Opus Dei

[AveSantaMaria]

How does one go about contacting Opus Dei?

 

[Paenitens]

How does one go about contacting Opus Dei?

Go to opusdei.org/ then to “Contact Us”. Assuming you are in the U.S. nothing else to do…if you are not in the U.S. make sure and select your country on the right (I don’t have your post in front of me which probably has your location…)

 

[Paenitens]

Go to opusdei.org/ then to “Contact Us”. Assuming you are in the U.S. nothing else to do…if you are not in the U.S. make sure and select your country on the right (I don’t have your post in front of me which probably has your location…)

OK…now I see you are indeed in a different country…see if they have “California” on the list…

And yes, I’m originally from SoCal…

 

[AveSantaMaria]

OK…now I see you are indeed in a different country…see if they have “California” on the list…

And yes, I’m originally from SoCal…

 

[Dempsey1919]

Why would a person choose to be a Numerary when they could become a priest or a nun? The life of a Numerary is similar to the life of a priest; they are typically celibate, they have spiritual practices, and they live in near poverty. The life of a Numerary is totally focused on Christ.

There is a shortage of vocations throughout the world. The Church desperately needs more priests, monks, nuns, and brothers. It seems to me that Numeraries could better serve the Church by receiving the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Afterall, they live like priests and are deeply spiritual. Why don’t they become priests?

 

[Paenitens]

Why would a person choose to be a Numerary when they could become a priest or a nun? The life of a Numerary is similar to the life of a priest; they are typically celibate, they have spiritual practices, and they live in near poverty. The life of a Numerary is totally focused on Christ.

There is a shortage of vocations throughout the world. The Church desperately needs more priests, monks, nuns, and brothers. It seems to me that Numeraries could better serve the Church by receiving the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Afterall, they live like priests and are deeply spiritual. Why don’t they become priests?

As usual, someone who’s actually involved will probably answer this much better than I, but for what it’s worth: they are different jobs. I definitely agree that there is a dearth of priests. Still, a Numerary is much more directly involved in lay issues than priests - in fact, I believe that is the whole point. A numerary has a job in society (Burger King, Banks, Bakeries…) and can live out his/her vocation directly in that realm as well as during off hours for The Work itself. This is something a priest simply could not do. I received such a quick reply (from a Numerary, by the way) because that’s what he does in his off hours away from work. If OD were run exclusively by Priests I’d be complaining (like in my earlier post) about how difficult it is to reach them…

 

[Dempsey1919]

Still, a Numerary is much more directly involved in lay issues than priests - in fact, I believe that is the whole point. A numerary has a job in society (Burger King, Banks, Bakeries…) and can live out his/her vocation directly in that realm as well as during off hours for The Work itself. This is something a priest simply could not do.

The benefits of becoming a Numerary are that you can also have a secular lifestyle? If this is the case, Opus Dei enables people to have a religious-secular lifestyle; a mixture of both, instead of one or the other.

 

[Red_Meg]

The benefits of becoming a Numerary are that you can also have a secular lifestyle? If this is the case, Opus Dei enables people to have a religious-secular lifestyle; a mixture of both, instead of one or the other.

No!

A vocation to Opus Dei is nothing but a secular vocation-- for numeraries and supernumeraries. It is not quasi-religious or semi-consecrated or anything else like that.

I’m sorry to be so strong on this point, but it’s essential. Opus Dei struggled for many years to find its “home” in the Church because so many churchmen could not comprehend organization that placed such an emphasis on holiness and virtue and prayer without trying to fit it into the model of the religious life. Square peg, round hole.

Why would a person choose to be a Numerary when they could become a priest or a nun? The life of a Numerary is similar to the life of a priest; they are typically celibate, they have spiritual practices, and they live in near poverty. The life of a Numerary is totally focused on Christ.

There is a shortage of vocations throughout the world. The Church desperately needs more priests, monks, nuns, and brothers. It seems to me that Numeraries could better serve the Church by receiving the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Afterall, they live like priests and are deeply spiritual. Why don’t they become priests?

Because God isn’t calling them to be priests or nuns. He’s calling them to be saints in the middle of the world.
St. Josemaria:

           A secret, an open secret: these world crises are crises of saints.

