Mass,” i.e., the Traditional Latin Mass.

On the other hand, Catholics who were loyal to Pope John Paul II and who attended the New Mass (Novus Ordo Mass) generally called themselves “conservative Catholics.”

But with the Papacy of Benedict XVI, I more and more hear people using the phrase “traditional Catholic” to refer to any Catholic who is not a liberal Catholic, not a lax Catholic, or not a moderate Catholic.

So, I think this shift in usage is causing some confusion.

I think it is widely recognized that the Traditional Latin Mass was intentionally renamed the “Extraordinary Form,” in part, to remove from the New Mass (Novus Ordo) the stigma or insinuation that it represents a rupture with Catholic tradition. I think Pope Benedict wants us to think of both the OF Mass and the EF Mass as traditional, even if one only dates back to about 1970.

I see lots of people in this Forum who know nothing about the Traditional Latin Mass (EF) calling themselves “traditional Catholics.”

Personally, I like the OF and EF equally well, as long as their is reverence and homily that gets to the heart of things.

The 12 apostles and the pre-Nicea Council Catholic Church Father had neither the EF Mass nor the OF Mass. I believe their Mass was in generally in Greek, and much simpler. But, in the Latin Rite, the EF and the OF are the two main options. I like them both. But that’s just me.

 

[ProVobis]

The 12 apostles and the pre-Nicea Council Catholic Church Father had neither the EF Mass nor the OF Mass. I believe their Mass was in generally in Greek, and much simpler.

And the EF and the Latin OF still have some Greek (Kyrie Eleison, Sabaoth) in the text.

 

[Pug]

Okay, but that should be a goal for all Catholic orders and fraternities, I would think.

Maybe it would make more sense if I mentioned that part of their focus is on apostolate in one’s professional work, like as a policeman or a hairdresser or whatnot. I wouldn’t immediately say that this is a special focus or charism of all Catholic orders. Each seems to have their own special focus, spirituality, etc. Of course they all promote holiness, as does the entire Church.

 

[loko]

Opus Dei is not for everyone. I am involved with Legion of Mary. My Spanish friend is heavily involved with Opus Dei. Below is what is required of it’s members.

All members – whether married or unmarried, priests or laypeople – are trained to follow a ‘plan of life’, or ‘the norms of piety’, which are some traditional Catholic devotions. This is meant to follow the teaching mentioned in the Catholic Catechism to “pray at specific times…to nourish continual prayer,” which in turn is based on Jesus’ “pray at all times” (Luke 18:1), echoed by St. Paul’s “pray without ceasing” (1 Thessalonians 5:17). According to Escriva, the vocation to Opus Dei is a calling to be a “contemplative in the middle of the world,” who converts work and daily life into prayer.

**Daily norms for Opus Dei members:
**
Heroic minute, waking up punctually and saying “Serviam!” (Latin: I will serve)
Morning offering, fixing one’s intentions to do everything for the glory of God
Spiritual reading and reading the New Testament, a practice recommended by St. Paul and other saints
Mental prayer, conversation with God
Mass, Communion and Thanksgiving after Communion
Rosary, a traditional Catholic devotion to Christ and to Mary
The Preces (the common prayer of Opus Dei)
Angelus prayer, which recalls Christian belief in God’s becoming man
Memorare prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary offered for the Opus Dei member in most need at that exact moment
Visit to the Blessed Sacrament, a Catholic practice of greeting Jesus in the Eucharist
Examination of conscience at the end of the day
Three Hail Marys before bed to pray for the virtue of purity
Short, spontaneous prayers throughout the day, offering up to God one’s work, sufferings etc.
Weekly norms:
Confession, in pursuit of the Catholic recommendation on frequent confession
a group meeting of spiritual formation (“the Circle”)
the praying of a Marian antiphon on Saturdays
taking Psalm 2 as the basis of mental prayer on Tuesdays

Additionally, members should participate yearly in a spiritual retreat; a three-week seminar every year is obligatory for numeraries, and a one-week seminar for supernumeraries. Also members are expected to make a day-trip pilgrimage where they recite 3 5-decade rosaries on the month of May in honour of Mary.

Mortification for those who are not familiar is the voluntary offering up of discomfort or pain to God, this includes fasting, or in some circumstances self inflicted pain such as self flagellation. This is also required of Opus Dei members.

Opus Dei focuses on performing sacrifices pertaining to normal duties and to its emphasis on charity and cheerfulness. Additionally, Opus Dei celibate members practise “corporal mortifications” such as sleeping without a pillow or sleeping on the floor, fasting or remaining silent for certain hours during the day.

Critics accuse them of masochism however the Church endorses them as they are participating in Christs suffering.