Orange Marches

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More rubbing Catholics noses in it, no it’s not a disgrace, the City hall is for everybody, not just so-called loyalists, Some Catholic nationalists are affiliated to the Irish Republic & the Tricolour.

As per the Good Friday agreement I now have an Irish passport which I was able to obtain in the north of Ireland, before we had to go to Dublin, that’s progress for me, I have no intention of getting a UK passport.
There is more than one tradition here now with all the European immigrants, I don’t accept the Union Jack as my flag, it’s the Tricolour, which coincidently means peace between the orange & green, if only !
If you support the Good Friday Agreement, as you lead me to think you might, then you accept that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and that therefore by implication its flag is the Union Flag, until the majority decide otherwise.
 
If you support the Good Friday Agreement, as you lead me to think you might, then you accept that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and that therefore by implication its flag is the Union Flag, until the majority decide otherwise.
I don’t know anyone who supports every aspect of the Good Friday Agreement, it’s a start, we don’t want people to stop marching, but the economy suffers here every-time with hotel bookings cancelled etc; towns closed down, I had to take a detour to get home the other day, poor me as you say.

I don’t know any other country in the world that has a season of marches, marching through a town which is neutral is fine, but blatantly marching up catholic neighbourhoods street playing inflammatory tunes is asking for trouble.
Plus they put up flags all over this neutral territory even though they don’t represent the people shopping in these areas.
They were back at it in the Ardoyne area of Belfast playing orange tunes outside a catholic church, if that isn’t inflaming the situation then I don’t know what is, unless some are ok with this.

Oh and NO ! I don’t accept N’Ireland as part of the UK and never will with my dying breath !
 
I don’t know anyone who supports every aspect of the Good Friday Agreement, it’s a start, we don’t want people to stop marching, but the economy suffers here every-time with hotel bookings cancelled etc; towns closed down, I had to take a detour to get home the other day, poor me as you say.

I don’t know any other country in the world that has a season of marches, marching through a town which is neutral is fine, but blatantly marching up catholic neighbourhoods street playing inflammatory tunes is asking for trouble.
Plus they put up flags all over this neutral territory even though they don’t represent the people shopping in these areas.
They were back at it in the Ardoyne area of Belfast playing orange tunes outside a catholic church, if that isn’t inflaming the situation then I don’t know what is, unless some are ok with this.

Oh and NO ! I don’t accept N’Ireland as part of the UK and never will with my dying breath !
I agree with almost all of that. Up to your last line! And that, too, in a way: I totally accept the legitimacy of the sentiment behind what you say. We both know what the ins and outs of that are, and if the majority in NI agreed with you (yes, yes, I know the arguments about how NI was formed and it being essentially a gerrymandered constituency etc etc, but we are where we are, and if the majority in NI agreed with you) I’d be very happy – or at least I would be once the terms of the transfer had been amicably sorted, which as you know would not be easy. Nothing is easy in Northern Ireland. Meanwhile it behoves everyone – especially those who love their neighbours as themselves – to try to calm things rather than talk them up. I’ve no doubt you agree. And the GF agreement, and supporting its terms (even those which allow the Union flag to fly) is the best hope.
 
Perhaps another referendum is due. The Good Friday Agreement provides that Northern Ireland shall remain part of the UK til the peoples of Northern ireland and the Irish Republic determine otherwise. The only way to discover what they want is a referendum. I suspect at the time a lot of people voted in favour of the agreement to bring an end to the terrorism. May be now there has been comparative peace for 15 years it could be a suitable time to ask this question again.
 
Perhaps another referendum is due. The Good Friday Agreement provides that Northern Ireland shall remain part of the UK til the peoples of Northern ireland and the Irish Republic determine otherwise. The only way to discover what they want is a referendum. I suspect at the time a lot of people voted in favour of the agreement to bring an end to the terrorism. May be now there has been comparative peace for 15 years it could be a suitable time to ask this question again.
Maybe. Is this page available to you where you are?

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21345997

I suspect a referendum at present would not help, but rather would be the occasion for further attempts by those who like trouble to organise trouble. But you may be right. At present there is no keenness for a referendum that I can detect. As usual most people would prefer peace, a job, somewhere decent to live, a decent education and a decent life for their kids. At some time no doubt another referendum would be useful (although you saw how overwhelming the pro-Good Friday vote was in 1998). But you may be right.
 
why don’t they fly both flags there to represent ireland and the uk we fly the flag of england
and the union flag.🤷
 
I come from Irish Protestant stock. Once upon a time I worked with an Irish Catholic. Every year on the Twelfth, I would ceremonially march through his office while he threw wads of paper at me. We’d laugh and go get beers together after work.

We worked for an Englishman. Whenever a disagreement would come up, I would remind this Irish Catholic colleague of mine that if this came to blows, I would defend our boss for, “King, country, and the supremacy of the Reformed religion.” We’d laugh and go get beers together after work.

I long for the day when we can all just laugh about this stuff and get beers together after work, but we aren’t there yet. The wounds, emotional and in some cases physical, are still too fresh. Until we are there, I think that to persist in re-opening those wounds year after year is just plain wrong.

