B
Bella3502
Guest
Since when does a “google” search mean the truth or legitimate fact?
Who is “we”?
Orange Diocese-Why hasn't our bishop and priests publicly opposed this Bill?
- Status
N
netmilsmom
Guest
No need to be offended. The word “you” is also plural and was not personal to you, but generally to society.
Every discussion of Homosexuality is a discussion of sex. They define themselves by their deviation.
One cannot influence a pedophile nor a psychopathic murderer by a good example. Sometimes it’s a matter of safety. In this case for potentially adopted children.
With references to the studies sited. They can also be researched on Google.
Are you talking about Bill Clinton? He was the president that put the last tax increase on Social Security. Health care for the poor? Have you not heard of Medicare/Medicaid? Geez, they have better care than I have! Here in MI, we also have MI Child (total health care for children under 18) for a measly 50.00 a month. I spend more on my co-pays and premiums. I wish I was so poor that I could get that. Maybe my hubby should quit his job so we can get some of it!
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Catholics, I pray.
The Vatican has condemned Homosexual marriage and adoption.
J
JNB
Guest
Rerum Novarum by the way condemned Socialism, and encouraged as widespread private property ownersip as possible. While I am no fan of president Bush, the truth is the Democrats are not any closer to the points that Rerum Novarum brought up.
harinkj:
N
netmilsmom
Guest
I’m a registered Independent and I vote Catholic!
If the Pope says okay, then so do I. If the Pope says no way, I do too.
H
harinkj
Guest
That is quite true. I wouldn’t argue with that.
- Kathie :bowdown:
H
harinkj
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Bill Clinton can teach us a lot: how not to live an exemplary life. There may be very little difference between Bush and Clinton; both have one main principle: get power.
Hate is so protestant: Living an exemplary life is Catholic.
Kathie :bowdown:
Anyone, who wants to sign away their assests, quit their jobs to live off of social programs and several McJobs, should do so right away. A very rude awakening awaits them. Strangely, no one ever does this.
Bill Clinton can teach us a lot: how not to live an exemplary life. There may be very little difference between Bush and Clinton; both have one main principle: get power.
That is a surprise.
Hate is so protestant: Living an exemplary life is Catholic.
Kathie :bowdown:
H
harinkj
Guest
It is very interesting that in the United States, this increased need to tell others how to run their lives rather than simply leading an exemplary life has increased since the introduction of the Novus Ordo vernacular Mass. Maybe I don’t get these urges to run other’s lives because i only attend the Tridentine Latim Mass.
Hate is so Protestant: leading an exemplary is Catholic.
Hate is so Protestant: leading an exemplary is Catholic.
- Kathie :bowdown:
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Honestly, to me, I don’t vote for the man, I vote for the principals
This is a religion forum and not a political one. Sorry I brought up Clinton, but here is a personal example about charity going too far.
I have two nephews. Both are married with children.
One works at a gas station. He, his wife, and his two children get 520.00 in rent from the government, 425.00 in food stamps, milk, cereal and cheese from WIC, all medical care free, and their boy goes to head start for free. Both children were born on Medicaid and were in the NICU for a time. It cost them nothing. They have two cars, DVD player, big screen tv and cell phones. She cooks lots of convenience foods.
The other nephew works in a movie theater, cleans the movie theater and delivers pizzas.
Two of their sons also were in the NICU at birth. They are still paying the bills on both boys (three and five) I gave them their van (10 years old and he fixed it up). She shops deals and makes things from scratch to save money. They have one 19 inch tv, no DVD player. They will not take from the Government. They struggle but hold their pride at not being on the dole. Who is better off and who is paying for it? Do you have a job? If you do, you are paying for the first. It’s funny to hear the one with three jobs talk to the one with all the government help! He tells him how it is.
The Christian point of self independence is also charitable. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. I will always give a person a hand up. Because you cannot know me, you also cannot judge me about how charitable I am.
And very many Catholics I know are living exemplary lives. Did you see 60 minutes II last night? The people who adopted 15 special needs children were Catholic (they ended up with 40). When they prayed, they ended with the Sign of the Cross. God Bless her!
While you sarcastically write “hate is so protestant” you slam Catholics. Are you Catholic? If not I can understand it. But I can tell you that if I were to stand behind anyone, it WOULD be the Catholics. We continue to do tons of Charity work around the world. Mother Teresa and her sisters are good examples. Some priests and nuns go where no one else will. My church supports one in Ukraine, one in Downtown Detroit and two schools in depressed parts of MI. We have families who are hitting 20 and 25th wedding aniversaries with more than 5 kids. Maybe the examples shown to you of good Catholics are few, but there are many out there.
