Opus Dei

[Chancellare]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. The things you mention would also give me serious reservation about joining Opus Dei, however, as I understand it, one can become either a “numerary” or a “supernumerary” member of Opus Dei, the former requiring the life-embracing commitment similar to what a priestly or religious vocation requires of a person.

Perhaps it is only the numeraries who must live under the extreme submission to authority you mention, and who knows, maybe it truly is what God has called them to. Of course I don’t know, this is just speculation and based on a few things I’ve heard about the organization. If anyone can provide correction or more information that would be helpful.

Suggest you talk to a numerary priest and take it straight from the horse’s mouth.
Many misconceptions arise from hear-say, especially from those who hate conservative Catholicism, either in or out.

Take for example the phrase ‘must live under extreme submission to authority’. You might want to know what is meant by ‘extreme’. If it means somebody takes a position that we must follow the CCC, it is going to be ‘very extreme’ to some. But aren’t we all supposed to follow the CCC?

 

[Chancellare]

Just to weigh in about people talking about cults and things: just remember that highly organised groups which are not dangerous will look like cults. Heck, the word “cult” has been hijacked; Opus Dei in my book is a cult, but a good one!!

The persecuted Christians during the Roman times were considered as ‘crazy cult’ members for following a ‘renegade Rabbi’.

 

[Sayanz]

This one is just from CAF:
experienceswithopusdei.blogspot.com/search/label/Catholic%20Answers%20Forum

 

[Sayanz]

For Traditional Catholics, you might want to know that Opus Dei has been called by Benedict XVI as “absolute fidelity to the Catholic Church’s tradition, its faith.”

 

[tcraig]

Pope Benedict’s personal secretary, “Gorgeous Georg” is an Opus Dei priest. You can read a short interview and see pictures (scroll down) here.

Scott Hahn, in his book Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Grace, lists the “basic plan” that Opus Dei members follow (tailored to their circumstances). It includes:

• Morning Offering
• Mental Prayer
• Mass
• Angelus
• Rosary
• Reading of the Gospel and some spiritual book
• Some small act of penance
• A short visit to the tabernacle
• Preces (the daily prayers of Opus Dei)
• Examination of conscience
• Three Hail Marys at bedtime
• The Sign of the Cross with holy water

I’m not personally a member of Opus Dei, but I’ve found The Seven Daily Habits of Holy Apostolic People to be very helpful to my spiritual growth. Fr. McCloskey is an Opus Dei priest.

 

[Scottgun]

I’ve been to recollections and have several good friends who are supernumeraries. I’ve considered joining, but really haven’t discerned a call to so far. Opus Dei has all the right enemies–it gets attacked by the Right because it is fully on board with Vatican II and JPII. The Left also attacks it for not going in for faddish egalitarian nonsense. I once saw a anti-OD sight that had an item that quoted Escriva’s The Way and asserted it proved the evilness of OD because those quotes did not synch with the principles of the French Revolution. (No, really. I’m not kidding.)

IOW, they must be doing something right.

 

[markadm]

Pope Benedict’s personal secretary, “Gorgeous Georg” is an Opus Dei priest. You can read a short interview and see pictures (scroll down) here.

Not that I have anything against them, but I have heard unequivocally that Mgr. Gänswein merely lectures at an Opus Dei theological college and is not a numerary (supernumerary?).

 

[IrishBrigade]

I was really turned off by the oppulence of their headquaters in Murray Hill. Not a dime was spared I can tell you that.

…would that be Murray Hill, N.J.???

 

[lukewarm]

I was really turned off by the oppulence of their headquaters in Murray Hill. Not a dime was spared I can tell you that.

…would that be Murray Hill, N.J.???

Murray Hill neighborhood of Manhattan, it’s the area in the 30’s by Lexington Avenue.

 

[Elizabeth2]

Most people I’ve met involved with Opus Dei seem very normal to me, as do the priests I’ve talked to. I don’t live near any of the centres so I couldn’t join them, but their example of taking the faith seriously is one that I can imitate.

