Orans posture prohibited during Lord's Prayer

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Being reserved is not the same as being cold. We shake hands and I admit I don’t feel comfortable entirely doing that but I go along with it and offer up my discomfort. It helps to remember that we are meeting Jesus in the form of His church. Feel much less weird kneeling alongside a stranger than I do physically touching them.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I’m not advocating hand holding, just not accepting rejection of it when it’s offered.

Jim
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I don’t like holding my own mother’s hand. I have a phobia of bodily secretions: sweat, saliva, blood, waste, etc.

I get very weirded out when holding someone’s hand and their hand is sweaty, has lotion on it, etc. I also get weirded out if my hand starts sweating.

I remember in elementary school or middle school, wanting to break up with a girl over her sweaty hands. I know it’s my issue, but sweaty hands it’s very distracting for me and weirds me out.

So when I have done it at mass, I can’t help but feel the hairs on the back of my neck standing up.

If you don’t experience this, then lucky you. That’s why you don’t understand. For some of us, there is an honest physical reaction that takes place and it’s very distracting & uncomfortable.

I know the reaction isn’t even rational, but it’s there. It’s like my wife’s fear of elevators, it’s not rational - it’s a phobia.

Heck, I don’t like holding my own children’s hands when their palms are sweaty - though I deal with it if I need to keep them safe. But I will quickly let go if there is no danger.

So again: forcing people to do things that is a major distraction for them is not needed. People who want to hold hands can do so. No big deal.

Just don’t pressure people into do it.

God bless
 
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AlbMagno said:
I guess it’s a cultural thing, here we say that the english world is more cold in affection…
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There might be a little truth to this, but it’s not just English speakers. While some British can appear to be far more “cold” than Americans in this regard; the Germans have a similar reputation as the British.
 
Yes, I was refering to the northern-western population in general. I guess I should have said the germanic descendants or something 🤣
 
What it appears is that you are wanting people here on the forum to feel guilty or feel that they are uncaring because they choose not to hold hands during the Our Father, even if it is offered.

I dont think that is what you actually intend but in a way that is pushing something that is not in the rubrics for Mass.

People have many reasons for not wanting to hold hands and that is ok and doesn’t mean they are uncaring.
 
Is giving a slight nod, and whispering “no thankful” rejection in your mind?

Why would anyone even offer their hand to a stranger?
 
Well, the fact that these anti-holding hands and orans posture threads show up so often, it isn’t people like myself trying to make others feel guilty, but just the opposite.

I need to just start ignoring these threads as they’re not conducive toward spiritual growth,.

Jim
 
Why would anyone even offer their hand to a stranger?
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Because at Mass some people want to make others feel welcome ?

Lets be a community of friends rather than a group of strangers, as our priest says

In fact, before Mass even starts, our priest asks the congregation to turn to the people around them and introduce themselves and say hello to each other.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
but just the opposite.
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I guess it can work both ways.
JimR-OCDS said:
Because at Mass some people want to make others feel welcome ?

Let’s be a community of friends…
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I agree but there are many ways to accomplish that.
JimR-OCDS said:
before Mass starts, our priest asks the congregation to turn to the people around them and introduce themselves and say hello to each other.
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That seems to me a better idea than reaching out to someone you dont know while they are praying.
 
What’s the point? Please don’t throw documents at people. That’s what fundamentalists do.
Address the point I made.

We are unique individuals forming a community. Both/and.
The Church is not socialist. The social character of the Church respects the unique individuality of it’s members.

What exactly are you trying to dispute?
 
At my school, when we go to Mass, everyone does the Oran’s posture. I personally prefer to just fold my hands, but I cant really do that when everyone around me is holding hands. What should I do? I would stick out like a sore thumb if I didnt join in.
 
FCS said:
At my school, when we go to Mass, everyone does the Oran’s posture. I personally prefer to just fold my hands, but I cant really do that when everyone around me is holding hands. What should I do? I would stick out like a sore thumb if I didnt join in.
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No, you probably wouldn’t.
If you don’t like holding hands and someone offers you a hand to hold and you refuse it, they might choose to take issue. I don’t think they would if your facial expression is friendly or if they go to take your hands and you have your head bowed, hands clasped and eyes closed already. As for praying palms up, people really do not care that much. If someone asks why you don’t and you just shrug and say, “I just pray the same all the time, with my hands folded,” they’re not likely to argue with you.
 
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I was asked to provide a document supporting my statement, that salvation was not intended to be individualistic, but social.

You posted that my statement was false, , which is why I linked Pope Benedict’s Encyclical for you to read.

Jim
 
I fail to see your point in reposting the link to the Encyclical.

The Encyclical clearly states that salvation is not individualistic, but social

We are saved as people, not as an individual alone, and why Mass is for the Community, not just for the individual.

Jim
 
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This is what you said in response to others expressing preferences, as you yourself do.
JimR-OCDS said:
Mass isn’t an individual form of worship, but communal

Salvation as never individualistic, but socialistic, per Pope Benedict XVI.

Jim
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And this is how I responded. To which you are stubbornly arguing to some? end.
False dichotomy.
We are unique individuals who are part of a community. It’s both/and .
Salvation is not an ism either way, neither individualistic or socialistic. Salvation is for each unique individual saved as integral parts of the whole…as St Paul explains in his “parts of the body” talk.
Union with Christ in his body does not deny our uniqueness.

Our Hispanic community for instance, has unique expressions of religious culture and spirituality at Mass. They tend to be more spontaneous and charismatic, in the good sense of the word.
Would you have them lose their uniqueness and individuality so they worship “just like the rest of us”?
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Jim, what is your point…
 
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My point is that salvation and Mass are not for us individually alone, but for the community of believers. Our salvation is not unique, but in common with others who have the same faith. It’s not us and them, but all of us together. We’ll be in heaven with the community of saints, not just by ourselves.

I also understand that we as individuals seek a relationship with God, just as our brothers and sisters do. But it’s our union in faith which unites use.

At this point, I think we’re talking past each other.

Jim
 
Yes, turning and facing someone, shaking their hand, all customary ways to make someone feel welcome. Wanting to holds their hand?
 
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