And there is no need to think that I don’t like or are predjuduced against Protestants. I’m married to one.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
N
netmilsmom
Guest
I’m sorry, I just read this post, you are Catholic.
Kathie, when you use " Hate is so Protestant: leading an exemplary is Catholic" you are showing a general distain for Catholics.
Is that your intent?
And really, all laws control people’s lives. For the general good of society. Prostitution is basically a victimless crime, so is drug use. Neither of which should be going on near a school.
H
harinkj
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Protestants such as Pat Robertson wanting to have the president of another country killed is an example of hate. The Ku Klux Klan was not a Catholic organization, in fact it preached hate against Catholics. There were a lot of protestants in it. Of course not all protestants are hateful.
Actually there is a young married man where I work who is against abortion and he has one or two adopted children. And he is a protestant. This is wonderful. I would not disagree with you on this.
There is no distain for Catholics. Why would saying that the Church teaches us to lead good lives be denigrating to the Church? That is why we have saints. So we can model our lives after them.
Protestants such as Pat Robertson wanting to have the president of another country killed is an example of hate. The Ku Klux Klan was not a Catholic organization, in fact it preached hate against Catholics. There were a lot of protestants in it. Of course not all protestants are hateful.
Actually there is a young married man where I work who is against abortion and he has one or two adopted children. And he is a protestant. This is wonderful. I would not disagree with you on this.
- Kathie :bowdown:
N
netmilsmom
Guest
You’re not really judging most Protestants on a stupid statement made by some preacher wacko on tv, are you?
Anyone who walks with Christ, Catholic or Protestant, should not be slammed. Generalizations are never good.
H
harinkj
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Your examples on charity are good.
Once I read that there were about 600,000 homeless people in the United States and that there are about 300,000 churches. It is sad that we are fighting the political battles, like the one posed with this thread’s question on the California bill, instead of helping the homeless people. It is only two people per church. Now it is true that many don’t want to go to shelters or don’t want jobs, et cetera. Maybe it is because there are too many people and that drives up housing costs. And just giving money is no good. But while we spend a great effort fighting bills such as California AB 849 (AB = Assembly Bill, California calls its lower house the Assebly) we still have problems with poverty.
Rather than making same gender marriage illegal (AB 849), or making abortion illegal, I think that we should hope people would not want abortions in the first place. Actually we should want people to not get pregnant in the first place unless they want the baby. They should stay single.
As an aside: it is amazing how many people don’t realize that birth control pills often work by killing a fertilized egg. They say take the pill, don’t abort. :whacky:
What if science shows that people actually are born gay or lesbian? We can’t say God would not do that. There are hermaphrodites that are born: Did God make a mistake with those people? There are many strange things out there in the world.
I would agree with you that handouts are not the answer. And as a country, we may not even be asking the right questions, much less getting the right answers.
I guess my own feelings are that we have become a way too material society. Way too material. Our money says, “In God We Trust” on it. Sadly, what most people think is that the dollar is the god that they put all of their trust into. :tsktsk: I think that if half of us Catholics lived lives of Saints, we would do so much more for the country than all fo the political activites on Supreme Court justices et cetera.
Kathie :bowdown:
Actually the question of this thread is very political.
Your examples on charity are good.
Once I read that there were about 600,000 homeless people in the United States and that there are about 300,000 churches. It is sad that we are fighting the political battles, like the one posed with this thread’s question on the California bill, instead of helping the homeless people. It is only two people per church. Now it is true that many don’t want to go to shelters or don’t want jobs, et cetera. Maybe it is because there are too many people and that drives up housing costs. And just giving money is no good. But while we spend a great effort fighting bills such as California AB 849 (AB = Assembly Bill, California calls its lower house the Assebly) we still have problems with poverty.
Rather than making same gender marriage illegal (AB 849), or making abortion illegal, I think that we should hope people would not want abortions in the first place. Actually we should want people to not get pregnant in the first place unless they want the baby. They should stay single.
As an aside: it is amazing how many people don’t realize that birth control pills often work by killing a fertilized egg. They say take the pill, don’t abort. :whacky:
What if science shows that people actually are born gay or lesbian? We can’t say God would not do that. There are hermaphrodites that are born: Did God make a mistake with those people? There are many strange things out there in the world.