I don’t know how long it will take us to get there, but I do know the only hope we have of healing those wounds: Christ. Let us all pray, protestant and catholic, irish and scottish, that His grace will, by the power of His Holy Spirit, awaken a spirit of true Christian brotherhood in the region. Unless and until we do that, nothing else will matter and once we achieve that, all the other issues will take care of themselves.
 
What a shame this silly stuff should follow BeProfOSX’s moving post.
 
I’ve no doubt you agree. And the GF agreement, and supporting its terms (even those which allow the Union flag to fly) is the best hope.
We get along fine, (mostly) but the marching season knocks everything back, it’s been like this since I can remember, 323 years since the Battle of the Boyne, they need to get over it.

The marching season is the powder-keg which needs to be sorted, talking 3 days before a parade was a joke.

Derry City had riots in the 1990’s, then the powers that be decided hey ! we need to talk to each-other, so far Derry’s marches have passed off peacefully, but don’t hold your breath.
 
From what I remember the KKK was formed based on its hatred of Catholicism/Catholics.
They were founded on the presumption of white supremacy. Their hatred of blacks is their “cornerstone” belief. The hatred of Jews stems from the belief that the Jews killed Christ. The hatred of Catholics comes from the presumption that Catholics give their loyalty to a foreign power (the Pope); NOT the United States.

The issues in Northern Ireland aren’t going to go away until the vast majority of Northern Irish want them to.

Is this what Christ would want? I don’t think so. The acts of these Orangemen are a disgrace. If they want to show the world that they are better than Catholics, they certainly aren’t proving it by provoking violence, are they?

I wonder if the major players in all this have ever read John 13:34-35… “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
 
You obviously have your own sense of the word ‘colonialist’ because nothing I have said comes from a colonialist outlook as I understand the word; in my understanding of the word I am an anticolonialist. But I do think it is silly to label as ‘occupiers’ a community that has been in Ireland for more than 400 years. And if it is not silly it is most certainly unhelpful.
 
Let me make a last attempt to put this in place.

For centuries conflict has raged across these islands. Great Britain being the larger, more populous and wealthier, she has been free to rampage through Ireland, stealing, killing and assaulting culture. If I could find justification or mitigation in any of this it would not be worth raising, such has been the historical record.

In the 19th century and beyond, people of liberal persuasion in both islands attempted to put relations on a freer footing; they were defeated in large part by the bigotry, self-interest, and eventually treason of elements of the British Right.

In the passage that makes me particularly unhappy, Great Britain turned a blind eye after the Second World War to the consolidation of a discriminatory Unionist Protestant society in which Catholics were treated as second-class citizens, last in the queue for jobs and housing. I say this particularly disturbs me because this was in my lifetime, not some unaccountable period in the past, and it was during a time when Britain purported to be leading the world in promoting the declarations of human rights in the United Nations and Council of Europe.

As violence surged again from the 70s onwards, I would be very surprised if the special forces and intelligence services of the UK did not engage in activities that I would be ashamed of.

You and I know that sins were, as you say, committed on both sides, on all sides, and no doubt still are.

But, friend, here we are, where we are. The people of Northern Ireland and of the Republic have spoken: they want – Catholics and Protestants – the institutions of the GF Agreement given a chance. Indeed, it is our best hope. It may be our only hope. Provocative parades damage that hope. So do posts which seem to attempt to prolong the vilification of some rather than help the process of healing.
 
why don’t they fly both flags there to represent ireland and the uk we fly the flag of england
and the union flag.🤷
Yep, quite right. But you’re trying to use common sense, aren’t you? In England both the St George’s flag and the Union Flag are our flags. To Unionists the Irish tricolour is the flag of a foreign country, and they don’t want the flag of a foreign country given equality with their own flag. Yeah, yeah, I know. But nothing is easy in Northern Ireland.
 
What a shame this silly stuff should follow BeProfOSX’s moving post.
There is nothing in (name removed by moderator)'s post that is ‘silly’. Being of Irish stock myself, I stand with my ancestors in opposing Empiric oppression. The Irish are looked upon in Britian as southerners are looked upon in the US: dumb, illiterate, backwards, at best objects of parody, at worst dangerous.
We all cling to our Bibles and guns so we have to be watched.
 
There is nothing in (name removed by moderator)'s post that is ‘silly’. Being of Irish stock myself, I stand with my ancestors in opposing Empiric oppression. The Irish are looked upon in Britian as southerners are looked upon in the US: dumb, illiterate, backwards, at best objects of parody, at worst dangerous.
We all cling to our Bibles and guns so we have to be watched.
I’m not in a position to judge how Southerners may be regarded in the United States, although I think I know something of how the “Empiric oppression” of the United States affected the indigenous population of North America. But I know that what you say about how the Irish are regarded in Britain is nonsense. Even as a sweeping generalisation it is … well, silly.

And, I would stress again, unhelpful.
 
I’m not in a position to judge how Southerners may be regarded in the United States, although I think I know something of how the “Empiric oppression” of the United States affected the indigenous population of North America.
Then we’re on the same page. 😉
 
With that I agree, but they weren’t really English. They were Scots. That is where the term ScotsIrish comes from.

The English were mostly Anglican, but the Scots are mostly Presbyterian.

Ian Paisley is a ScotsIrish Presbyterian preacher.
They were Lowland Scots, the Highland Scots had moved into the Pict areas (what’s now Scotland) in the 600’s AD. :shamrock2::irish1:
 
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