Ordaining Married Priests in the Americas

[Vico]

What does Rome have to do with it?

In general it is governance through approval of the eastern cannon law prior to promulgation. Specifically, Metropolitan sui iuris churches must receive notification from Rome before promulgation of laws by the Council of Hierarchs. The Byzantine CC at the time of Bishop Andrew Pataki legislated for married priests in the Byzantine particular law, but Rome would not approve it. Although it was made the law, sent to Rome for notification to promulgate, but Rome intervened and finally required modification of the laws.

 

[docnerves]

Different Particular Law has been put in place for Ukrainian and Byzantine.

CCEO Canon 758

1. To be ordained licitly the following are required:INDENT chrismation with holy myron;
   (2) both the morals and the physical and psychological qualities in harmony with receiving a sacred order;
   (3) the age prescribed by law;
   (4) the required knowledge;
   (5) reception of the lower orders according to the norm of particular law of each Church sui iuris;
   (6) observation of the interstices prescribed by particular law.
2. It is furthermore required that the candidate not be impeded according to the norm of can. 762.
3. The particular law of each Church sui iuris or special norms established by the Apostolic See are to be followed in admitting married men to sacred orders.

UGCC Particular Law

**Canon 99 (CCEO c. 758 §3) **
Under ordinary circumstances, married candidates can be ordained a minimum of one year after exemplary married life, which bears witness to the domestic Church, unless the eparchial bishop, under other circumstances, determines otherwise.

Byzantine USA Particular Law

Canon 758 §3
§1. Married men, after completion of the formation prescribed by law, can be admitted to the order of deacon
§2. Concerning the admission of married men to the order of the presbyterate, the special norms issued by the Apostolic See are to be observed, unless dispensations are granted by the same See in individual cases.

[/INDENT]

Thank you for the clarification, I greatly appreciate the references. MIR+

 

[SyroMalankara]

In general it is governance through approval of the eastern cannon law prior to promulgation. Specifically, Metropolitan sui iuris churches must receive notification from Rome before promulgation of laws by the Council of Hierarchs. The Byzantine CC at the time of Bishop Andrew Pataki legislated for married priests in the Byzantine particular law, but Rome would not approve it. Although it was made the law, sent to Rome for notification to promulgate, but Rome intervened and finally required modification of the laws.

I believe Seraphim is referring to the term “Apostolic See” as being not only limited to Rome but any Apostolic See or even the Apostolic See of the Church in question (e.g. Antioch for the Melkites, Alexandria for the Copts, etc).

 

[janeway529]

BREAKING: “Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation Urges Church To Lift Ban On Ordination Of Married Priests In Eastern Catholic Churches In North America: June 6, 2014. Action would affirm Eastern Rite tradition. Would encourage restoration of unity between Catholic, Orthodox Christians. Would enhance spiritual lives of Eastern Catholics.”

usccb.org/news/2014/14-099.cfm

 

[Vico]

I believe Seraphim is referring to the term “Apostolic See” as being not only limited to Rome but any Apostolic See or even the Apostolic See of the Church in question (e.g. Antioch for the Melkites, Alexandria for the Copts, etc).

Generally Roman Pontiff and Roman curia, with exceptions. So the Congregation for the Oriental Churches can be the Apostolic See per the norm of law, which includes the Pontiff and Patriarchs and Major Archbishops, among others *.CCEO
Canon 48
In this Code the term “Apostolic See” or “Holy See” applies not only to the Roman Pontiff but also, unless it is otherwise prescribed by the law or the nature of the matter indicates otherwise, dicasteries and other institutes of the Roman curia.

• Those bodies that retain their competence with respect to the Oriental Churches (all 22) are:
  1 the Congregation for the Oriental Churches
  2 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith,
  3 the Congregation for the Causes of Saints,
  4 the Apostolic Penitentiary,
  5 the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura,
  6 the Tribunal of the Roman Rota, and
  7 the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments

 

[Seraphim73]

In general it is governance through approval of the eastern cannon law prior to promulgation. Specifically, Metropolitan sui iuris churches must receive notification from Rome before promulgation of laws by the Council of Hierarchs. The Byzantine CC at the time of Bishop Andrew Pataki legislated for married priests in the Byzantine particular law, but Rome would not approve it. Although it was made the law, sent to Rome for notification to promulgate, but Rome intervened and finally required modification of the laws.

But why does Rome have anything to do with synodal decisions of other Churches? Does Rome submit it’s canons to the other Churches for approval before the promulgate them?