 

[Sure]

Opus Dei is a good organization but like any human organization it has its flaws and its crazy members. It’s not a cult, in a negative sense, anyway.

St Josemaria is a saint and wrote many good things. His followers, of course, don’t always get it right.

These are some common problems that I have seen:

Lay spiritual direction - many members of Opus Dei give spiritual direction to each other despite a lack of training and many times a huge lack of education on the Faith. This direction would be much more effective if done by someone with qualifications (a priest). I have met way too many supernumeraries who are totally unqualified to do such work. It’s a bit of the blind leading the blind.

Overemphasis on the Supernatural - Man is both natural and supernatural, yet many in OD forsake the natural order for the supernatural. Sometimes, the rosary can wait. Sometimes, daily Mass must be missed to respond to the natural needs of the family.

Evangelization of good Catholics - Many times, the people being “recruited” by Opus Dei are people who are attending daily Mass. The members of OD would be much better served going out into the world and working to evangelize NON-catholics or fallen-away catholics. Too often they fall into the comfortable area of recruiting among devout Catholics…these people don’t need OD. This tactic can give people the perception that OD is a separate religion insofar as its members sometimes view people as “Catholics” and “Catholics in the Work.”

Secrecy for No reason - They are getting better about this but there is waaaay too much secrecy for no good reason. Circles that you have to “join” or you must stop attending??? Please. If the goal is to catechize and evangelize then don’t make “signing up” a requirement for attending such events.

Anyway, that’s my take on 30+ years of interation.

NB, I like Opus Dei and the priests are very good and well educated.

 

[HollyDolly]

Well I have heard both good and bad things about them.They aren’t in my parish anyhow,and If i were to go that route and join someone,I would be more inclined to join the Carmelites or Franciscans as a lay member,a secular tertiary
rather than Opus Dei.For one thing I know about the Carmelites and Franciscans,and little about Opus Dei’s founder .And two,i have’nt heard anything negative about the Franciscans or Carmelites and they have been around for heaven knows how long and no one has ever describe them as a cult.

 

[lukewarm]

Their members are very generous, I can say that. Again, their members don’t make a vow of poverty. Yes, their centers are nice and this is where they hold their retreats. I’ve even seen some chalices with jewels people have donated to them imbedded inside (only the best touching Our Lord)…

The Chapel isn’t very ornate at all, it’s very nice but not over the top. The rest of the building is completely over the top, all walls lined in the finest mahogany, the finest italian tile throughout the hallways. It has nothing to do with the Lord at all IMO. I’m not against nice Churches or anything of that nature, but this wasn’t a Church it was their offices and headquarters, the Chapel was on one of the top floors and again pretty plain while the rest of the building was very extravagant. To me it was a turn off.

Obviously Opus Dei has money, but I don’t see any fruits of this wealth at all. I don’t ever see them evangelizing, or helping the poor in third world countries. No one even heard of them until the Da Vinci Code came out. They don’t reach out to the common laity at all, it’s like a special club closed off, open only to a tiny minority of die hards (they’re already die hard and orthodox how is this helping the Church?). This is completely antithetical to the great commission to go out and preach the Gospel.

I honestly don’t see any point they serve at all, they could better be suited using that money to feed the homeless throughout NYC and evangelize a rapidly declining Catholic population in the city.

I don’t get them basically, I don’t understand how they help preach the Gospel or benefit the Church. It seems like a secret society of uber Catholics where they revel in the fact about how dedicated they are.

 

[IronHammer]

The Chapel isn’t very ornate at all, it’s very nice but not over the top. The rest of the building is completely over the top, all walls lined in the finest mahogany, the finest italian tile throughout the hallways. It has nothing to do with the Lord at all IMO. I’m not against nice Churches or anything of that nature, but this wasn’t a Church it was their offices and headquarters, the Chapel was on one of the top floors and again pretty plain while the rest of the building was very extravagant. To me it was a turn off.

