Orate Fratres in "Order of Mass with the Participation of a Single Minister"

  • Thread starter Thread starter comrade1789
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

comrade1789

Guest
I have a question regarding the Orate Fratres in the context of the Roman Missal’s “Order of Mass with the Participation of a Single Minister” beginning on page 598. I see that in the Introductory Rites the Confiteor is changed to read in the singular and gender specific, saying “I confess…to you my brother” omitting reference to sisters or plural brothers when the priest is celebrating with only one minister. However, I noticed when I turned the page, that the Missal then re-instates the use of the plural invitation, “Pray Brethren (Brothers and Sisters)” during the Liturgy of the Eucharist just after the washing of hands, even though the gathered assembly remains only the Priest and the single minister.

Could you tell me why the Roman Missal instructs in this way? Is the issue theological or merely customary or something else?

Thank you so much for any light you could shed on this for me.
 
It is the same in the edition of the Roman Missal used in Australia, pages 775 and 779.
 
That is very interesting. You know, it is a bit strange, because the previous missal changed both the confiteor and the Orate Fratres to the masculine singular for the old name, The Order of Mass without a Congregation. The Roman-Franciscan Missal did the same thing, so for 35 or so years prior to the new missal, The Confiteor and Orate were both in the masculine singular, but now the Confiteor is changed to singular masculine as you would expect, but the Orate is strangely in the plural, either gender-neutral (Brethren) or sex & gender inclusive (Brothers and Sisters).

Is this a mistake, a change in theological stress, or merely a customary or something else?
 
comrade1789 said:
That is very interesting. You know, it is a bit strange, because the previous missal changed both the confiteor and the Orate Fratres to the masculine singular for the old name, The Order of Mass without a Congregation. The Roman-Franciscan Missal did the same thing, so for 35 or so years prior to the new missal, The Confiteor and Orate were both in the masculine singular, but now the Confiteor is changed to singular masculine as you would expect, but the Orate is strangely in the plural, either gender-neutral (Brethren) or sex & gender inclusive (Brothers and Sisters).

Is this a mistake, a change in theological stress, or merely a customary or something else?
Click to expand...
There are many inconsistencies in the translations. For example, sometimes “hostia” is translated as “host,” sometimes as “Victim.” Even “confiteor” is translated as “I confess” while in the creed it’s “I acknowledge.” And so on.

BTW, “Orate” is in the plural. The singular would be “Ora.”
 
In the Old Mass, the Confiteor always included “you brothers/brethren,” even in a private Mass with no servers. The Orate Fratres is the same for both Old and New Rites. So it is the new Confiteor that is the problem.

My guess is this is the result of hasty writing/translating, without much proofreading/cross-referencing. This wouldn’t be the first typographical error/inconsistency.
 
BertBlyleven said:
In the Old Mass, the Confiteor always included “you brothers/brethren,” even in a private Mass with no servers. The Orate Fratres is the same for both Old and New Rites. So it is the new Confiteor that is the problem.

My guess is this is the result of hasty writing/translating, without much proofreading/cross-referencing. This wouldn’t be the first typographical error/inconsistency.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the problem doesn’t seem to exist for Latinate languages, but in the English it does. I will have to look into what you say about the Old Mass with no servers still being in the plural. That would be important to know.
 
comrade1789 said:
Yeah, the problem doesn’t seem to exist for Latinate languages, but in the English it does. I will have to look into what you say about the Old Mass with no servers still being in the plural. That would be important to know.
Click to expand...
Nothing changes in a private Mass with no servers. The priest makes all responses. This is because at Mass we are always accompanied by the angels and saints.
 
BertBlyleven said:
Nothing changes in a private Mass with no servers. The priest makes all responses. This is because at Mass we are always accompanied by the angels and saints.
Click to expand...
Well, during the Eucharistic Liturgy this argument makes sense, but during the Confiteor of the Introductory Rites it doesn’t explain everything, as a distinction is being made between the Church Triumphant (All the Angels and Saints) and the Church Militant (You my brothers and sisters/brethren/brothers). Those of the Church Militant not present do not constitute part of the gathered assembly, and therefore I can’t confess to them, or ask them for their prayers. I can pray on their behalf (eg. The Our Father), but I think the English Missal is making a distinction here, which would explain why in both the 2nd and 3rd English Translations, the Confiteor for Order of Mass with a Single Participant is addressed solely to “you my brother.”

Keeping in mind the purpose of the Confiteor in the Introductory Rites, it is to prepare ourselves to celebrate the Sacred Mysteries. The Church Triumphant doesn’t need to prepare themselves, and those of the Church Militant not present have no ability, nor intention to prepare themselves at the very celebration taking place, so it wouldn’t make sense, to me anyway, to be including them in the prayer.

This also seems to be the understanding of the Office of Divine Worship at the USCCB, as a response from them I recently received reads:
"The Secretariat holds that the formula you refer to may be adapted, for example to omit ‘sisters’ if the assembly is all male. This judgment is based on the Roman Missal itself which adapts the formula in the ‘Order of Mass with the Participation of a Single Minister.’

The concern about doing so would only be a pastoral one so that a group does not become accustomed to omitting the word and then continues to do so when female visitors are present–something which it would be easy to do out of habit."
 
comrade1789 said:
I have a question regarding the Orate Fratres in the context of the Roman Missal’s “Order of Mass with the Participation of a Single Minister” beginning on page 598. I see that in the Introductory Rites the Confiteor is changed to read in the singular and gender specific, saying “I confess…to you my brother” omitting reference to sisters or plural brothers when the priest is celebrating with only one minister. However, I noticed when I turned the page, that the Missal then re-instates the use of the plural invitation, “Pray Brethren (Brothers and Sisters)” during the Liturgy of the Eucharist just after the washing of hands, even though the gathered assembly remains only the Priest and the single minister.

Could you tell me why the Roman Missal instructs in this way? Is the issue theological or merely customary or something else?

Thank you so much for any light you could shed on this for me.
Click to expand...
The priest is celebrating Mass with all the angels and saints in heaven. That is why he says “brothers and sisters.”
 
bben15 said:
The priest is celebrating Mass with all the angels and saints in heaven. That is why he says “brothers and sisters.”
Click to expand...
Are you just going to ignore what comrade1789 said about the Church Militant?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top