God wants a handful of men ‘of his own’ ***in every human activity. ***And then… ‘pax Christi in regno Christi — the peace of Christ in the kingdom of Christ’. The Way, 301

We don’t just need holy, dedicated priests. We also desperately need physicists and housewives and bus drivers and investment bankers and kindergarten teachers who are totally committed to Jesus Christ. Trust me-- there are plenty of people who spend some time in contact with Opus Dei, derive benefit from the spiritual direction and retreats and such, and from that, realize they do have a religious or priestly vocation. That is absolutely wonderful and makes us all very, very happy. But trying to fit everyone who actually has a vocation to Opus Dei into a religious model is not a good idea…

Margaret

 

[Red_Meg]

Anyway I am just starting my MA studies, got married (9th Jan.), and it looks like our family is about to start too :heaven:, so I have many things to keep me busy these couple of years in here, and I hope the place where we next move into has center nearby . I just try to think that God must have some reason to send me here, so far from the center, but sometimes it is hard.

Rafaela,

Sorry, didn’t mean to ignore your earlier post. What an exciting time of life for you-- so much happening all at once! Isn’t it terrific to be married? Be sure and get yourself over to the Pregnant Mommies board if you have any good news to share.

I am itching for another baby myself. I lost one last fall :crying: and have now had to put baby plans on hold until I get a grip on a potential health issue. But I hope I can get that all resolved quickly and get back on the baby bandwagon. My littlest guy is two already, and it’s just not the same not having a baby around…

Margaret

 

[Dempsey1919]

We don’t just need holy, dedicated priests. We also desperately need physicists and housewives and bus drivers and investment bankers and kindergarten teachers who are totally committed to Jesus Christ.

I really like the idea of saintly people in the secular world. I still have a little trouble with the “Numerary” role, but I really like the ideals of the “Supernumerary” way of life. I think it’s great that married individuals are able to live according to a rule of life that helps them grow in holiness while still being able to work in the “world.” I could see myself becoming a supernumerary member of Opus Dei in many years to come.

Could you please give us more information about the average day in the life of a Supernumerary member of Opus Dei? I would be interested in learning about the spiritual practices that these members have to undertake every day.

 

[JReducation]

Hi,

I am currently based in Europe. :winter: At any case I have been near OD for almost 2years now. I have some concerns though. Though I have not experienced anything negative, and I sort of buy into their message, I still wonder why they need to be in front line of marketing their group in internet etc. Really, Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites etc orders, have not needed to do that. Good message seems to speak for itself. Another fact I am concerned with is, why there seems to be relative amount of people online, with their web pages, whom seem to be totally normal, and they are very radically against OD, some calling it even ‘cult’. Can somebody answer these, for I am Mainly the people I have met have been really nice, and appeared to be happy with their lives, that includes numeraries, supernumeraries, and priests…

The use of the internet as a modern means of communication is available and used by many institutes of consecrated life and secular institutes. The Dominicans, Franciscans, Augustinians, Trappists, Carthusians, Benedictines, even the Missionaries of Charity do recruite vocations using the internet. It is cheaper than using print, which was the mode in the past. It reaches a larger number of people for a lower price.

The Opus Dei are not a cult, nor are they a religious order or religious congregation. They are a prelature. A prelature is the equivalent of a diocese without boundaries. They have everything that a diocese has: clergy, consecrated members, lay members, schools, and other ministries.

The movement of the Opus Dei is to do the work of God in the world. This is not so different from the call that St. Francis received and why St. Francis founded his Secular Order. The difference is that the Opus Dei do not have a Rule of Life like the Secular Franciscans and they do not make a public profession that is received by the Church as the Secular Franciscans, because they are not an Order.

St. Msgr Escriva, did not want them to be an order. He wanted them to be a powerful voice of totally secular lay men and women who lived the life they were called to live with all of its diversity, unlike the Franciscan Seculars who live their life in the world, but they must follow the rule of St. Francis and the directives of St. Francis. They have to accommodate their secular life to the Franciscan spirit.

The Opus Dei seeks to sanctify the work of man so that God can work through it and thus it becomes the Work of God, hence the Latin term, Opus Dei.

