Ordained slavery

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Charlotte408

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I’ve read that, a Pope in the past at one point ‘ordained’ slavery, which spurred the Portugese Slave Trade…

I’m pretty sure that ‘ordained’ is not the same as ‘made doctrine/dogma’, and I understand that sometimes, God uses bad people to show that even bad people must do his will…

So my questions are…
  1. What was REALLY happening at that time, to where he felt making this ordinance neccessary?
  2. When/who, corrected this ordinance?
  3. What, if any, good came out of it?
Thanks you guys!
 
Charlotte408 said:
I’ve read that, a Pope in the past at one point ‘ordained’ slavery, which spurred the Portugese Slave Trade…

I’m pretty sure that ‘ordained’ is not the same as ‘made doctrine/dogma’, and I understand that sometimes, God uses bad people to show that even bad people must do his will…

So my questions are…
  1. What was REALLY happening at that time, to where he felt making this ordinance neccessary?
  2. When/who, corrected this ordinance?
  3. What, if any, good came out of it?
Thanks you guys!
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Robert: No actually the reverse is true. With the advent of the Holy Roman Empire - once pagan Rome which allowed slavery , abolished the practise. Little is written on the subject from that time forward because the practise didnt exist. With the exploration of other parts of the world and the altercations with non - catholics that endeavor spawned some unscrupulous Catholics to test the moral limits and to enslave non Catholics under the false precept that a Catholic slave was better off catholic than to be a free pagan ultimately. The Church was slow to react and there was a lot of back and forth going on in theological circles regarding that concept. The Popes finally started to define what was and was not moral.

Eugene IV: Sicut Dudum, 1435

Paul III: Sublimis Deus, 1537

Gregory XVI: In Supremo, 1839

For the Catholics of the United States - as for Catholics everywhere - there was the consistent, historical teaching of the Church, as presented through Eugene IV. Pius II, Paul III, Gregory XIV, Urban VIII, Innocent XI, Benedict XIV, Pius VII and others.

Pax
 
From Wikipedia (see here):

The Portuguese sought confirmation that they could enslave infidels in a crusade. In 1452 Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas to King Alfonso V of Portugal which included the following words: “we grant to you…full and free permission to invade, search out, capture and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ…to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery”. In 1454 Pope Nicholas explicitly confirmed the rights granted to King Alfonso V in Dum Diversas in Romanus Pontifex by which he granted to Alfonso “…the rights of conquest and permissions previously granted not only to the territories already acquired but also those that might be acquired in the future”.
 
Corki said:
Which Pope? What document/proclamation?
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Hey corki!

You know- I’m oblivious to the whole thing, as I always am when I post questions, which is why I post them…LOL, so bear with me…

It was said to me, that a pope ordained slavery, and we all agreed to it, and then another pope rescinded it. I found this:

romancatholicism.org/popes-slavery.htm

But didnt know quite what to make of it or how to put it into perspective of, why he would have done it, other factors at the time, the difference between ‘ordain’ and ‘dogma’ etc…

I try not to go to wikipedia, and usually I get really good informational sites from caf posters, so sorry if that link is also not really sound…it was the only one I could find.
 
Just_Lurking said:
From Wikipedia (see here):

The Portuguese sought confirmation that they could enslave infidels in a crusade. In 1452 Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas to King Alfonso V of Portugal which included the following words: “we grant to you…full and free permission to invade, search out, capture and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ…to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery”. In 1454 Pope Nicholas explicitly confirmed the rights granted to King Alfonso V in Dum Diversas in Romanus Pontifex by which he granted to Alfonso “…the rights of conquest and permissions previously granted not only to the territories already acquired but also those that might be acquired in the future”.
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Theres that wikipedia link- and EXACTLY what was quoted to me.
 
Just_Lurking said:
From Wikipedia (see here):

The Portuguese sought confirmation that they could enslave infidels in a crusade. In 1452 Nicholas V issued the papal bull Dum Diversas to King Alfonso V of Portugal which included the following words: “we grant to you…full and free permission to invade, search out, capture and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ…to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery”. In 1454 Pope Nicholas explicitly confirmed the rights granted to King Alfonso V in Dum Diversas in Romanus Pontifex by which he granted to Alfonso “…the rights of conquest and permissions previously granted not only to the territories already acquired but also those that might be acquired in the future”.
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Eugene IV: Sicut Dudum, 1435 however , came first.
 
Wikipedia is far from a scholarly source.

With out references to the actual documents that it claims to quote it is hard to know the truth.
 
So Rob, if Eugene came first, and said what he said (I did read the link), and then another Pope came and said what the Lurker said…

Does current Pope trump past Pope? How does that work?
 
One should note the difference between forcing prisoners of war to labor as against the capture of innocent victims and reducing them to enforced labor. There is no just comparison between the two. I would argue that it is very important to distinguish between prisoners of war who are subject to toil for those who captured them, and kidnapping people to put up for auction.
 
Charlotte408 said:
So Rob, if Eugene came first, and said what he said (I did read the link), and then another Pope came and said what the Lurker said…

Does current Pope trump past Pope? How does that work?
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Well , Jesus came first. The power of the Papacy lies not in getting to determine what is in the Deposit of Faith - but in more greatly defining whats already in the Deposit of Faith.So therefore , if one Pope has done so - a future Pope may go into greater detail but what wont happen is for one Pope to completely contradict another Pope. So if you take a look at the Encyclical and the Bull in question - they dont contradict. The Bull allows for the King to Enslave Saracens ( Islamics who had no problem enslaving Christians too BTW) and non Catholic Pagans , the Principal Being that they were better off Slaves with a chance to be Catholic than Pagan and free. The Encyclical talked about the Immorality of enslaving Christians. And as History advanced - we see these misconceptions one by one cleared up.
 
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