I would agree with you that handouts are not the answer. And as a country, we may not even be asking the right questions, much less getting the right answers.
I guess my own feelings are that we have become a way too material society. Way too material. Our money says, “In God We Trust” on it. Sadly, what most people think is that the dollar is the god that they put all of their trust into. :tsktsk: I think that if half of us Catholics lived lives of Saints, we would do so much more for the country than all fo the political activites on Supreme Court justices et cetera.
Kathie :bowdown:
N
netmilsmom
Guest
That’s funny, because we have a program in our area called MCRest. Our churches help the homeless on a rotating basis (Catholic and Protestant together) with showers, food and a place to sleep.
BTW, don’t get on Americans for “Too many people” . Our ranks are dwindling, except by immigration.
Everyone is born selfish, we train our children not to be.
Pedophiles are said to be born that way, should we give them permission to “Go for it”?
Perhaps choosing a celebate life would be good for those with a same sex attraction.
That’s what I told my sister after she “Came out”. She went through two husbands and shunned three (adult-Thank God) children for it.
Rather than living in sin, why not join an order and give back to sociey?
H
harinkj
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
My grandfather was a Free Methodist minister. and my mom was not a Catholic. I guess Free Methodists were very strict. My Dad was a Catholic but stopped when he was 17. Hence my parents did not want us brought up in such a situation. They really didn’t rebel. They just wanted a different life.
We only went to Catholic school and were baptized when I was in the 5th grade. Berfore that we never went to church. When my sisters and I were misbehaving, our mother would say, " You little heathens …" So I guess that is it: I was a heathen before Catholic school.
Well two TV preachers and a few others, but your are correct I was making a very unwarrented generalization. It just sounded like a great sound bite. And as we know sound bites always bite one back.
My grandfather was a Free Methodist minister. and my mom was not a Catholic. I guess Free Methodists were very strict. My Dad was a Catholic but stopped when he was 17. Hence my parents did not want us brought up in such a situation. They really didn’t rebel. They just wanted a different life.
We only went to Catholic school and were baptized when I was in the 5th grade. Berfore that we never went to church. When my sisters and I were misbehaving, our mother would say, " You little heathens …" So I guess that is it: I was a heathen before Catholic school.
- Kathie :bowdown:
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Oh! I call my hubby that when we are kidding around.
Luckily, he knows I’m not serious.
H
harinkj
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
The housing prices are up because of high demand and one reason is because there are way too many immigrants- legal and illegal. If we were not so materialistic we would not need the cheap labor they bring. I also wonder how many good Catholic families would have more children if there were not the pressures of too many immigrants driving up costs of housing. In my years of working, the men who never got rattled under pressure were the ones who had 5 to 10 kids. These guys were always so calm when all trouble broke loose at work on a project.
Your Church program sounds great. It would be great if most of the other 300,00 did the same.
The housing prices are up because of high demand and one reason is because there are way too many immigrants- legal and illegal. If we were not so materialistic we would not need the cheap labor they bring. I also wonder how many good Catholic families would have more children if there were not the pressures of too many immigrants driving up costs of housing. In my years of working, the men who never got rattled under pressure were the ones who had 5 to 10 kids. These guys were always so calm when all trouble broke loose at work on a project.
- kathie :bowdown:
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Isn’t that the truth!
Moms too. One never realizes that older kids take care of younger ones until you get over four kids!
G
GloriaPatri4
Guest
Update on AB 849: I received this e-mail yesterday. It looks like the California Catholic Conference are taking positive steps is opposing this bill. Hopefully our bishop will take more proactive steps by having our diocesan priest speak out against this.
**
Please forward and distribute to all.
Encouraging follow-up on the Homosexual Marriage ActAB** 849**
Tuesday, August 30, 2005
Dear friends,
We ask your help in order to defeat this bill. First, we request your prayers, and then your works of mercy.
