Opus Dei

[Crusading_Canuk]

I was wondering about Opus Dei, are they Traditionalists in the sense that they use the Latin Mass or are they just Catholic social conservatives who use the new mass. Also how many legitimate priestly (besides SSPX and FSSP) orders still use solely the Latin Mass?

 

[JReducation]

Whoa! You have been given a lot of misinformation here. Let’s back peddle. SSPX and FSSP are secular, not religious. Religious are consecrated men or women who make vows in a stable community canonically erected by either the Pope or the local bishop.

There are four kinds of religious institutes: congregations, orders, societies and abbeys. The Opus Dei, SSPX and FSSP do not belong to any of these. They are secular men who are ordained priests, but they remain in the secular state, because they do not make vows. The FSSP and SSPX are Secular Clerical Societies of Apostolic Life. The Opus Dei is a Personal Prelature of the Holy Father. It is not an order, congregation, society, or an institute. Within the Prelature, there are Public Associations of the Faithful. The Opus Dei are big defenders of tradition, but they celebrate only the OF. They are not allowed to celebrate the EF without permission of the Holy Father himself. He is their Superior General. Currently, they have a vicar appointed to govern them in the name of the Holy Father.

Currently, there are no religious orders in the Catholic Church that celebrate the EF. There are some religious orders that have their own rite, which is in Latin and very similar to the EF, but it’s not the Tridentine form. The Tridentine form is part of the Roman Rite. These other rites are not part of the Roman Rite, though they are Latin Rites: ie. Carthusian Rite.

There are some religious congregations that celebrate the EF: Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer, Franciscans of the Immaculate, Franciscans of the Eternal Word and others. The Franciscans use both the EF and the OF. The Major Superiors of the Franciscans have never given permission for exclusive use of the EF. However, the Franciscans of the Immaculate are often given the permission by houses, if they can guarantee that they will not refuse to celebrate the OF when asked to do so by the brotherhood.

There are also religious societies that celebrate the EF: Canons of St. John Cantius come to mind right away. There are a few others.

In the Catholic Churches (all 22 of them) there is only one order of priests, the Jesuits. Religious orders of men are broken down into the following: hermits, monks, friars and clerks regular. In these orders a man may be a priest, if he is approved by his superior and by his brothers. He cannot choose to be a priest without permission. The order can deny the permission for ordination, but he remains a member of the order until death. The vows supersede the Sacrament of Holy Orders. You may not ask for Holy Orders until you have made solemn vows until death. By that time, if you are denied permission to be ordained, it’s too late to leave. Only the Holy Father can dispense you from the vows. You will recognize the orders because we have the letter “O” after our name. For example, my initials are OSF (Order of St. Francis). An Augustinian is OSA. The Jesuits are the only order that I know that is referred to as a society, but is really an order. They are Clerks Regular.

The Dominicans, Augustinians, Carthusians, Cistercians and Carmelites are what we call clerical institutes. They are orders of friars or monks, but the clerics are the only ones allowed to govern. That is the only difference between an ordained brother and a non-cleric brother.

We do have religious congregations of priests. Religious congregations are not orders. They make vows, live in community, but do not have the same rights as the orders or the same spiritual benefits. Their way of life is very different from the orders.

I hope this helped.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Damase]

I was wondering about Opus Dei, are they Traditionalists in the sense that they use the Latin Mass or are they just Catholic social conservatives who use the new mass. Also how many legitimate priestly (besides SSPX and FSSP) orders still use solely the Latin Mass?

As Brother JR mentioned, Opus Dei does not use the forma extraordinaria—you use the term “Latin Mass”, I assume, to refer to the Old Mass. They say the Novus Ordo, but very reverently, and often entirely in Latin (as is allowed by the GIRM and, in fact, expected by the Council).

Wikipedia has a rather complete list of Roman Catholic priestly societies and religious institutes that use a pre-1970 version of the Roman Missal (note well, however, that not all those listed are in communion with the Holy See).

Most of those communities, however, do not “still” say the Old Mass, as if they had never stopped doing so. Many are new communities; some are off-shoots of canonically irregular organizations like the SSPX—the FSSP, for example, was founded by a contingent of the SSPX wishing to remain loyal to Rome after the illicit Econe consecrations in 1988.

