Orans position

[YiSan]

I have a question about proper posture during Mass. I meant to ask this during RCIA class today but I was starving to death and forgot. During Mass, I noticed that some of the parishioners hold their hands out, palms up, during the Lords Prayer. I had read that this is called the Orans Position and that it is reserved for the priest only during Mass. I simply want to do the right thing myself in reverence to the Lord. Could anyone enlighten me on this please? Thank you in advance to anyone who may be able to assist me in this question…

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Not a lot of agreement among Catholics on what to do during the Lord’s Prayer…almost like 3 options at this point it seems. Holding hands, modified Orans (hands much lower than the priest would have them), or hands clasped together in prayer. Basically, there is no official Church stance on what to do during the prayer.

 

[detoutcoeur]

I have a question about proper posture during Mass. I meant to ask this during RCIA class today but I was starving to death and forgot. During Mass, I noticed that some of the parishioners hold their hands out, palms up, during the Lords Prayer. I had read that this is called the Orans Position and that it is reserved for the priest only during Mass. I simply want to do the right thing myself in reverence to the Lord. Could anyone enlighten me on this please? Thank you in advance to anyone who may be able to assist me in this question…

No position is prescribed in the Roman Missal for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/posture-during-the-eucharistic-prayer-and-our-father.cfm

 

[DaveBj]

Technically we’re not supposed to imitate the gestures and hand positions used by the priest. However, I do believe that horse is out of the barn, out of the corral, and had done left the state.

 

[Casilda]

No position is prescribed in the Roman Missal for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.

That said,do what is comfortable for you. Don’t feel you HAVE to hold hands or raise your hands. I clasp my own hands.

 

[pianistclare]

Ditto the “not copying what the priest does”.

Most of these things are the presider’s (celebrant’s) place, not ours.
Pretty silly looking if you ask me.

 

[freshwind]

this question seems to come up often, and i always felt uncomfortable with it… but something stuck me last week at Mass, there were 2 Deacons and a Seminarian assisting the Celebrant … none of them took the orans position, only the priest.

Not sure if correct, but that kind of answered the question for me…

 

[YiSan]

Thank you too all who posted responses. I think that I will simply clasp my hands together (my wife feels the same way).

 

[SteveGC]

I have a question about proper posture during Mass. I meant to ask this during RCIA class today but I was starving to death and forgot. During Mass, I noticed that some of the parishioners hold their hands out, palms up, during the Lords Prayer. I had read that this is called the Orans Position and that it is reserved for the priest only during Mass. I simply want to do the right thing myself in reverence to the Lord. Could anyone enlighten me on this please? Thank you in advance to anyone who may be able to assist me in this question…

One of the better answers to your question is found here. Bottom line, do not assume the orans position.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thank you too all who posted responses. I think that I will simply clasp my hands together (my wife feels the same way).

You may choose the gesture that you prefer and with which you are most comfortable.

 

[Dorothy]

Thank you too all who posted responses. I think that I will simply clasp my hands together (my wife feels the same way).

Me too…

 

[goout]

As with so many things, the question is not about what we are merely allowed to do or are comfortable doing, it is about what we should do.

We shouldn’t merely say “meh, whatever” and throw up our hands (pun intended).
Too much indifferentism in the Church.

That being said, we are not called to be liturgical policemen either.

 

[LiamQ]

That being said, we are not called to be liturgical policemen either.

Catholicism is a fine balancing act between the externals and the internals. Most of us haven’t gotten that balance right yet. And those of us, like me, who like to whine about everything have a nasty habit of minding other people’s business for them.

 

[Fuerza]

I’ve heard arguments both for and against the assumption of the orans posture by the faithful. Ultimately, I just decided not to let it bother me. There are too many other issues with which to be concerned. I simply close my eyes, put my head down and clasp my hands during the Our Father. As long as no one tries to force me to hold hands (I do NOT like to be touched) it’s all good.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

As with so many things, the question is not about what we are merely allowed to do or are comfortable doing, it is about what we should do.

We shouldn’t merely say “meh, whatever” and throw up our hands (pun intended).
Too much indifferentism in the Church.

That being said, we are not called to be liturgical policemen either.

And what should we do? I don’t really think God cares if you hold hands or clasp them together if your intention it to be reverent.

 

[goout]

And what should we do? I don’t really think God cares if you hold hands or clasp them together if your intention it to be reverent.

Right, that’s why I said:

we are not called to be liturgical policemen either.

When people wonder how they should do this n that, where should they look, or who should they ask?
(disclaimer: none of this bothers me a bit, I hold hands but I don’t imitate the priest so…, but I don’t believe you should just do whatever makes you comfortable for comfort’s sake. I think a person should have well informed, intentional, and directed liturgical behavior when possible.)

 

[YiSan]

As with so many things, the question is not about what we are merely allowed to do or are comfortable doing, it is about what we should do.

We shouldn’t merely say “meh, whatever” and throw up our hands (pun intended).
Too much indifferentism in the Church.

That being said, we are not called to be liturgical policemen either.

I don’t mind informing someone about an error they are making (when I know I am on the right path), but I would hate to alienate such a large number of people after just joining the church so recently. At this point, I think that it would be best for me to mention it to the Deacon and see how he recommends that I go forth from here. I am sure that, knowing him, he won’t have any problem instructing all of us on the best/correct posture to use or not to use. If he doesn’t mind me talking to them, I will politely do so. I simply want to do the right thing…

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I don’t mind informing someone about an error they are making (when I know I am on the right path), but I would hate to alienate such a large number of people after just joining the church so recently. At this point, I think that it would be best for me to mention it to the Deacon and see how he recommends that I go forth from here. I am sure that, knowing him, he won’t have any problem instructing all of us on the best/correct posture to use or not to use. If he doesn’t mind me talking to them, I will politely do so. I simply want to do the right thing…

I am at a loss as to why you would do this.

