Orans position

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

For the last time–(I promise ) this is one interpretation. Others disagree.

You follow what you choose, (and I certainly hope you understand the difference betwen Juggling, dogs, BBQing and the Orans position)

It’s an interpertation by one of the men who worked on the GIRM. I think a Bishop who actually worked on it would hold a little more weight than anyone else.
There is a reason why the orans is not mentioned, first being other liturgical documents and second the GIRM doesn’t tell you what you should not do, rather what you should. It is not the form of the document to do say, “Laity should not use the Orans position as it is reserved for the Priest.” In all reality, that the Orans is not stated for laity is glaringly obvious that the laity should not be doing it.

What do dogs, BBQing, Jugging and the Orans position all have in common?
None of them are forbidden in the GIRM. See how silly it can be to depend on a document to list everything NOT allowed?

 

[Searching13]

You brought up all sort of nonsensical things (picking noses was brought up, and you gave a liquid alert–whatever that is)

Please forgive me, if I fail to take you seriously.

You equated Juggling, dogs & BBQing with the Orans positiion.

The USCCB does not forbid the Orans position when mentioned.

Again–you do what you choose.

This is not a major abuse, if indeed it is any abuse.

 

[Searching13]

I know you’re old so I’ll explain it.
This was the question posed to the USCCB
*

Orans

Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in the “Orans” posture during the Lord’s prayer along with the celebrant. Some do this on their own as a private devotional posture while some congregations make it a general practice for their communities.

Is this practice permissible under the current rubrics, either as a private practice not something adopted by a particular parish as a communal gesture?
And the response

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary*

for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.
*
OK so we change the question

Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in the “Juggling, dogs, BBQing” posture during the Lord’s prayer along with the celebrant.

Do you honestly think the response will be the same?

 

[Searching13]

PS as far as

First, I don’t know how the quote gives any answer. Rather it just explains the practice. Also, the USCCB Liturgy Committee is a source that is not credable for an authentic interpretation on anything liturgical. It would be more credable to quote “Catholicism for Dummies” or some other banal resource.

I am off to the USCCB site—I’ll let you know if they even give credence to this sad remark.

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

You brought up all sort of nonsensical things (picking noses was brought up, and you gave a liquid alert–whatever that is)

Please forgive me, if I fail to take you seriously.

Maybe you should hang out here a while longer. You will learn that there is humor intermixed with many of these threads. It was either Dr. Bombay or Fix who made the nose picking statement, I found it funny. A liquid alert is when the author of a post warns people not to take liquid into the mouth before reading it, for fear that the person will have it travel up the nose or sprayed on the keyboard.

You’re new to the whole WWW aren’t you?

You equated Juggling, dogs & BBQing with the Orans positiion.

You bet! None of the above are mentioned in the GIRM therefore by your interpertation, all are allowed. Laying prostrate, using a prayer rug, nor shokeling are mentioned in the GIRM. Yet none of this is done, why the special treatment of the Orans position?

The USCCB does not forbid the Orans position when mentioned.

But the Vatican documents do, so you seem to be stating that if the USCCB does not mention something but the Vatican does, the silence of the USCCB trumps the Vatican? That makes little sense to me.

Again–you do what you choose.

This is not a major abuse, if indeed it is any abuse.

Thank Our Lord and Our Dear Mother, my parish doesn’t do any innovation. I wouldn’t call the Orans an abuse, but rather an innovation in bad taste for the litugy.
It amuses me to have visitors to our parish who suddenly realize this fact. Hands drop immediately.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

First of all, what a wonderful thing it is that you lay prostrate! You have a true understanding of the Blessed Sacrament!

Next, the Orans position is a prayer posture that is NOT for the clergy only. In private prayer, Orans is not a problem. In the Holy Mass it is reserved for the clergy.

Here is an answer for you…
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9903qq.asp

I agree with Netmil(name removed by moderator)…in private, by all means. In the Mass, I think it blurs the distinction between the laity and the priest, who acts in Alter Christi (I’m sure I mispelled that).

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

I know you’re old so I’ll explain it.
This was the question posed to the USCCB

My kids are seven and five! How old do you think I am? How old are you? Maybe I’m giving you too much credit for your years.

