Orans Position of Hands

  • Thread starter Thread starter Figment713
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Figment713

Guest
(I know, I know, I’m just full of them).

It seems at my church that during the Our Father, about 1/3 of the congregation (mostly the younger folks) stand around with their hands upturned. What is THAT all about?
 
It’s a prayerful posture showing respect and awe for God, and acknowledging Him as the heavenly Father and offering prayers to Him on His throne.

cheddar
 
40.png
Figment713:
It seems at my church that during the Our Father, about 1/3 of the congregation (mostly the younger folks) stand around with their hands upturned. What is THAT all about?
Click to expand...
If you do a search on this under “Orans” you will see many threads on this.

It is a priestly gesture in the liturgy. The Vatican has never directed this position for the laity in the mass. Many Bishops are silent some encourage it. Check with your diocese before performing or encouraging this innovation.
 
It’s not in the GIRM, so don’t do it. I know we always bring up this point, but if we’re going to start doing thing that aren’t in the GIRM just because we feel like it, why not start juggling. Or making hand-puppet gestures to my neighbor during mass. Get the point?
 
Once again, thanks to those who took the time to respond to my question.

And thanks also to the moderator who took the time to re-title the thread. (I didn’t title it this way, because I didn’t know what it was about, much less what it was called!)

And, fear not, Jabronie, it’s not something I am likely to start doing at all. I was just totally wondering about those who were doing it.
 
40.png
Figment713:
Once again, thanks to those who took the time to respond to my question.

And thanks also to the moderator who took the time to re-title the thread. (I didn’t title it this way, because I didn’t know what it was about, much less what it was called!)

And, fear not, Jabronie, it’s not something I am likely to start doing at all. I was just totally wondering about those who were doing it.
Click to expand...
I forgot to say, sorry if I sounded kind of harsh. I just get a little worked up over this (and the whole hand-holding issue) It’s such a minor thing; I shouldn’t let it bother me as much as it does…
 
Here in the Philippines at Mass everyone either holds hands or holds their arms out with hands upturned.
Both are allowed and I don’t see what the problem is with that.
 
40.png
thistle:
Here in the Philippines at Mass everyone either holds hands or holds their arms out with hands upturned.
Both are allowed and I don’t see what the problem is with that.
Click to expand...
There is no problem with it, as long as your Bishop has approved it.
Yours has…
"There’s is no prohibition on the holding of hands during the singing of the Our Father during the Mass. This is the clarification being made by Fr. Anscar Chupungco, OSB, executive secretary of the Commission on Liturgy of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines.
Code: 
              Fr. Chupungco said that there has been no directive from the bishops that bans this practice among priests and laypeople during the celebration of the Mass. The statement coming out of the 20 th National Meeting of Diocesan Directors of Liturgy made no mention of such prohibition. While it suggested that certain “indecorous movements” must be "eliminated” these did not refer to “holding hands” during the singing of the “Our Father.”

              Fr. Chupungco issued the clarification on behalf of Bishop Romulo Valles, chairman of the Episcopal Commission on Liturgy"
However, some Bishops, such as in St. Louis, have stated that this is not appropriate.
One must check with your own Bishop.
 
They are signaling that the Colts just scored another touchdown 🙂

Figment713 said:
(I know, I know, I’m just full of them).

It seems at my church that during the Our Father, about 1/3 of the congregation (mostly the younger folks) stand around with their hands upturned. What is THAT all about?
Click to expand...
 
Both may be allowed…but that doesn’t make it proper…and a Bishop doesn’t have the authority to grant Churches the right to commit liturgical abuses…The fact remains it is not in the GIRM…it is not permitted. It is a recent innovation added to the Mass…the problem is that it has been ignored by the Episcopate for so long that people have taken their silence to mean it is ok to do it…but it is not.

With that said though…we are really beating a dead horse to death…I could honestly care less what posture someone is in when they pray the Our Father…I am just happy they are at Mass and worshipping and loving God to the best of their abilities…afterall, isn’t that what it is all about? I would rather see a whole church full of people in the Orans Posture as opposed to an empty Church.
40.png
thistle:
Here in the Philippines at Mass everyone either holds hands or holds their arms out with hands upturned.
Both are allowed and I don’t see what the problem is with that.
Click to expand...
 
40.png
dumspirospero:
Both may be allowed…but that doesn’t make it proper…and a Bishop doesn’t have the authority to grant Churches the right to commit liturgical abuses…The fact remains it is not in the GIRM…it is not permitted. It is a recent innovation added to the Mass…the problem is that it has been ignored by the Episcopate for so long that people have taken their silence to mean it is ok to do it…but it is not.

With that said though…we are really beating a dead horse to death…I could honestly care less what posture someone is in when they pray the Our Father…I am just happy they are at Mass and worshipping and loving God to the best of their abilities…afterall, isn’t that what it is all about? I would rather see a whole church full of people in the Orans Posture as opposed to an empty Church.
Click to expand...
Your view that holding hands is not allowed or at least not proper does not seem to be borne out by what other posters in this and other threads have said on the subject. Why are you correct and the others wrong? If there is no prohibition then by default it must be allowed!
On a related issue, I am 57 but only converted to the Catholic faith about 14 years ago so for me holding hands or arms outstretched with hands turned upwards has been the only way I have seen the The Lord’s Prayer sung at Mass. This was the case in the UK, Europe and Asia where I have attended Masses.
What was done in the past with the hands?
 