There is no rubric governing the posture of the laity at this moment other than that they should be upstanding.

As the US Conference of Catholic Bishops notes regarding both the posture during the Eucharistic Prayer and the Our Father:
Should people stand or kneel during the Eucharistic Prayer?

*This is answered in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, number 43:

In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.*

Some people hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, while others hold their hands out like the priest. Is there a prescribed posture for the Our Father?

No position is prescribed in the Roman Missal for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/posture-during-the-eucharistic-prayer-and-our-father.cfm

The last I knew – I am a priest of Europe – there was only one diocese in the United States where the Diocesan Bishop initiated particular law on this point, which is of course his right; the Diocesan Bishop is the supreme moderator of the liturgy in his diocese.

How those in the congregation, assisting at Mass, are positioning their hands at the Our Father is of no concern to either the bishop or the priests in my diocese…presuming the laity in question are not using their hands in the moment to strike their fellow parishioners.

As a parish priest, yes I would have found it alienating if someone who had just been welcomed into the parish began attempting to correct my parishioners, least of all on a matter they were quite free to do.

 

[YiSan]

I am at a loss as to why you would do this.

There is no rubric governing the posture of the laity at this moment other than that they should be upstanding.

As the US Conference of Catholic Bishops notes regarding both the posture during the Eucharistic Prayer and the Our Father:
Should people stand or kneel during the Eucharistic Prayer?

*This is answered in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, number 43:

In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.*

Some people hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer, while others hold their hands out like the priest. Is there a prescribed posture for the Our Father?

No position is prescribed in the Roman Missal for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/posture-during-the-eucharistic-prayer-and-our-father.cfm

The last I knew – I am a priest of Europe – there was only one diocese in the United States where the Diocesan Bishop initiated particular law on this point, which is of course his right; the Diocesan Bishop is the supreme moderator of the liturgy in his diocese.

How those in the congregation, assisting at Mass, are positioning their hands at the Our Father is of no concern to either the bishop or the priests in my diocese…presuming the laity in question are not using their hands in the moment to strike their fellow parishioners.

As a parish priest, yes I would have found it alienating if someone who had just been welcomed into the parish began attempting to correct my parishioners, least of all on a matter they were quite free to do.

Why I would do it is due to the slightly confusing document shown in the link below. It actually appears to waffle back and forth in my humble opinion.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/orans_posture.htm

Additionally as I stated, I did NOT want to alienate anyone. I also stated that although I would not want to alienate anyone, IF I was correct, I would speak to them out of a desire to do what is right. I have no ego here, my effort to do the correct thing is completely altruistic and out of a growing love for the Catholic Church!

Additionally, I for one am not concerned whether or not the Roman Missal does or does not state if we should use that posture. It also does not tell me to stand on one foot and put my hands on top of my head either (if you see where I am going with that). The missal I use (Saint Joseph), only states to stand for the our father. It does NOT state that we should use the Orans position. I don’t want to add or take away from the “correct” instructions. I am only concerned as to the correct use of the Orans position. So, to make a long story short. After receiving several wonderful comments from the experienced Catholics here, I am going to take it up with my Deacon and my Priest and see if they can set me on the correct path. As we used to say in the Army, I am not interested in half stepping. I fervently want to do what is correct, not just what I THINK is correct.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Why I would do it is due to the slightly confusing document shown in the link below. It actually appears to waffle back and forth in my humble opinion.

The reason it seems confused is because the document is an opinion piece, written by a lay person who has only a licentiate in theology; it is also not a licentiate in liturgy. He is trying to argue for a specific conclusion that he would like to advance but which cannot really be sustained liturgically.

Additionally, I for one am not concerned whether or not the Roman Missal does or does not state if we should use that posture. It also does not tell me to stand on one foot and put my hands on top of my head either (if you see where I am going with that). The missal I use (Saint Joseph), only states to stand for the our father. It does NOT state that we should use the Orans position. I don’t want to add or take away from the “correct” instructions. I am only concerned as to the correct use of the Orans position. So, to make a long story short. After receiving several wonderful comments from the experienced Catholics here, I am going to take it up with my Deacon and my Priest and see if they can set me on the correct path. As we used to say in the Army, I am not interested in half stepping. I fervently want to do what is correct, not just what I THINK is correct.

If you are not concerned with what the Roman Missal says or does not say, your problem would be solved…since there is then no problem.

The rubrics do not say for the laity to extend hands or not extend hands. The rubrics do not say they can fold their hands or not fold their hands. Because that is a level of specificity beyond the concern of rubrics. Whether you pray with your hands extended, your palms flat against each other, your fingers interlaced or, for that matter, your hands stuck in your pockets, or holding the hand of the person next to you is the decision of the one praying. There are many things rubrics…for the presider, for the deacon, for the other ministers and for those assisting in the congregation…do not indicate.

The Americans, very memorably, needed the intervention of the Holy See a few years ago on the issue of rubrics because some Americans were overaggressive concerning them, trying to compel behaviour that was completely beyond the function of rubrics. At the time, I found it utterly remarkable that such could even happen…but I confess it is clearer to me, after time spent on this forum.

Yes, I would encourage you to speak to your parish priest so that he may explain the actual values involved when it comes to rubrics and their applications…which are not ends unto themselves.