 

[SyroMalankara]

But why does Rome have anything to do with synodal decisions of other Churches? Does Rome submit it’s canons to the other Churches for approval before the promulgate them?

Let’s just say the Byzantine CC was less sui iuris at the time the decision was originally made. Some prefer to be heavily dependent, rather than self-governing.

 

[Seraphim73]

Let’s just say the Byzantine CC was less sui iuris at the time the decision was originally made. Some prefer to be heavily dependent, rather than self-governing.

So they are not really a Church but rather a diocese of the Latin Church?

 

[Vico]

But why does Rome have anything to do with synodal decisions of other Churches? Does Rome submit it’s canons to the other Churches for approval before the promulgate them?

The Catholic bishops are all in communion with one another and make universal synodal decisions, in addition to synodal decisions within each Church sui iuris.

 

[MorEphrem]

The Catholic bishops are all in communion with one another and make universal synodal decisions, in addition to synodal decisions within each Church sui iuris.

Communion does not mean other Churches can mediate the discipline and prudence of other Churches. The Copts do not tell the Syriacs they can or cannot do this or that. If they did, that would constitute them overstepping their boundaries. Communion is a mutual recognition of the orthodoxy - that’s it. The Eastern sui iris Churches are of an inferior standing with the Latin Church - perhaps de jure that is not the case but when Eastern bishops are essentially socially forced into cooperating with the USCCB and then things are done by majority vote so the 10 Eastern bishops are essentially disregarded among the 300 Latin bishops. There’s a reason why the Vatican has said they do not look to enter into communion with the EO and OO using the ECC model.

Such bad ecclesiology is very relevant when it comes to matters of ordaining married men because our canons say that we can - put then we are restricted by another Church’s canons. How does that make any sense? If it was communion in a true sense than there would be mutual understanding. Our inherently inferior position is demonstrated by incidents like that of Archbishop Ireland. I am not complaining, it’s simply a matter of ecclesiological fact.

 

[KathleenGee]

Why doesn’t the Catholic priest then go to serve an Orthodox Church?

I don’t think the Latin Church will ever let go of celibacy as it fulfills Our Lord stating that there are those who don’t marry for the sake of the kingdom.

Plus, through the Holy See we have the seat of Peter that transcends regionalism and ethnicity…and our priests can serve a much broader field of people and with great personal freedom and less expense to the Church. After all, many laity are suffering from lack of work with not enough to take care of their own children.

 

[Seraphim73]

The Catholic bishops are all in communion with one another and make universal synodal decisions, in addition to synodal decisions within each Church sui iuris.

But we are not talking about universal decisions. We’re talking about for example a decision made by say the Holy Synod of the Melkite Church. Are those submitted to Rome for approval?

 

[Vico]

But we are not talking about universal decisions. We’re talking about for example a decision made by say the Holy Synod of the Melkite Church. Are those submitted to Rome for approval?

The canon law for Latin and oriental Catholic churches is universal in the CIC and CCEO, however there may also be norms for each individual Church sui iuris beyond those.

However what I posted, that you quoted, pertains to the norms of the Byzantine Catholic Church USA not the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. The Melkites are a patriarchal church sui iuris and the Byzantine is a metropolitan church sui iuris, which are governed by different norms. The Byzantine Catholic Church is the only Metropolitan Church sui iuris in the USA. The Melkites have their patriarchal territory in the traditional see of Antioch. There are limitation outside the patriarchal territory.

CCEO (Patriarchal church sui iuris)Canon 150

1. Bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church have all the synodal rights and obligations of the other bishops of the same Church with due regard for can. 102, 2.
2. Laws enacted by the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church and promulgated by the patriarch, if they are liturgical, have the force of law everywhere in the world; if, however, they are disciplinary laws or concern other decisions of the synod, they have the force of law inside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church.
3. Eparchial bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church, who desire to do so, can attribute the force of law to disciplinary laws and other synodal decisions in their own eparchies, provided they do not exceed their competence; if however these laws or decisions are approved by the Apostolic See, they have the force of law everywhere in the world.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=601&pictureid=11498

 

[Seraphim73]

The canon law for Latin and oriental Catholic churches is universal in the CIC and CCEO, however there may also be norms for each individual Church sui iuris beyond those.

However what I posted, that you quoted, pertains to the norms of the Byzantine Catholic Church USA not the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. The Melkites are a patriarchal church sui iuris and the Byzantine is a metropolitan church sui iuris, which are governed by different norms. The Byzantine Catholic Church is the only Metropolitan Church sui iuris in the USA. The Melkites have their patriarchal territory in the traditional see of Antioch. There are limitation outside the patriarchal territory.