40.png
thistle:
Your view that holding hands is not allowed or at least not proper does not seem to be borne out by what other posters in this and other threads have said on the subject. Why are you correct and the others wrong? If there is no prohibition then by default it must be allowed!
On a related issue, I am 57 but only converted to the Catholic faith about 14 years ago so for me holding hands or arms outstretched with hands turned upwards has been the only way I have seen the The Lord’s Prayer sung at Mass. This was the case in the UK, Europe and Asia where I have attended Masses.
What was done in the past with the hands?
Click to expand...
The holding of hands came in from the Protestant churches, and before VII people folded their hands. Also, the GIRM does not saying anything about the laity and the Orans postion, but it also does not say anything about the prohibition of standing on your head during mass. So just because the GIRM doesn’t say it does not mean we can do it.
 
40.png
SummaTheo:
The holding of hands came in from the Protestant churches, and before VII people folded their hands. Also, the GIRM does not saying anything about the laity and the Orans postion, but it also does not say anything about the prohibition of **standing on your head ** during mass. So just because the GIRM doesn’t say it does not mean we can do it.
Click to expand...
Now you are being ridiculous.

Exactly what is your problem with holding hands or holding hands out upturned. Why is that less respectful than folding your hands?? By the way I was a Methodist (before becoming a Catholic) and we never held hands during the Lord’s prayer so I don’t know what Protestant group you think it came from.
 
40.png
thistle:
Now you are being ridiculous.

Exactly what is your problem with holding hands or holding hands out upturned. Why is that less respectful than folding your hands?? By the way I was a Methodist (before becoming a Catholic) and we never held hands during the Lord’s prayer so I don’t know what Protestant group you think it came from.
Click to expand...
I don’t have too big of a problem with Orans position (maybe just because I don’t see it too often) but holding hands I do. Holding hands is what people do to give a sign of their “communion.” Good idea wrong method. We only have communion with each other through the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinty of our Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Communion not because we hold hands.

The Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy expressed a strong preference for the orans gesture over the holding of hands, since the focus of the Lord’s Prayer is a prayer to the Father and not primarily an expression of community and fellowship.

catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=64&art_id=27749
 
40.png
thistle:
Now you are being ridiculous.

Exactly what is your problem with holding hands or holding hands out upturned. Why is that less respectful than folding your hands?? By the way I was a Methodist (before becoming a Catholic) and we never held hands during the Lord’s prayer so I don’t know what Protestant group you think it came from.
Click to expand...
There are 1200 Protestant denominations. Just because the Methodists did not do it, does not mean that Protestants do not. My In-laws are Presbyterian, they hold hands when they pray, as do their children who are Chuch of Christ and non-denominational Fundamentalist.

As for the idea that standing on your head is ridculous, how about swaying, how about lay prostrate or how about miming the Our Father. None of these are ridiculous. Yet none are appropriate either.
 
Will the strong feelings on this ever go away?
I agree, if your Bishop says it’s ok, then you are being obedient if you choose to raise your hands or even hold hands

. My family holds hands with each other, if my neigbor in the pew offers her hand to me I take it. If she doesn’t, I do not approach her.

The thing that is getting old around here is deciding everything someone dislikes is Protestant.

First of all, not all Protestant things are bad. Where do we get the idea they are?

Secondly, I am a convert although many years ago and I attended many Protestant Churches and never saw anyone hold hands or lift their hands. The only place anyone saw people with their hands lifted was in the Sacramental Churches and in fact Jewish worship.

The thing is, there are so many things that have to do with your Salvation to be concerned about, so many ways you and I need to pray and worship the Lord and to be frank, so little time here on earth to do it, why worry what your neighbor is doing?

If you have a neighbor who is putting their salvation in danger, or leading their kids astray (often with lack of teachinga and discipline) and doing other things that are really serious, you need to be concerned for them as a member of a Parish family. You need to pray for them and counsel them.

However, I hear so many folks here who want certain kinds of Masses. Mostly, here, folks who enjoy Latin Masses. Why don’t you make friends with the very folks you are talking about, and get them to go with you to Father or your Bishop and request it.

We work best when we work together in respect and love as a Catholic family.
 
40.png
robertaf:
The thing that is getting old around here is deciding everything someone dislikes is Protestant.

.
Click to expand...
It is getting old… coming up on 500 years old.

But there is some truth in that the changes in the Liturgy resulted in copying the Protestant liturgy:

Protestant:
1] vernacular 2]all is audible 3] three readings 4] using lay readers 5] meal served on a table facing people 6] less (or no) kneeling 7] communion in the hand 8] communion under two species 9] less or no reference to the Real Presence

Catholic (used to be):
1] Latin - official language of the Church 2] much of what the priest prayed was silent or inaudible 3] two readings 4] NO lay readers 5] sacrifice facing east, priest leading the people to God 6] much kneeling 7] communion on the tongue 8] one species or intinction 9] continual reference to the Real Presence
 
As always…another great and insightful post MrS 👍
40.png
MrS:
It is getting old… coming up on 500 years old.

But there is some truth in that the changes in the Liturgy resulted in copying the Protestant liturgy:

Protestant:
1] vernacular 2]all is audible 3] three readings 4] using lay readers 5] meal served on a table facing people 6] less (or no) kneeling 7] communion in the hand 8] communion under two species 9] less or no reference to the Real Presence

Catholic (used to be):
1] Latin - official language of the Church 2] much of what the priest prayed was silent or inaudible 3] two readings 4] NO lay readers 5] sacrifice facing east, priest leading the people to God 6] much kneeling 7] communion on the tongue 8] one species or intinction 9] continual reference to the Real Presence
Click to expand...
 
40.png
cheddarsox:
It’s a prayerful posture showing respect and awe for God, and acknowledging Him as the heavenly Father and offering prayers to Him on His throne.

cheddar
Click to expand...
It is somthing that should not be done. Ones hands should be clasped in prayer during the Our Father.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top