Oratorians and no vow of chastity

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123Strontium

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Sorry if this is under the wrong section, but I’m not sure where this should go.

My question is: If the Oratorians do not take vows of chastity, poverty and obedience, then what does that mean? They are still obey those elements right, but they have not taken life-long vows for it…

Thanks
 
All Christians are called to poverty, chastity, and obedience, whether we take formal vows or not.
 
Hi
Of course they will, as the previous guy said: we’re all called to those three elements of Catholicism. Most Oratorians become priests at some point and then they formally take those vows during Holy Orders, otherwise religious brothers and laymen that are Oratorians take these vows upon those ceremonies of induction. These vows are just confirmations of concrete belief - unbelievers need to somehow know we follow strict rules because they believe that written ‘laws’ are the only powers that binds.
 
As far as I know, no. The Oratorians are not taking vows. They live together in a community but they are not monks or religious. The priests are basically diocesan/secular which committed to live together in a stable group/oratory.
 
Alfonsus said:
As far as I know, no. The Oratorians are not taking vows. They live together in a community but they are not monks or religious. The priests are basically diocesan/secular which committed to live together in a stable group/oratory.
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This is correct. The Oratorians are not a religious order, congregation or institute. They are a society of apostolic life made up of only priests. Which means that all of them are ordained (or preparing for ordination) and male. They do not have sisters or nuns, and they do not have a third order, although they may have laypeople who act as informal associates.

Priests do NOT take vows of chastity, obedience and poverty as part of their ordinations. Rather, priests make promises of celibacy and obedience to the bishop who ordains them. When a priest joins the Oratorians, they do not take vows in addition to these basic priestly promises.

Also, the kinds of religious vows that consecrated religious take are reserved to them alone, by virtue of Church law and tradition. They are different from the sort of vows or promises that a layperson might make. Diocesan priests are not considered “consecrated religious” in Church law. Consecrated religious live in special kinds of communities, take the 3 vows, and may or may not be ordained. In fact, the great majority of consecrated religious are NOT ordained.
 
Obedience, Detachment from possessions and Chastity are listed among the “excellences” of the Oratory, but you’re right, its members do not take these specific vows.

There is an old Oratorian saying, that one only knows a son of St. Philip on his deathbed. I once heard the provost of the Oxford Oratory, Fr. Daniel Seward, put it like this:

The only good Oratorian is a dead Oratorian. You only know you’ve persevered when you’re on your deathbed.
+++

Two of my patrons are Oratorians, one of them Blessed John Henry Newman. While reading his letters, I imbibed the sense of love and obedience that permeates this society. One of the key aspects of the Oratorian vocation is that there are no vows. Friendship and familial love are the ties that bind a Congregation together.

The following are from an outline, on a talk given on the Oratorians:

Canonical Status of the Oratory: "The Immutable State of the Oratory”:
a. not bound by any vow, oath, or promise—held together by the bond of charity.
b. members give themselves with a free will with the intention of remaining in the Congregation until death
c. every local Congregation rules

+++

Aspects of the Oratorian Vocation: Freedom to Leave the Congregation
a. Oratorians not bound by vows which would require them to remain
b. they serve freely as “volunteers”
c. “The true sons of Saint Philip are recognized at their burial.”
d. This is only possible through the grace of God, which must be sought and accepted every day—Saint Philip counseled his sons to pray daily for perseverance
e. “Oh, what a glorious thing, to die sons of St Philip!”

take care,
amsjj 🙂

+++
Jesus, God and man,
imprisoned by love in Thy most holy Sacrament,
have mercy upon us.
  • Blessed John Henry Newman, December 22, 1851
Tú y yo sabemos por la fe que oculto en las especies sacramentales está Cristo,
ese Cristo con su Cuerpo, con su Sangre, con su Alma, y con su Divinidad,
prisonero de amor.
  • San Josemaría Escrivá, 1 junio 1974
… Our Lord Himself frequently said; and it is recorded as an Apostolic tradition from Him
by St. Justin the Martyr. He says ‘Jesus often said, “They who are near Me are near a fire”’.
  • Abp. W. B. Ullathorne, August 1st 1886
 
Also you might want listen to Fr. Seward’s lecture “Faith Matters: Cardinal Newman and Friendship” as during the talk he brings up several aspects of being an Oratorian.
vimeo.com/17843703

take care,
amsjj 🙂

+++
Jesus, God and man,
imprisoned by love in Thy most holy Sacrament,
have mercy upon us.
  • Blessed John Henry Newman, December 22, 1851
Tú y yo sabemos por la fe que oculto en las especies sacramentales está Cristo,
ese Cristo con su Cuerpo, con su Sangre, con su Alma, y con su Divinidad,
prisonero de amor.
  • San Josemaría Escrivá, 1 junio 1974
… Our Lord Himself frequently said; and it is recorded as an Apostolic tradition from Him
by St. Justin the Martyr. He says ‘Jesus often said, “They who are near Me are near a fire”’.
  • Abp. W. B. Ullathorne, August 1st 1886
 
wow, thanks for these very clear explanations. A lot of well-informed people on this forum.
 
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