CCEO (Patriarchal church sui iuris)Canon 150

1. Bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church have all the synodal rights and obligations of the other bishops of the same Church with due regard for can. 102, 2.
2. Laws enacted by the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church and promulgated by the patriarch, if they are liturgical, have the force of law everywhere in the world; if, however, they are disciplinary laws or concern other decisions of the synod, they have the force of law inside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church.
3. Eparchial bishops constituted outside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church, who desire to do so, can attribute the force of law to disciplinary laws and other synodal decisions in their own eparchies, provided they do not exceed their competence; if however these laws or decisions are approved by the Apostolic See, they have the force of law everywhere in the world.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=601&pictureid=11498

What is the patriarchal territory of the Roman Church. Are there any limitations outside of that territory|

 

[Vico]

What is the patriarchal territory of the Roman Church. Are there any limitations outside of that territory|

The Latin Catholic Church is the ecumenical Patriarchate. The territory is outside of the eastern, however there are a lot of limitations for the Latin Church, which are given in the canon law, since the eastern Catholic law provides for rights and obligations of the oriental Catholic faithful, and the parallel for the Latin, and for their interaction, everywhere. Pastor Bonus also provides for the universal and coordinating functions of all the Catholic churches sui iuris, in addition to what is given in the CIC and CCEO canon laws. There are overlapping jurisdictions so coordination is achieved through the norm of law and through assemblies and episcopal conferences. The Latin Catholic Church has a particular responsibility to care for the Catholic faithful of any Catholic church sui iuris that does not have a hierarch of their own, anywhere in the world, but according to their proper traditions and disciplines. The Latin Church faithful are cared for by the eastern Catholic churches in areas where no Latin bishops have overlapping jurisdictions, such as Eritrea.

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks, Jharek and others for these most informative posts on Orthodoxy.

A thought immediately came to my mind.

We Catholics do NOT look down on the Orthodox because their priests marry. The issue is more to serve more freely and completely. I was very graced to read about an Orthodox priest and his wife, called ‘Mother’. Saw their photo together and read about how they served the Lord, saintly people.

I wonder as well, if modern Western life is that much more stressful on marriages considering the complexity of modern life here, the stress so many families have now just living in secular society, with more and more expensive care for the children, just getting their immunizations. The insurance has gone up. Our grandson’s is $400 month with his dad, the mother having separate insurance, a discount kind. Food, car seats costing $300 and they have to be licensed-- and so on, plus the bullying happening to kids in public schools. I think it is a very hard time now to raise children in America. Everybody is having it so hard. And to think these same families would have to support not only the priest, religious, but their wives and children. More burdens.

So no, we do not look at Orthodox any less for being married…having to share that whether it is perceived or not.

 

[KathleenGee]

Alot of it is still very confusing for me…I have to go through this thread better.

 

[Thomas48]

I don’t really understand this concept of “allowing” Eastern Catholics one tradition here and another here. It’s not just the idea of married priests but on a larger scale the Vatican taking action where it does not have authority. The Eastern Churches do most purely adhere to the primacy of Peter but through Vatican II and the established apostolic structures of our Churches, there is no need for the Latin Church to take part in the decisions and actions of her sister churches. Our churches are of thier own mandate and should be respectfully treated as such, with no regulation in a sense from the Latin Church.

Even for the Syro Malabar Church its hard to create a diocese for her diaspora in other parts of India due to this and that paraxis with the Latin Church, can you imagine even in other parts of India itself. For us so many people believed attaining a diocese in North America and Australia was a bad joke but through years of battering our hierarchs made it reality. My point is if in technicality, the Eastern Churches are self-governing sui juris churches than why is that we are still seeing issue from Rome concerning our diaspora and new jurisdiction.

 

[MorEphrem]

I would like to see how Latin bishops would respond if the bishops in the Middle East passed some kind of regional synod, called it an ecumenical council and tried to enforce that Latin bishops in the Middle East use leavened bread. It would be absolutely ridiculous - and perfectly analogous.

 

[twf]

I would like to see how Latin bishops would respond if the bishops in the Middle East passed some kind of regional synod, called it an ecumenical council and tried to enforce that Latin bishops in the Middle East use leavened bread. It would be absolutely ridiculous - and perfectly analogous.

The Latins would beg the Armenian Patriarch to take them under his wing