Do you honestly think the response will be the same?

It depends on who answered it.

Why are you ignoring Vatican documents? You’re not being rational.

 

[Searching13]

Again, you do what you feel is right.

What bothers me iis some sarcastic humor? is allowed, and thought very funny, while other is rude or offensive.

I thought the nose picking thing was disgusting, and very out of place in this discussion. I am searching.

If the orans position is forbidden to the laity during the Lord’s Prayer, please show me authentic liturgical documentation.

 

[Searching13]

PS You really don’t need to answer my questions, even if you could—they’re hypothetical

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

If the orans position is forbidden to the laity during the Lord’s Prayer, please show me authentic liturgical documentation.

Maybe you missed it. See post #9.

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

PS You really don’t need to answer my questions, even if you could—they’re hypothetical

What questions?
I’m pretty open. Why aren’t you answering any of mine?

 

[Searching13]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

What questions?

OK I’ll try to explain again.

There is absolutely no comparison between the nonsense of which you speak and the Orans position, so please stop using that argument, if you wish to have a serious discussion

The USCCB, which does have authority for posture, has declined to forbid the Orans position.

OK—gotta get

Play nice

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

OK I’ll try to explain again.

There is absolutely no comparison between the nonsense of which you speak and the Orans position, so please stop using that argument, if you wish to have a serious discussion

The USCCB, which does have authority for posture, has declined to forbid the Orans position.

OK—gotta get

Play nice

First, maybe it’s just me but I don’t see a single question there.
However let me state this a different way. The USCCB has not allowed the Orans for laity, the Vatican has stated that it is for the priest. The Vatican has also stated that no posture of the priest is to be used by the laity. Hmmmmmm.
I’m having a serious discussion, you are choosing to ignore facts.

And this is the most important question that you have chosen to duck…
"Laying prostrate, using a prayer rug, nor shokeling are mentioned in the GIRM. Yet none of this is done, why the special treatment of the Orans position? "

 

[Searching13]

Again, You do what you feel is right

 

[Searching13]

"Laying prostrate, using a prayer rug, nor shokeling are mentioned in the GIRM. Yet none of this is done, why the special treatment of the Orans position? "

Asked and answered—
This was specifically asked of the USCCB

(I’ll let you know if I get a response to the disrespect shown here.)

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

Again, You do what you feel is right

I wouldn’t sign up for the debate team if I were you.

I guess it is a good time to remember never to “Lay Pearls before Swine…” Matthew 7,6

 

[netmilsmom]

Searching13:

Asked and answered—
This was specifically asked of the USCCB

(I’ll let you know if I get a response to the disrespect shown here.)

Hey! Here’s a thought!
Why don’t you post the e-mail that you sent to the USCCB so that we can see the answer in context?

 

[mosher]

Searching13:

, the USCCB Liturgy Committee is a source that is not credable for an authentic interpretation on anything liturgical

Are you serious??—Perhaps you should send that remark off to Rome. I think the GIRM does contradict you

(and I think I’ll go with the GIRM)

I am not going to waste my time and yours, quoting the GIRM, which does give much authority to the Bishop (posture is one area specifically mentioned)

Again, please let me know the response when you register your complaint with either the Bishop or the Vatican.

Are you kidding me? Rome is constantly on the case of the USCCB for poor interpretation of the rubrics. A little effort in reading all the times the Liturgy Committee has been abjectly wrong you would have the same view point.

 

[netmilsmom]

mosher:

Are you kidding me? Rome is constantly on the case of the USCCB for poor interpretation of the rubrics. A little effort in reading all the times the Liturgy Committee has been abjectly wrong you would have the same view point.

Did you read, Searching asked the USCCB themselves?
What do you think they are going to say?

 

[mosher]

Searching13:

Again, You do what you feel is right

Action is never a matter of feeling it is a matter of direction my the competant authority. No matter what the USCCB does it is required to receive permission from the Holy See for any modifications in the GIRM or other pertinant rubrics. The Holy See has not given said permission thus no permission exists thus it is a liturgical abuse. If I went about doing what I felt was right all the time I would be 300 lbs and in jail. Rules are there to be followed.