They are not a cult and they are very much loved by the Church.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Cara_Serrano]

I heard about this group when I was in Spain. It seems to have more power and influence there, possibly because the founder is from Spain. When I came back to the US, a friend joined the American branch of Opus Dei and it seemed like a dedicated group of lay people. However, something about it bothered me and I did not join. It had a secretive aspect to it that I found not in keeping with the complete openness of the Gospels. This may have been a trait of the local group and not of the organization as a whole, but it was enough to turn me off.

 

[JReducation]

I heard about this group when I was in Spain. It seems to have more power and influence there, possibly because the founder is from Spain. When I came back to the US, a friend joined the American branch of Opus Dei and it seemed like a dedicated group of lay people. However, something about it bothered me and I did not join. It had a secretive aspect to it that I found not in keeping with the complete openness of the Gospels. This may have been a trait of the local group and not of the organization as a whole, but it was enough to turn me off.

They do have a certain secretive aspect about them. However, it is not uncommon. Even religious orders have it. I’m not talking about the religious congregations of sisters and brothers that you find in our parishes, schools or hospitals. The Congregations are very open.

Orders tend to have what I like to refer to as discretion. There are certain things that they do not share with the outsider. It is never something bad that they are hiding. But it is usually customs, rules, practices, traditions, or decisions that they consider should be shared on an as needed basis. They do this to avoid confusing the outsider.

In our own Franciscan family, the Rule of St. Francis has been a public document since it was written in 1209. But the Constitutions, which are the commentary on the rule and the directives on how to apply the rule in daily life have never been made available to the laity until the year 2000. Even then, this is up to each community to do so. Some Franciscan communities do not publish their constitutions outside of their members, neither do other religious families.

This practice protects the outsider from being confused and protects the members of the institute from the laity. Religious Orders and Secular Institutes have to be very careful, because the laity has a tendency to want to tell them what to do and how to live.

This is just my opinion. But the more we move forward into a democratic society, the greater our tendency to think that the Church is also a democracy and that everyone should have an opinion and a vote on everything.

Democracy has a good side in terms of equalizing the masses. It also has a down side. It can be very chaotic, because things take too long to be decided. There are too many opinions. Too many chiefs and not enough indians.

The goal of Opus Dei and other institutes is to live an orderliy life. So you keep certain things internally to avoid all of this confusion where everyone wants to fix what is not broken, even if it is none of their business.

I’m not a member of Opus Dei. I’m not allowed to be. But I can undestand them and their desire for a certain amount of privacy.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Red_Meg]

Could you please give us more information about the average day in the life of a Supernumerary member of Opus Dei? I would be interested in learning about the spiritual practices that these members have to undertake every day.

Sorry, Dempsey, not trying to ignore your question, I’ve just been bowled over the last few days with sinusitis. Still not cleared up. Best reading on a “day in the life” is this piece. Written several years ago, but still totally relevant and accurate.

Margaret

 

[AveSantaMaria]

May Christ, Mary, and Joseph bless all of you who have kindly contributed to this thread!

One other question - Opus Dei and Women. Reading online I have heard very negative things about Opus Dei and women. I have had extremely little personal contact with Opus Dei although I hope to change that soon, but my personal contacts have suggested to me that people who are extremely conservative tend to be attracted to join this order. I personally am a moderate in many things except devotion to my faith so I greatly wonder if I might be comfortable interacting frequently an environment that his heavily conservative or if a more moderate organization might be better for my personal sanctification and holiness. Any thoughts on this? How is Opus Dei for women? Is the social conservativeness that I notice something that you think is holy or comes with holiness and deep, devout, and sustained commitment or simply an incidental aspect of the order, in that it tends to attract conservatives just as some orders may attract people in active ministry that go out on the street, others attract intellectuals, others attract contemplatives, etc.

Concerning the secretiveness of Opus Dei, is it possible for me to find out everything about the order from interacting with Opus Dei members and members’ friends and researching online or is it an order where I will simply not fully understand it unless I join? Are any of the private aspects of Opus Dei understood only by Opus Dei members especially difficult to accept or live with or do any of them cause spiritual troubles, quandries, and questions?

Thank you again most sincerely for your kindness in reading and responding if the Holy Spirit directs.

 

[JReducation]

May Christ, Mary, and Joseph bless all of you who have kindly contributed to this thread!