Obviously Opus Dei has money, but I don’t see any fruits of this wealth at all. I don’t ever see them evangelizing, or helping the poor in third world countries. No one even heard of them until the Da Vinci Code came out. They don’t reach out to the common laity at all, it’s like a special club closed off, open only to a tiny minority of die hards (they’re already die hard and orthodox how is this helping the Church?). This is completely antithetical to the great commission to go out and preach the Gospel.

I honestly don’t see any point they serve at all, they could better be suited using that money to feed the homeless throughout NYC and evangelize a rapidly declining Catholic population in the city.

I don’t get them basically, I don’t understand how they help preach the Gospel or benefit the Church. It seems like a secret society of uber Catholics where they revel in the fact about how dedicated they are.

These are the issues for me. Thanks for clarifying them so nicely. I want to be a part of a group of like-minded catholics who just want to live our lives with our families in total devotion to Christ and His Church. OD looks the part but I don’t see the fruits.

I am very interested to see what kind of responses you get. Surely members of OD will come forth and help clarify these issues.

Sorry if I seem contentious, I am just tired of seeing so many conflicting opinions on OD! I am so confused now I don’t know if it’s legit or not.

 

[gmarie21]

Opus Dei is a good organization but like any human organization it has its flaws and its crazy members. It’s not a cult, in a negative sense, anyway.

St Josemaria is a saint and wrote many good things. His followers, of course, don’t always get it right.

These are some common problems that I have seen:

Lay spiritual direction - many members of Opus Dei give spiritual direction to each other despite a lack of training and many times a huge lack of education on the Faith. This direction would be much more effective if done by someone with qualifications (a priest). I have met way too many supernumeraries who are totally unqualified to do such work. It’s a bit of the blind leading the blind.

Overemphasis on the Supernatural - Man is both natural and supernatural, yet many in OD forsake the natural order for the supernatural. Sometimes, the rosary can wait. Sometimes, daily Mass must be missed to respond to the natural needs of the family.

Evangelization of good Catholics - Many times, the people being “recruited” by Opus Dei are people who are attending daily Mass. The members of OD would be much better served going out into the world and working to evangelize NON-catholics or fallen-away catholics. Too often they fall into the comfortable area of recruiting among devout Catholics…these people don’t need OD. This tactic can give people the perception that OD is a separate religion insofar as its members sometimes view people as “Catholics” and “Catholics in the Work.”

Secrecy for No reason - They are getting better about this but there is waaaay too much secrecy for no good reason. Circles that you have to “join” or you must stop attending??? Please. If the goal is to catechize and evangelize then don’t make “signing up” a requirement for attending such events.

Anyway, that’s my take on 30+ years of interation.

NB, I like Opus Dei and the priests are very good and well educated.

agree with all you wrote. My high school theology teacher was/is Opus Dei and is a kind and loving soul who doesn’t say “Escriva” every other sentence. A woman at my parish is also OD and only talks about “Escriva” every other sentence. Both people are revernt but one is a turn off for OD, the other a great example (but I think it has more to do with their personalities). I signed up as a cooperator, but as a single mother did not feel like I could actively take part in any meetings (the meetings for mothers with young children were all during the weekdays - I work, and the meetings where a child would be a distraction were the times I could attend). I even called around for English speaking groups within an hour and a half driving distance and there were none to be found.

 

[bear06]

The Chapel isn’t very ornate at all, it’s very nice but not over the top. The rest of the building is completely over the top, all walls lined in the finest mahogany, the finest italian tile throughout the hallways. It has nothing to do with the Lord at all IMO. I’m not against nice Churches or anything of that nature, but this wasn’t a Church it was their offices and headquarters, the Chapel was on one of the top floors and again pretty plain while the rest of the building was very extravagant. To me it was a turn off.

I’m not really sure what you are talking about. The chapel is beautiful and can be seen on-line in this virtual tour of Murray Hill.
opusdei.us/art.php?p=15822&v=en/terri_murray The chapel hardly looks like the rest of the building and is the most beautiful room there.