Our California Catholic Conference (Committee on Legislation and Public Policy of which is headed up by Cardinal Roger Mahony and Archbishop William Levada) finally issued an alert to oppose this legislation on Friday, August 26, 2005. Oddly, the “Alert” was sent out just*** one day after*** an email had been cc to Pope Benedict XVI, letting him know that no information had yet been conveyed to Catholics by our bishop on this bill. (We copied this email to you on Friday.) We can’t help but wonder whether or not this was “just a coincidence”. (If you would like a copy of that email, please email us at massabuse@socal.rr.com ) Because, as of today, **this is the ONLY document created by our Conference **and posted on their website since this legislation has been in our State Assembly, beginning in December of 2004, (originally as AB 19) over 9 months ago.
http://cacatholic.org/h/al/al50826-ab849.htmlThis alert was distributed by the Conference to all diocesan bishops on the same day, Friday, August 26, 2005, and distributed to all pastors from Diocese of Orange Bishops’ office within the last 36 hours. **BUT>>>>>NO LETTER was sent to the pastors by our bishops instructing them what to do with it, **per Maryanne (one of the Bishops’ secretaries answering Bishop Soto’s telephone). **Another problem with the **“Alert” from the Conference is that it has no telephone numbers to reach assembly members, (hopefully just an oversight by our CCC Legislative Committee) - the flyer below does.
So,
Pastors and priests: we implore you to stand with our pope, our church and our bishops and speak out from the pulpit against AB 849 this weekend. We also ask you to make this flyer available to your parishioners so that they may help defeat this bill. The Magisterium has already spoken. ***“Clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.” ***From “Considerations Regarding Proposals…” promulgated by the Sacred Congregation and Pope John Paul II. Vatican web site vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Teachers and lay people: ***Especially ***if you have not yet heard anything from the pulpit at your parish, we ask you take the responsibility to print this document, take it to your priests and pastors (or email it to them) within the next 2 days and ask them to speak about this from the pulpit and make this flyer available to all parishioners in your parish this weekend. Please also forward this email and copy and distribute the flyer below to friends and heads of ministries at mass this weekend.
Please also call Bishops Brown, Soto and Luong (714-282-3000) and request that they speak against this bill publicly, and request that they send a letter to pastors instructing them to speak publicly, (at this weekend’s Sunday Masses) against AB 849.
We thank you for your work.
May God bless you and your families.
The Mass Abuse Staff
**
**
Please forward and distribute to all.
Encouraging follow-up on the Homosexual Marriage ActAB** 849**
Tuesday, August 30, 2005
Dear friends,
We ask your help in order to defeat this bill. First, we request your prayers, and then your works of mercy.
Our California Catholic Conference (Committee on Legislation and Public Policy of which is headed up by Cardinal Roger Mahony and Archbishop William Levada) finally issued an alert to oppose this legislation on Friday, August 26, 2005. Oddly, the “Alert” was sent out just*** one day after*** an email had been cc to Pope Benedict XVI, letting him know that no information had yet been conveyed to Catholics by our bishop on this bill. (We copied this email to you on Friday.) We can’t help but wonder whether or not this was “just a coincidence”. (If you would like a copy of that email, please email us at massabuse@socal.rr.com ) Because, as of today, **this is the ONLY document created by our Conference **and posted on their website since this legislation has been in our State Assembly, beginning in December of 2004, (originally as AB 19) over 9 months ago.
http://cacatholic.org/h/al/al50826-ab849.htmlThis alert was distributed by the Conference to all diocesan bishops on the same day, Friday, August 26, 2005, and distributed to all pastors from Diocese of Orange Bishops’ office within the last 36 hours. **BUT>>>>>NO LETTER was sent to the pastors by our bishops instructing them what to do with it, **per Maryanne (one of the Bishops’ secretaries answering Bishop Soto’s telephone). **Another problem with the **“Alert” from the Conference is that it has no telephone numbers to reach assembly members, (hopefully just an oversight by our CCC Legislative Committee) - the flyer below does.
So,
Pastors and priests: we implore you to stand with our pope, our church and our bishops and speak out from the pulpit against AB 849 this weekend. We also ask you to make this flyer available to your parishioners so that they may help defeat this bill. The Magisterium has already spoken. ***“Clear and emphatic opposition is a duty.” ***From “Considerations Regarding Proposals…” promulgated by the Sacred Congregation and Pope John Paul II. Vatican web site vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Teachers and lay people: ***Especially ***if you have not yet heard anything from the pulpit at your parish, we ask you take the responsibility to print this document, take it to your priests and pastors (or email it to them) within the next 2 days and ask them to speak about this from the pulpit and make this flyer available to all parishioners in your parish this weekend. Please also forward this email and copy and distribute the flyer below to friends and heads of ministries at mass this weekend.
Please also call Bishops Brown, Soto and Luong (714-282-3000) and request that they speak against this bill publicly, and request that they send a letter to pastors instructing them to speak publicly, (at this weekend’s Sunday Masses) against AB 849.
We thank you for your work.
May God bless you and your families.
The Mass Abuse Staff
**
- Status