One other question - Opus Dei and Women. Reading online I have heard very negative things about Opus Dei and women. I have had extremely little personal contact with Opus Dei although I hope to change that soon, but my personal contacts have suggested to me that people who are extremely conservative tend to be attracted to join this order.
Thank you again most sincerely for your kindness in reading and responding if the Holy Spirit directs.

I truncated your message for the sake of space. Let’s clear up the first misunerstanding. Opus Dei is NOT an order. They have no rule, no constitution, no set way of life, no public profession and are not under the jurisdiction of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life. They are a lay and secular movement that was organized into a personal prelature of the pope.

This means that they are like a diocese without boundaries, where the Holy Father is their Ordinary and their leadership governs in his name. They have consecrated people in private vows, but that’s not a requirement. They also have priests, but they are secular, not religious. And they have entire families. They follow the spirituality that St. Jose Maria Escriva developed for them based on the apostolate of the laity. Their mission is to turn their daily work into the work of God, which is what Opus Dei means in Latin.

As to conservative, that’s a relative term. What some may find conservative others do not. The best way that I can describe them is very orthodox. They embrace the teachings of the Church and the authority of the Holy Father with special devotion, especially the to Church’s social teachings, the apostolate of the laity and the reform of the liturgy. They are very devoted to the Eucharist and daily mass, frequent confession and private prayer. They are also very devoted to the Blessed Mother.

Regarding women, they do not discriminate againt women in any form. Women in Opus Dei occupy leadership roles in the organization and sub-organizations that they have. I have worked with two Opus Dei women who were very efficient in their work, very devoted to the sacraments and prayer. On the same hand, they were very professional in dress and their dealings with people. They always seemed to be very happy and brought a great deal of cheer to the workplace. Yes they wear pants. No they do not cover their heads in church. They serve in various ministries on the altar and in the community. One of the women I worked with was a young PhD who taught at the university where I taught. She also ran a residence for girls who were in college and could not afford university housing. I guess you can call her a house mother. The girls seems to enjoy her company and leadership a great deal.

Not being a member of Opus Dei all I can say is that my experience with them has been very positive and I have been very favorably impressed by their joy and their love for their daily life and work. They are certainly an exciting witness of the Apostolate of the Laity as promulgated by Vatican II implement very correctly and in a very dynamic way.

You may want to visit their website online. Sorry that I can’t offer more information on them.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Red_Meg]

One other question - Opus Dei and Women. Reading online I have heard very negative things about Opus Dei and women. I have had extremely little personal contact with Opus Dei although I hope to change that soon, but my personal contacts have suggested to me that people who are extremely conservative tend to be attracted to join this order. I personally am a moderate in many things except devotion to my faith so I greatly wonder if I might be comfortable interacting frequently an environment that his heavily conservative or if a more moderate organization might be better for my personal sanctification and holiness. Any thoughts on this?

It would help me answer your question better if I knew what you meant by “conservative.” Everybody in Opus Dei tries to be completely faithful to the teachings of the Church. According to some people, anybody who believes the Church’s teachings regarding human sexuality and marriage is, by definition, conservative. And since we in Opus Dei would certainly accept these teachings (along with all the rest) then in some people’s eyes that means automatically conservative. But then I’ve met other, more “old-fashioned” types, if you will, who are utterly horrified that there are any women in Opus Dei whatsoever who have successful professional careers. These people understand Catholicism to somehow include the 1950’s Leave it to Beaver scene, with June washing the dishes and gazing adoringly at her husband in the pearls and high heels. That is definitely** not** every woman in Opus Dei. So I’d totally love to address your question, but I need a little clarification first, pleasy?

snip

Concerning the secretiveness of Opus Dei, is it possible for me to find out everything about the order from interacting with Opus Dei members and members’ friends and researching online or is it an order where I will simply not fully understand it unless I join? Are any of the private aspects of Opus Dei understood only by Opus Dei members especially difficult to accept or live with or do any of them cause spiritual troubles, quandries, and questions?

We really try not to be secretive in the negative sense of the word. I certainly share more or less about my belonging to Opus Dei depending on who I’m speaking to and how I perceive it will be received. I think it was earlier in this same thread that I brought up the whole “freak show” aspect of things. If I’m sure I’m going to get a freak show reaction from someone, I just don’t bring it up. It would be counterproductive. I just try to keep radiating Christian cheerfulness as best I can in hopes that somewhere down the line the other person will be better able to understand what Opus Dei is about, KWIM? As far as “research”-- the previously mentioned books would be really helpful, and there is a brand-spaking new one out, Women in Opus Dei: In Their Own Words, which you might find helpful regarding the role of women.

