Ordaining women priests. What say you?

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belorg

**And do you actually think it is not blasphemy to treat a human being as if he were God himself?
A woman who has a vocation is called by God Himself. Who are you, or who is the pope to question this? **

And who are you, an atheist, to pontificate in such matters? :confused:
I do not pontificate in such matters.I just use my common sense. If you have a rational argument against this, present it and prove you actual are capable of thinking for yourself. Or do you need ‘pontification’ in order to make up your mind?
 
That may be true, but the Church cannot and will not ordain women as priests because it is not possible.

"…The question why women can’t be ordained priests is often confused with the issue of equality. The Holy Father has made it clear that men and women (as far as their sex is concerned) are equal before God (e.g., Mulieris Dignitatem 6). But equality isn’t identity. Men and women have different though complementary functions. Priesthood is a male function, for the reason that a priest is an icon of Christ, and Christ is male. The maleness of Christ is an important sign of His relationship to the Church, His Bride. As in nearly all cultures a man takes the initiative in winning a wife, so Christ took the initiative in winning souls and establishing His Church. For this reason, marriage is a “mystery” or sacrament of the Church (Eph 5:32).

Man ‘winning’ women? And that’s supposed to prove that the Holy Father actually regards men and women as equal?
St. Paul develops this theme in his parallel between a local church and the family. A “bishop” (or “overseer,” which applied to both bishops and priests in NT times) is expected to keep his own family in order, “for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he care for God’s church?” (1 Tim 3:5) Male headship in the family is an axiom of both Scripture and Tradition
Male headship in the family? Men and women are equal but only man is the boss?
Is this text supposed to show that there is actually a rational reason why women cannot become priests?

Really, I admit that I did not know in all details the reaons why women canot become priests , but after being enlightened by this declaration I must say that the ‘reasons’ are even more retarded than I thought.
 
Where do you get this stuff? Wikipedia? :rolleyes:

Funny how you mention ‘YOUR God.’ He is everyone’s, or no one’s;.

If he is no one’s then what are you worried about?
He is YOUR God, because this particulart Catholic God does not like women to be priests, while the Anglican God, e.g. does not seem to mind.

And if he’s no-one’s, I worry about the fact that people are willing to let go of their rationality for a delusion.
 
Its not a matter of what…God wants

The human race is composed of 50% women and 50% men… basically.

God loves women just as much as men. Obviously.

It is man who is respectfully choosing to re-enact the sacraments in honor of God sending his Son Jesus…who is male…with a male representative (Priest)

Can man not show this simple honor to God… without all kinds of jibber…?

Do you think it would really bother God if we ordained women?..Of course not…but why
can man not…at least pledge a respect in choosing male, out of a 50/50 field:thumbsup:
 
And if he’s no-one’s, I worry about the fact that people are willing to let go of their rationality for a delusion.
Don’t you about the fact that people are willing to let go of their rationality for the delusion that rationality is ultimately irrational? :whistle:
 
Women are invalid matter for priestly ordination, per John Paul II’s declaration.
Therefore, those women are not priests.
Invalid matter???

Do you have a reference to that? Should be interesting reading.
 
Don’t you about the fact that people are willing to let go of their rationality for the delusion that rationality is ultimately irrational? :whistle:
I apologise for omitting “worry”. Perhaps the slip was because I didn’t want to worry you! Just to make you think… 🙂
 
Man ‘winning’ women? And that’s supposed to prove that the Holy Father actually regards men and women as equal?

Male headship in the family? Men and women are equal but only man is the boss?
Is this text supposed to show that there is actually a rational reason why women cannot become priests?

Really, I admit that I did not know in all details the reaons why women canot become priests , but after being enlightened by this declaration I must say that the ‘reasons’ are even more retarded than I thought.
Take it up with God. It is His plan. Calling God’s plan “retarded” is offensive. There are passages in the Bible that directly teach the headship of the husband.

Ephesians 5:23, “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.” Corinthians 11:3, “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”
 
Its not a matter of what…God wants. . .Do you think it would really bother God if we ordained women?..Of course not…but why
can man not…at least pledge a respect in choosing male, out of a 50/50 field
Actually it is very much what God wants, given the Incarnation of God as Man. True inspired religion was essentially different from pagan religion because true inspired religion was ordered toward the mysterious and eternal Fatherhood of God (see Eph. 3:14-15), and thus had male priests to image this Divine Fatherhood, whereas pagan religion worshipped forces of the created universe (as if they were gods), and thus had priestly ministers who imaged the qualities of these created forces, which were seen as either male (a god) or female (a goddess). The true God of Israel could not be imaged as a female, i.e., a receptive nurturer of life, since He is the initiating Creator of all, and thus a clear Progenitor and Originator of life - a role held in human and created biology by men, not by women. To depict God or His priest in a female capacity is essentially to say that God is “receptive” and “incubative” rather than a Progenitor, and thus part of Creation, rather than its supernatural Originator. This is the deepest problem with a proposed female priesthood for Christianity.

When God becomes Man, He makes everything about that Man revelatory, not only about God but about man. Thus that Man (Who is God) chooses water for baptism, oil for anointing of the sick, bread and wine for the Eucharist, and the Apostles for High Priests, definite men to take his place when He visibly exits; those and only those chosen material beings mediate the graces He wants mediated. We are not free to correct His choices. Thus a Tradition which is Divine in origin and Divine in being sustained by the Holy Spirit manifests the will of that Christ. Faith accepts that. Human perception and self-will do not respect that.

