Orans Position of Hands

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MrS:
It is getting old… coming up on 500 years old.

But there is some truth in that the changes in the Liturgy resulted in copying the Protestant liturgy:

Protestant:
1] vernacular 2]all is audible 3] three readings 4] using lay readers 5] meal served on a table facing people 6] less (or no) kneeling 7] communion in the hand 8] communion under two species 9] less or no reference to the Real Presence

Catholic (used to be):
1] Latin - official language of the Church 2] much of what the priest prayed was silent or inaudible 3] two readings 4] NO lay readers 5] sacrifice facing east, priest leading the people to God 6] much kneeling 7] communion on the tongue 8] one species or intinction 9] continual reference to the Real Presence
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And your point is?

Every point you attribute (questionably) to the Protestants is bad?
I hear more references to the Real Presence now than I every did in the Pre VaticanII Church.
Which Protestant Church used 3 readings?
Do you mean that in the pre VatII Church nothing was audible?
Where did you live and go to Church? I could hear everything, although without a missal couldn’t understand everything.
 
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robertaf:
First of all, not all Protestant things are bad. Where do we get the idea they are?
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Not all Slovakian things are bad. In fact, being in a Slovakian Catholic Church, I see many things that are very nice. But I’m not Slovakian.

In the same way, some Protestant things are not bad, but we are not Protestants. We are Catholic.

If nothing is to be added to liturgy, then we need to leave Protestant things to the Protestants for our masses.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Not all Slovakian things are bad. In fact, being in a Slovakian Catholic Church, I see many things that are very nice. But I’m not Slovakian.

In the same way, some Protestant things are not bad, but we are not Protestants. We are Catholic.

If nothing is to be added to liturgy, then we need to leave Protestant things to the Protestants for our masses.
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Greetings,
I was referring to the post by MrS.
The fact is, it is too late to cry over what he says is Protestant.
" Protestant: 1] vernacular 2]all is audible 3] three readings 4] using lay readers 5] meal served on a table facing people 6] less (or no) kneeling 7] communion in the hand 8] communion under two species 9] less or no reference to the Real Presence"

These things are Catholic and I don’t think we are going to see any changes. Well, I hear lots and lots of referrences to the Real Presence, we have perpetual Adoration and this area has much worship for the Holy Eucharist.
All the rest are part of our Liturgy.
I am still trying to figure what the altar facing East has to do with being Catholic. I think our Priests still lead people to God.

I would like to see more Latin and Pre-Vatican II type Masses, mostly because there are still part of the Body of Christ who want it. I have always said, Holy Mother Church is Big enough for all of us.

Our Parish is extremely diverse. We do have something for everybody, for the most part. I have not heard anyone in the parish asking for Latin Mass but if there were, we would probably go (united) to Father and petition for one.
Please never forget there were abuses back pre-Vat II, as well.
 
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robertaf:
The fact is, it is too late to cry over what he says is Protestant.
" Protestant: 1] vernacular 2]all is audible 3] three readings 4] using lay readers 5] meal served on a table facing people 6] less (or no) kneeling 7] communion in the hand 8] communion under two species 9] less or no reference to the Real Presence"

These things are Catholic and I don’t think we are going to see any changes.
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In the whole 2000+ years of church history, these things are innovations in a blip of time.
God works in mysterious ways. 15 years ago when my mother died, she had given up hope that we would get back to the reverence and devotions.
Now, the young people are bringing it back. In another blip, all that could be gone.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
In the whole 2000+ years of church history, these things are innovations in a blip of time.
God works in mysterious ways. 15 years ago when my mother died, she had given up hope that we would get back to the reverence and devotions.
Now, the young people are bringing it back. In another blip, all that could be gone.
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You are absolutely right. It is all in the hands of God.
I do not know His mind but I would guess and pray that He would provide for all faithful hearted Catholics.
 
The main problem with the laity using the Orans prayer posture is that the GIRM and other liturgical instructions reserve that position for the Priest. In general that is a Priestly gesture and position. The laity should never imitate the preistly actions and should be fulfilling their own. Many priests allow this posture because it is better than the handholding position.

tinyurl.com/bxzjh
 
My problem with the orans (right or wrong, approved or not approved not withstanding) is that most of the laity upturn their hands but their arms are not involved. A lot of people in church look much more like they’re asking “why” than offering prayers.

And don’t get me started on the limpy handshakes during Peace.
 
This big tent catholocism nonsense has to stop. We are not a political party or a sewing group. Being catholic is being unified with the one lord and the one God. The mass is a symphony conducted by the Priest and we all are lead in a specific roles. The music is much less appealing to the sense when the instruments are not in tune or playing the wrong chords.
 
Morning Glory:
And don’t get me started on the limpy handshakes during Peace.
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Limpy handshakes aren’t as bad as the aggressive ones. I had a woman shake my hand so violently last week that she almost ripped my arm off.
As for the original topic, I personally don’t like the orans because I get distracted by all these arms up in the air, and it takes my attention off the Lord and directs it towards the people. To be perfectly honest, that is the reason why I dislike certain Protestant churches. There is so much going on with the congregation that I find it hard to focus on worshipping the Lord. I went to a dedication once at a non-denominational church, and during one of the songs, a woman got up out of her chair and starting dancing around. Others started clapping and swaying to the tune. I found it next to impossible to focus on the Lord with all this action going on around me. Same with the orans position. It’s distracting.
 
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