Orans posture prohibited during Lord's Prayer

[pnewton]

Absolutely! If there is ever such a decree, I am sure most
will respect it.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

(I am a hygiene nut, and this is another hand-to-hand thing that drives me nuts.)

I’m a nurse and yes it should drive you nuts. It does me also.

At the weekday Mass, they have everybody get up and form a ring around the altar, holding hands.

I’m not sure how, but I would have to find a way to politely refuse to do that. I have been to parishes where everyone moves into the center aisle to hold hands but did not like it and so have not returned as many other Catholics in our area avoid it also.

In my parish, we hold hands, during the Lord’s Prayer. which really upsets some Catholics in this forum.

Jim

It probably upset the Catholics who no longer attend that parish also. As I said above, we have a parish in our area where at one particular Mass everyone moves into the center and holds hands. Many Catholics avoid it. If that parish is mentioned in a conversation, somehow that particular Mass is brought up.

I also seem to see the whole hand raising during the Our Father to be fading. Many of the people in the parish I attend, who used to raise their hands are now folding them and bowing their heads instead.

Perhaps it is good that this topic is being brought up so frequently.

 

[Herculees]

I believe that simply applies to Latin Rite Mass
as in the Maronite tradition our Mass books
clearly tells the congregation to assume the
orans posture during the Our Father!

 

[Ostiarius]

Here is an excellent article on the subject:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/what-the-orans-posture-means-0

 

[pnewton]

From the article:

The Church has not forbidden the congregation the use of the Orans posture during the Our Father but has many times cautioned against inserting unauthorized gestures into the Mass.

I guess this is the best answer. Make no effort to insert it. Don’t forbid it. This would seem to mirror what the Church has done from the Holy See.

 

[Dovekin]

Here is an excellent article on the subject:

What the Orans Posture Means | Catholic Answers

It alerts us to “the slippery slope.” If we start saying the Orans posture is only for priests, we will end up ordaining women.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If there are Catholics who don’t attend Sunday Mass because people hold hands, then they’re probably committing mortal sin as we’re the only little parish in this rural community. The church only holds about 150 people and that’s with every seat taken. That only tends to happen at the Christmas Vigil Mass and Easter Vigil.

However, because we’re small, we know each other and holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, has never been an issue.

Heaven forbid we celebrate Mass with a community of friends instead of a group of strangers.

Jim

 

[MagdalenaRita]

If there are Catholics who don’t attend Sunday Mass because people hold hands, then they’re probably committing mortal sin as we’re the only little parish in this rural community. The church only holds about 150 people and that’s with every seat taken

So, if they choose not to attend Mass then yes, that is a mortal sin. Completely agree. We also need to be respectful to those, who may have no other choice but to attend a small little parish and maybe do not want to participate in hand holding or raising hands. Many Catholics that can will drive quite a ways to a different parish if there is something happening that makes a person feel uncomfortable at Mass or they feel is an abuse. How hard it is on Sundays for those who can not make a long drive and yet are uncomfortable at Mass.

That only tends to happen at the Christmas Vigil Mass and Easter Vigil.

I am not sure if you mean the hand holding during the Our Father only happens at these times or it is full with every seat taken at these times.??

Heaven forbid we celebrate Mass with a community of friends instead of a group of strangers.

I am not necessarily saying raising ones hands or holding hands is wrong or an abuse, but just in response to this sentence here, I would rather celebrate Mass correctly and without abuses and with strangers than with friends who abuse the Mass liturgically. After a while, those strangers can become friends and family.

God bless

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If you have such a problem that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer with the person reaching out to you, that you decided to not attend Mass, then you’ve got a problem in your spiritual formation.

Ask yourself, would Jesus refuse ?

Jim

 

[MagdalenaRita]

If you have such a problem that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer with the person reaching out to you, that you decided to not attend Mass, then you’ve got a problem in your spiritual formation.

I don’t think you read my last post, I said it was a mortal sin to not attend Mass. It is not a mortal sin to go to a parish where you are not coerced to hold hands.

God bless.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What’s in the heart is the issue.

If a kind person reaches out to hold your hand in prayer, how can you refuse and not insult that person ?

I just don’t get it

Jim

 

[goout]

If you have such a problem that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer with the person reaching out to you, that you decided to not attend Mass, then you’ve got a problem in your spiritual formation.

Ask yourself, would Jesus refuse ?

Jim

Or likewise, you have the courage of your conviction to remain with your hands folded and take ownership of your conscience.
Missing Mass over this issue is not an option in any case.

And wrangling over this issue distracts and divides Christians from much bigger issues.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If your conscience prohibits you from holding hands with a person who reached out to you, you’re conscience needs an overhaul.

Jim

 

[goout]

If your conscience prohibits you from holding hands with a person who reached out to you, you’re conscience needs an overhaul.

Jim

Not necessarily, in this context.
On the street when someone is hungry, yea.

I don’t like joining hands at Mass, but I do it when offered.
But I respect others who don’t wish to. We should assume the best of one another.
It’s not a problem either way.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

What’s in the heart is the issue.

If a kind person reaches out to hold your hand in prayer, how can you refuse and not insult that person ?

I just don’t get it

Obedience to God is the issue.

At the moment I am praying the Our Father my focus is on God, not on the person next to me. We have very few people raising and holding hands anymore but if that happened I would politely smile and refuse, as I have seen other polite people do, but usually my eyes are closed and my head bowed as I am in prayer to God.

The couple of times I attended the Mass where everyone ended up in the middle, I didn’t have a choice, the crowd moved at me, which is why I do not attend that Mass.

If a kind person

The people reaching out are not necessarily always kind. I once observed a middle aged man in the pew in front of me hold an elderly woman’s hand so tight she was in pain and when she pulled her hand a way he chuckled at her.

If your conscience prohibits you from holding hands with a person who reached out to you, you’re conscience needs an overhaul.

In a different situation I would agree, but at Mass, my focus is to be on God and the sacrifice happening, not on the people around me. The same should be for the people next to me, they should be focusing on God, not me.

God bless

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What would be disobedience to God, by holding hands with the person next to you during the Lord’s Prayer ?

I recall Jesus telling us to love our neighbor as ourselves

Jim

 

[MagdalenaRita]

What would be disobedience to God, by holding hands with the person next to you during the Lord’s Prayer ?

I did not say disobedience to God, but not focusing on God. ??

 

[JimR-OCDS]

How are you not focusing on God when praying in union with those around you ?

Sounds like you prefer individual prayer over community prayer

Well that’s not what the Mass is about

The priest doesn’t celebrate Mass just for you, but for the community gathered in front of him.

Jim

 

[MagdalenaRita]

How are you not focusing on God when praying in union with those around you.
Sounds like you prefer individual prayer over community prayer

So, are you saying I can’t be praying in a community or in union with those around me without holding someone’s hand? We pray as a family all the time and do not hold hands. I grew up praying with my parents and my father leading the prayer and we did not hold hands. I work in a Catholic community and someone leads us in a prayer before meetings and no one holds hands. Does that mean we are not praying in a community or in union with each other??

Were Catholics throughout the ages who did not hold hands, not pray in community when at Mass?

The priest doesn’t celebrate Mass just for you, but for the community gathered in front of him.

Absolutely true.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So, are you saying I can’t be praying in a community without holding someone’s hand?

I didn’t say that

You said you’d refused to hold hands while praying the Lord’s Prayer, out of obedience to God.

This doesn’t make sense

But do what you will.

Jim