People who are considering a vocation to the Work normally receive spiritual direction from someone in the Work for some time before actually requesting admission. That is normally a great time to get questions answered, and if you’re like me, you’ll keep bombarding the other people with tons of questions until all concerns are satisfied! Additionally, after someone asks to join Opus Dei, the first six months is a period of very, very intense formation about the nature and spirit of the Work. Classes and talks about absolutely everything. This is another chance to bombard with questions. Only after those first six months of classes can someone actually be admitted to the Work, and even after that, there is another full year of more classes.

Basically, we really love freedom in Opus Dei. And the only way to make a truly free choice is to make a truly informed choice. There would be no point in “keeping something” from someone until they’d been in the Work a few years, and then springing it on them. “You mean we never told you about the chicken sacrifices?!?” LOL. It would totally violate a person’s freedom to do that.

I hope this helps. Please keep the questions coming if there is more.

Best,

Margaret

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I truncated your message for the sake of space. Let’s clear up the first misunerstanding. Opus Dei is NOT an order. They have no rule, no constitution, no set way of life, no public profession and are not under the jurisdiction of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life. They are a lay and secular movement that was organized into a personal prelature of the pope.

This means that they are like a diocese without boundaries, where the Holy Father is their Ordinary and their leadership governs in his name. They have consecrated people in private vows, but that’s not a requirement. They also have priests, but they are secular, not religious. And they have entire families. They follow the spirituality that St. Jose Maria Escriva developed for them based on the apostolate of the laity. Their mission is to turn their daily work into the work of God, which is what Opus Dei means in Latin.

Thank you! This is very helpful. For example, it’s the first time that I’ve heard of the difference between a ‘secular priest’ and a ‘religious priest.’ I actually thought that the phrase ‘secular priest’ was an oxymoron before, and I’m not sure that I understand the meaning of this phrase. I googled ‘personal prelature’ and saw this wikipedia.org link ‘http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_prelature’
“In a nutshell: personal prelatures are fundamentally secular organizations operating in the world (members take no vows and love normal, everyday lives), where religious orders are religious organizations operating out of the world (members take vows and lead lives in accordance with their specific organization).” Maybe someone has more information on what this means. If one joins Opus Dei without taking any vows, what is the significance of joining versus seeking spiritual direction with Opus Dei and reading Opus Dei works online?

Not being a member of Opus Dei all I can say is that my experience with them has been very positive and I have been very favorably impressed by their joy and their love for their daily life and work. They are certainly an exciting witness of the Apostolate of the Laity as promulgated by Vatican II implement very correctly and in a very dynamic way.

You may want to visit their website online. Sorry that I can’t offer more information on them.

Fraternally,

JR

That’s lovely to hear!

 

[AveSantaMaria]

It would help me answer your question better if I knew what you meant by “conservative.” Everybody in Opus Dei tries to be completely faithful to the teachings of the Church. According to some people, anybody who believes the Church’s teachings regarding human sexuality and marriage is, by definition, conservative. And since we in Opus Dei would certainly accept these teachings (along with all the rest) then in some people’s eyes that means automatically conservative. But then I’ve met other, more “old-fashioned” types, if you will, who are utterly horrified that there are any women in Opus Dei whatsoever who have successful professional careers. These people understand Catholicism to somehow include the 1950’s Leave it to Beaver scene, with June washing the dishes and gazing adoringly at her husband in the pearls and high heels. That is definitely** not** every woman in Opus Dei. So I’d totally love to address your question, but I need a little clarification first, pleasy?

These are just free flow definitions, not set in stone, but I think that I define faithfulness to the Church as ‘orthodox,’ while I define ‘social conservatism’ as ‘resistance to change regarding social mores.’ One of my favorite aspects about Opus Dei that I learn of from considering the order, its the bright spot of orthodoxy that I suspect is possessed by members of this order. I’d be curious to know to what extent the “old-fashioned” types exist and how it would impact one to be a woman in Opus Dei who had a professional career. I strongly suspect that this article is strongly biased but it is worrying all the same. Book lifts cowl on ‘misogynist’ Opus Dei telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1568302/Book-lifts-cowl-on-misogynist-Opus-Dei.html I would be most appreciative to know what in this article is true, what is not, what is common practice, what is a rarity of her experience.