 

[malphono]

Currently, there are no religious orders in the Catholic Church that celebrate the EF.

Well … actually I can think of one: The O.Praem (Norbertines). They do not use the EF exclusively, but they do use it.

NB: Of course the O.Praem had its own Rite, but abandoned it (by vote of the General Chapter) in favor of the Roman shortly after Trent. The Rite itself was never suppressed, and although it is not likely to happen, it could, in theory at least, be reprised the same way it was abandoned.

 

[HCC]

No. Opus Dei does not use the Extraordinary Form, in fact and I happen to be sitting across from this person right now, a friend of mine was staying at one of their houses in London a few years ago and mentioned to them that he was going to a Latin Mass and they were not pleased. I don’t know if that has changed in light of the Motu Proprio, but they were not fans of TLM up to a few years ago.

I am personally not a fan of OD and it has nothing to do with what form of Mass they celebrate. We will have to leave it at that.

 

[malphono]

I am personally not a fan of OD and it has nothing to do with what form of Mass they celebrate. We will have to leave it at that.

Nor am I for that matter, and never have been. Our reasons may or may not be similar, but I think your right: best not to get into details here.

 

[OraLabora]

Well … actually I can think of one: The O.Praem (Norbertines). They do not use the EF exclusively, but they do use it.

NB: Of course the O.Praem had its own Rite, but abandoned it (by vote of the General Chapter) in favor of the Roman shortly after Trent. The Rite itself was never suppressed, and although it is not likely to happen, it could, in theory at least, be reprised the same way it was abandoned.

There are at least a couple of Benedictine houses that use the EF as well. Fontgombault and Barroux in France, Clear Creek in the US.

 

[JReducation]

Well … actually I can think of one: The O.Praem (Norbertines). They do not use the EF exclusively, but they do use it.

NB: Of course the O.Praem had its own Rite, but abandoned it (by vote of the General Chapter) in favor of the Roman shortly after Trent. The Rite itself was never suppressed, and although it is not likely to happen, it could, in theory at least, be reprised the same way it was abandoned.

I should have made my sentence more clear. The way that I understood the question was whether there is an order that uses the EF exclusively. My answer is, not to my knowledge. There are orders where the EF is used either intermittently or exclusively in some houses or even in some obediences, but not by the entire order. For example, the Franciscans of the Immaculate use it quite extensively. But they are one obedience of a family with ober 100 obediences. One woiuld not refer to the Franciscan Order as an EF order.

Sorry for the confusion. My bad

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Seamus_L]

At a Latin Mass parish I often attend, we regularly have an Opus Dei priest who comes to hear confession.

 

[HCC]

At a Latin Mass parish I often attend, we regularly have an Opus Dei priest who comes to hear confession.

If that were my parish, I would raise a stink, but that’s just me.

 

[magdalina]

I was wondering about Opus Dei, are they Traditionalists in the sense that they use the Latin Mass or are they just Catholic social conservatives who use the new mass. Also how many legitimate priestly (besides SSPX and FSSP) orders still use solely the Latin Mass?

As an institution, OD does not currently permit the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Liturgy to be offered in/on any of its properties.

Opus Dei is to the traditions of the Catholic Church what John McCain is to American conservative movement. Californians, think Meg Whitman.

Jose Maria Escriva de Balaguer, the founder of Opus Dei, anticipated and
Developed 30 years before Vatican II a revolutionary, new, secular theology of
the laity, and accepted the principle of pluralism and indifferentism: a Novus
Ordo Seclorum.

   In 1982 John Paul II created this group as a "personal prelature."

Suspiciously, this act occurred in the same year that the wealthy sect allegedly
had transferred almost $1,000,000,000 into the Vatican Bank, bailing it out of
an embarrassing bankruptcy. In a second maneuver that raised eyebrows, the pope
placed the founder of Opus Dei on the “fast track” for New Order sainthood,
accelerating an often centuries-long waiting-period for canonization to a mere
twenty years.

