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mjdonnelly
Guest
If that is how someone normally prays, fine, let them do that, but most of the time it is a game of monkey see-monkey do.
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Swiss_Guard
Guest
You’re right, there is a posture for reception of Holy Communion: kneeling! However, you want to deny people their GIRM-given right to kneel because you don’t like to see people doing it.
**Check the statement by Colin Donovan again about the orans posture not being in the rubrics. **
. The intention for lay people using the Orans position at this time is, I suppose, that we pray Our Father, and the unity of people and priest together is expressed by this common gesture of prayer. Although this gesture is not called for in the rubrics, it does at least seem, on the surface, to not be in conflict with the sacramental sign system at the point when we pray Our Father. I say on the surface, however, since while lay people are doing this the deacon, whose postures are governed by the rubrics, may not do it. So, we have the awkward disunity created by the priest making an appropriate liturgical gesture in accordance with the rubrics, the deacon not making the same gesture in accordance with the rubrics, some laity making the same gesture as the priest not in accordance with the rubrics, and other laity not making the gesture (for various reasons, including knowing it is not part of their liturgical role). In the end, the desire of the Church for liturgical unity is defeated.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/orans_posture.htm
If the GIRM is silent on a matter, it doesn’t mean we can do it. It means we have to look elsewhere to see if it is allowed. Nowhere in the rubrics of the Paul VI Missal does it give the laity permission to use the orans posture anytime during the Mass. Therefore, the laity should not use the orans posture at anytime during Mass because it effects liturgical unity. I’d be careful about who I call ignorant in the future.
Your hypocrisy comes through clearly on the matter of liturgical unity and the GIRM. You could care less about what the rubrics for the Mass say, you want to do what you feel like doing. You only use the GIRM and liturgical unity as a smoke screen to force people to obey your every whim rather than what the Church really teaches. Obedience to the bishops is only necessary as long as the bishops agree with you. When the bishops state otherwise, as in the rubrics regarding the orans posture, then we are free to disobey them if it is something you like to do.
You’re just another modernist who wants to make the Church in your image rather than conform yourself to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.
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romano
Guest
Nothing.
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Swiss_Guard
Guest
I’m not going to get into this again with you, since the last time I did you went to the moderators and got me suspended because I pointed out the absolute illogic of your position.
The norm is standing, I’m not even arguing that point. However, if the GIRM says we cannot be denied Holy Communion if we kneel, and you agree that we cannot be punished, then we have a right to receive it kneeling. You can use any Clintonesque interpretation you want, the fact is we have the right to kneel for Holy Communion. Also, you are not the interpreter of the GIRM, Rome is, so your interpretation means nothing. Next thing I know you’ll be telling me it all depends on what the meaning of the word is is.
Now that I’ve gotten all of that off my chest, I hope everything is well with you and your mother. I hope that people are respectful of her when she receives Holy Communion that she doesn’t almost trip over someone kneeling. While I support kneeling for Holy Communion, I agree with you that it was disrespectful of your mother for someone to cause her to almost injure herself. I would not receive Holy Communion if I knew I was going to cause someone else to hurt himself.
Pax tecum SuZ.
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Swiss_Guard
Guest
I find it odd that kneeling for Holy Communion is distracting and ostentatious but holding up your hands in the pew as if you’re an ordained priest is OK.
I find it amazing that the people who think the orans posture is fine and tell everyone not to judge people who do it and not to tell anyone to refrain from doing it are the same ones who want to force everyone to do things their way even when the Church says people are free to do things differently.
Just another case of the intolerance of those who claim to be the most tolerant.
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Mysty101
Guest
Swiss Guard:
Thank you for acknowledging the point of a tripping hazard.
This is simply not true. As I said before with the speeding example (If the speed limit is 55, and you go 60, you will not be given a ticket, you may not conclude that you have a right to drive 60 miles an hour)
Thank you for acknowledging the point of a tripping hazard.
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Mysty101
Guest
Swiss Guard said:
I really don’t understand why you cannot see the difference between an instruction, and an option.
**
I find it amazing that the people who think the orans posture is fine and tell everyone not to judge people who do it and not to tell anyone to refrain from doing it are the same ones who want to force everyone to do things their way even when the Church says people are free to do things differently.
Just another case of the intolerance of those who claim to be the most tolerant
Hmmm —now just who might that be? Maybe someone who ignores specific instructions, but slams some when there is no specific instruction???**
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Mysty101
Guest
Swiss Guard:
I don’t think this was the reason you were suspended, and it might be better if you understand and correct the real problem.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Originally Posted by otm
Quote:
Originally Posted by netmil(name removed by moderator)
That being said, If yours was a court case, the law would go against your burden of proof that injury was caused by the kneeling person.
And you got your law degree from…where?
Mysty101:
No law degree, just five juries of Personal Injury cases.
In each case, the person who lost the case was the person who did not watch for a hazzard. Like a visitor from another (perhaps foreign) parish who knelt when it is allowed by that person’s Bishop.
Mysty, you’d have a tough time finding kneeling in a Fire Code, but I give you credit for trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netmil(name removed by moderator)
That being said, If yours was a court case, the law would go against your burden of proof that injury was caused by the kneeling person.
And you got your law degree from…where?
You posters are focused, I must say.
No law degree, just five juries of Personal Injury cases.
In each case, the person who lost the case was the person who did not watch for a hazzard. Like a visitor from another (perhaps foreign) parish who knelt when it is allowed by that person’s Bishop.
Mysty, you’d have a tough time finding kneeling in a Fire Code, but I give you credit for trying.
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