We really try not to be secretive in the negative sense of the word. I certainly share more or less about my belonging to Opus Dei depending on who I’m speaking to and how I perceive it will be received. I think it was earlier in this same thread that I brought up the whole “freak show” aspect of things. If I’m sure I’m going to get a freak show reaction from someone, I just don’t bring it up. It would be counterproductive. I just try to keep radiating Christian cheerfulness as best I can in hopes that somewhere down the line the other person will be better able to understand what Opus Dei is about, KWIM? As far as “research”-- the previously mentioned books would be really helpful, and there is a brand-spaking new one out, Women in Opus Dei: In Their Own Words, which you might find helpful regarding the role of women.

Thanks a lot for the book recommendation and the knowledge about sharing belongingness to Opus Dei! Many things in this world experience stigma or unhealthy curiosity so it certainly does seem wise to use discretion and discernment in sharing. Are there any formal rules on sharing though?

People who are considering a vocation to the Work normally receive spiritual direction from someone in the Work for some time before actually requesting admission. That is normally a great time to get questions answered, and if you’re like me, you’ll keep bombarding the other people with tons of questions until all concerns are satisfied!

Awesome to hear that!

Additionally, after someone asks to join Opus Dei, the first six months is a period of very, very intense formation about the nature and spirit of the Work. Classes and talks about absolutely everything. This is another chance to bombard with questions. Only after those first six months of classes can someone actually be admitted to the Work, and even after that, there is another full year of more classes.

Basically, we really love freedom in Opus Dei. And the only way to make a truly free choice is to make a truly informed choice. There would be no point in “keeping something” from someone until they’d been in the Work a few years, and then springing it on them. “You mean we never told you about the chicken sacrifices?!?” LOL. It would totally violate a person’s freedom to do that.

I hope this helps. Please keep the questions coming if there is more.

Best,

Margaret

Great. It is lovely and heavily reassuring to hear that Opus Dei is not a group that “keeps things” from people until they’ve been in the Work a few years (or even officially joined) and then springs it on them. It is wonderful to hear that Opus Dei greatly respects the principle of informed choice, and is very positive to hear that you have thought intellectually about the issues of informed choice and free will. I do think that with every vocation is like marriage in the sense that one really should know as much about the vocation as possible over a long period of time in order to honestly, genuinely, and truly make a lifelong commitment. I hope to learn more about religious orders and Opus Dei as well for over the next year before considering any sort of formation.

 

[Red_Meg]

AveSantaMaria:

I’d be curious to know to what extent the “old-fashioned” types exist and how it would impact one to be a woman in Opus Dei who had a professional career. I strongly suspect that this article is strongly biased but it is worrying all the same.

Sorry to take a while in getting back to you. I’m trying (trying!!) to spend less time online for Lent…

Truthfully, I simply don’t know what to make of that woman’s claims. They are so completely far-removed from what I have experienced that it kind of defies explanation. It’s almost like that old Star Trek episode where Kirk ends up in a parallel universe where things are kind of the same, but twisted and wrong. Some of the stuff-- like the tolerance for wife-beating-- I find zero correspondence to in my experience. Some of the other stuff-- like spiritual direction-- has a few of the superficial details correct, like meeting every other week, but gets the whole heart and soul of it totally warped.

I’m sorry I can’t say more about it-- the whole account just leaves me kind of dumb-founded, it is simply that different and contradictory from what I’ve found and seen in Opus Dei.

As far as your professional career question goes-- there are plenty of successful “career women” in Opus Dei and there are plenty of homemakers like myself. All honest work is equally valued, and we are all encouraged to work our very best for the glory of God. The one thing I will say as a mother of a large family is that it is very, very nice to have a place where no one will look down on my brood as somehow being beneath a woman of my education, which I have absolutely encountered from some of my “feminist” friends.

I hope this helps some. I will be trying (again!) to stay offline as much as possible in the coming weeks. PMs are fine, but I will probably not jump into this thread again…

Best regards to all, and a Happy Feast of St. Joseph!!! :bounce:

Margaret