   Opus Deistas are part of the New Order Church.  Opus Dei is a chameleon

organization, being liberal or conservative, whichever benefits its agenda.
Juan Estruch in his book “Saints and Schemers” described this as “dual ethics.”
Michael Walsh, in his book, “Opus Dei: An Investigation Into the Secret Society
Struggling For Power Within the Roman Catholic Church,” has also written in
detail about the inner workings of Opus Dei.

en.allexperts.com/q/Catholics-955/Opus-Dei-1.htm

 

[malphono]

There are at least a couple of Benedictine houses that use the EF as well. Fontgombault and Barroux in France, Clear Creek in the US.

Yes, indeed. That one is my bad. The OSB totally slipped my mind.

 

[malphono]

I should have made my sentence more clear. The way that I understood the question was whether there is an order that uses the EF exclusively. My answer is, not to my knowledge. There are orders where the EF is used either intermittently or exclusively in some houses or even in some obediences, but not by the entire order. For example, the Franciscans of the Immaculate use it quite extensively. But they are one obedience of a family with ober 100 obediences. One woiuld not refer to the Franciscan Order as an EF order.

Sorry for the confusion. My bad

I guess we’re both guilty here. I read your comment to say that none of the Orders (as opposed to congregations, societies, etc) used the EF. And then I totally forgot about the OSB. Ooops …

 

[Edward_H]

Opus Dei exists for formation principally; personal, individual formation. It’s not for carrying the torch for traditionalism or liberalism or for reform or anything, other than being totally available to help people with their formation and interior life…their pursuit of holiness and apostolate.

 

[Edward_H]

As an institution, OD does not currently permit the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Liturgy to be offered in/on any of its properties.

Opus Dei is to the traditions of the Catholic Church what John McCain is to American conservative movement. Californians, think Meg Whitman.

For a calmer, more thorough description of Opus Dei read John Allen’s book on it.

 

[magdalina]

For a calmer, more thorough description of Opus Dei read John Allen’s book on it.

My local public library has Opus Dei: An Investigation into the Powerful Secretive Society within the Catholic Church [Walsh] and Opus Dei: An Objective Look Behind the Myths and Reality of the Most Controversial Force in the Catholic Church [Allen]. And yes, I have read them both.

For those who truly value “calm” treatment of this subject may want to skip both those titles and go directly to Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Grace: My Spiritual Journey in Opus Dei.

BTW, what does the word “shill” mean?

 

[Edward_H]

My local public library has Opus Dei: An Investigation into the Powerful Secretive Society within the Catholic Church [Walsh] and Opus Dei: An Objective Look Behind the Myths and Reality of the Most Controversial Force in the Catholic Church [Allen]. And yes, I have read them both.

For those who truly value “calm” treatment of this subject may want to skip both those titles and go directly to Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Grace: My Spiritual Journey in Opus Dei.

BTW, what does the word “shill” mean?

Hahn’s book is fine, but Allen’s book is a bit more detailed and objective. Hahn of course was helped into the Church by some members of the Work. And soon after became a member of Opus Dei. Allen writes for the mostly left leaning National Catholic Reporter, and yet he wrote an excellent book about the Work, minus all the “secret conspiracy” nonsense. Hahn’s book is more his personal journey and an excellent description of the Work’s spirituality (divine filiation, spirit of sacrifice, converting work into prayer, etc.).

And for those who truly do like “secret conspiracy” and aren’t wedded to reality, they can read Dan Brown’s knee-slapper.

 

[Edward_H]

BTW, what does the word “shill” mean?

The definition of shill can be found here: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill

 

[magdalina]

Originally Posted by Edward H

Hahn’s book is more his personal journey and an excellent description of the Work’s spirituality (divine filiation, spirit of sacrifice, converting work into prayer, etc.).
Edward H:

The definition of shill can be found here: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Edward_H]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Charity, no? No limit to the help it can provide when given generously.

I love one of St Josemaria’s points from the Way.

173 That joke, that witty remark held on the tip of your tongue; the cheerful smile for those who annoy you; that silence when you’re unjustly accused; your friendly conversation with people whom you find boring and tactless; the daily effort to overlook one irritating detail or another in the persons who live with you… this, with perseverance, is indeed solid interior mortification.