Obviously Opus Dei has money, but I don’t see any fruits of this wealth at all. I don’t ever see them evangelizing, or helping the poor in third world countries. No one even heard of them until the Da Vinci Code came out. They don’t reach out to the common laity at all, it’s like a special club closed off, open only to a tiny minority of die hards (they’re already die hard and orthodox how is this helping the Church?). This is completely antithetical to the great commission to go out and preach the Gospel

 

[Scottgun]

This thread inspired my Joe Friday Opus Dei conversation policy: Just the facts ma’am.

 

[lukewarm]

I’m not really sure what you are talking about. The chapel is beautiful and can be seen on-line in this virtual tour of Murray Hill.
opusdei.us/art.php?p=15822&v=en/terri_murray The chapel hardly looks like the rest of the building and is the most beautiful room there.

I said it’s a nice Chapel but it is quite simple in terms of Catholic Churches go.

Then you haven’t researched enough. They have several third world apostolates. It’s also ridiculous to say that nobody heard about them until the Da Vinci Code. Brown made them a target because they are so well known. You can bet that those who hadn’t heard of them yet were introduced to them though. BTW, I am the common laity and they reached out to me. That said, they are a very quiet apostolate. They don’t run around recruiting and are quite frankly too worried about putting people off which makes them look secretive.

Well they are secretive no doubt about that. And I disagree that they are giving in any great numbers to third worlds. They are not an active voice in our community at all. They hide away in their mahogony fortress and do whatever it is they do all day. They do next to nothing to be active with the laity in the area.

Once again, you’re mssing it. While they highly encourage acts of charity and do a lot of charitable work in third world countries (and here for that matter), they also focus on the working class. It’s certainly not like that class doesn’t need a little evangelization too. They basically train and encourage those who can then, in turn, go out and do things like work with the poor. The thought that if not every aspect of their apostolate is feeding the homeless is bad is just silly. That’s like saying only the poor are spiritually deprived. Again, silly.

Well, I concur. You don’t get them.

I have never seen them do anything frankly, I mean that, with all that money, when have they ever been there to help Hurricane Katrina victims? Preach the Gospel? Actively go out and reach the indifferent laity?

One thing we do agree on is I just don’t get them at all… They seem to me to be a bunch of super Catholics who are quite content sitting in the company of other super Catholics when they should be in the trenches with their zeal, you don’t see that at all from them.

 

[bear06]

These are the issues for me. Thanks for clarifying them so nicely. I want to be a part of a group of like-minded catholics who just want to live our lives with our families in total devotion to Christ and His Church. OD looks

the part but I don’t see the fruits. What fruits are you looking for? Their goal is to teach people to sanctify their lives through their everday work. Basically, they teach people to take the mundane and make it a gift to God. We’re not all called to go out an be Sts. Peter, Francis, Joan, etc. Some of us are called to live very quiet lives of faith and we can do this through our everday activities. For me it includes dishes, laundry, cooking, etc. When we keep the focus on Our Lord, we can do all of these things, mundane as they are, as a gift for Our Lord. We increase our ability to do this by excercising our spiritual lives. frequent reception of the Sacraments, etc. Opus Dei helps people to get beyond the “I don’t have enough time” mentality and gets them to focus more on the “All things are possible with God” which enables us to find the time to share our talents and to help those in need.

Is being a card carrying member of Opus Dei for everyone. Nope and it’s not for me. We can’t all be called to the Jesuits, Carmelites, Franciscans, et. That said, I’m not sure how anyone can say that their spirituality isn’t beneficial which is probably why Opus Dei has so many priests who are cooperators (which is probably what Mgr. Gänswein probably is).

 

[bear06]

I said it’s a nice Chapel but it is quite simple in terms of Catholic Churches go.

But you were comparing it to the rest of the house which serves several people for several things. The chapel is the best room and most ornate in that house. Is it St. Peter’s? No.

Well they are secretive no doubt about that. And I disagree that they are giving in any great numbers to third worlds. They are not an active voice in our community at all. They hide away in their mahogony fortress and do whatever it is they do all day. They do next to nothing to be active with the laity in the area.