Given this insistence on the material medium as being essential for the validity of sacramental grace and not faith in it alone, a Catholic may not hold to another understanding of the priesthood. In Protestantism the personal sincerity self-affirmed is the interior condition alone which validates, and then the outward sign is merely expressing this already existing spiritual reality believed in so that it is merely a political issue to get the institution to accept the believed-valid spiritual reality already existing.

For Catholics the only valid spiritual reality is made present through the integrity of the sacramental signs which confer the interior reality. Any corruption of the sign (essential alteration of the matter, form, i.e., words and meaning, minister) invalidates the presence of the Reality.

An article which may help: bringyou.to/apologetics/a49.htm
It is man who is respectfully choosing to re-enact the sacraments in honor of God sending his Son Jesus…who is male…with a male representative (Priest)
OTC, the Sacraments were given and are to be celebrated at Christ’s initiative, not by man’s; further, they are not celebrated “in honor of Jesus” but make present His saving work in our world at HIS command. Your topsy-turvy view represents why so many even in the Church can’t understand the nature of the Church and thus the nature of the Sacraments and the proper matter through which they are to be celebrated.
 
I’m almost 50, so i don’t expect to live another 80 years.
I know there is a tendency especially in Wetsren Europe to question celibacy and exclusively male priesthood. This is not just some ordinary people questioning those things, there are priets and bishops who do this.
Eeventually evn the Catholic church will come to its senses. It will have to if it wants to survive the 21st century.
And you are wrong: if a pope allows women to become priests, the pope is right, because you believe the pope is always right.
BTW what are you so afraid of? What practical difference would it make if women became priests? “The bride of Christ” or “the gromm of Christ”, this is just symbolic language. Metphors can change too.

And eventually the Orthodox churches will allow women priests too. Maybe this will take more than 80 years, who knows, but once things start moving, things can change rapidly. Who would have thought the Soviet Union would decine so fast, or what about the Arab revolutions?
There will never Be women holding the Office of a preist in the Catholic Church. You are Right in that we hold that the Pope can not error on matters of the Faith and Morals. Since it has been declared By post in the past that women can not be ordained. No future successor of the Chair of St Peter can change that.As the saying goes “Roma locuta est, causa finita est” or Rome has spoken, the case is closed.

Those that try to ordain women has set themselves apart form the Church and until they mend their ways should be treaded as such. That is with respect due to all men, but with the firm hand that those who are in error need.
 
Take it up with God. It is His plan. Calling God’s plan “retarded” is offensive. There are passages in the Bible that directly teach the headship of the husband.

Ephesians 5:23, “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.” Corinthians 11:3, “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”
This is not ‘God’s plan’, this is the personal opinion of a guy named Paul, and yes, it is a retarded view. not that Paul is to blame for that, after all he lived in a society where women were considered inferior.
Some of us know better now.
 
Man ‘winning’ women? And that’s supposed to prove that the Holy Father actually regards men and women as equal?

Male headship in the family? Men and women are equal but only man is the boss?
Is this text supposed to show that there is actually a rational reason why women cannot become priests?

Really, I admit that I did not know in all details the reaons why women canot become priests , but after being enlightened by this declaration I must say that the ‘reasons’ are even more retarded than I thought.
Being the Head does not make you the Boss. I means you have a certain role to fullfil. It is clear that you concider the Chruch and her teachings as well as those the belong and follow retarded. So why are you here? If it is to enlighten us with you superior knowledge and abilty to see things clearly without the blinding mind retarding teaching of God, give up
Been there done that, it is lonly cold and offers nothing. if you are here to see what we do beleive and why please stay ask question, But do not try to tell us we are wrong and our beleifs are retarded. It is rude.
 
He is YOUR God, because this particulart Catholic God does not like women to be priests, while the Anglican God, e.g. does not seem to mind.

And if he’s no-one’s, I worry about the fact that people are willing to let go of their rationality for a delusion.
It matters not if one believes in God or not, It matters not if one disogeys Him or not. There is but one God.
 
. . .And as for the priest being the impersonation of Christ, is it really too difficult for your omnipotent God to have a women impersonate Christ? Was Christ black? Is it therefore impmossible for black people to become priests?
The word is “personification”, not “impersonation”.

Gender cannot be lumped into the same category as nationality or race. If I, who am caucasian, woke up black, I would still essentially be the same person. If I woke up a man, however, I would not be. More separates men and women than simply our sexual organs. Our bodies, our hormones, our very minds are effected by our gender. Gender permeates to the deepest part of our identity, in a way that no other personal characteristic does. Jesus did not simply become human, He became a male human. To ordain women priests would be to reduce the Incarnation to “Jesus became human”, weakening its theology.

Further, being a father isn’t limited to Jewish males. The priest is to stand in the place of Christ (acting “in Persona Christi Capitas” - “In the Person of Christ the Head”), and so preside over the Body (the Church) as its Sacramental Head (Christ’s Sacramental vicar). To do this, the priest must image Christ the Bridegroom, i.e., be a physical sign of Christ the Bridegroom, and to relate this way to the Church, which, collectively, is Christ’s Bride - His own Body (see Eph. 5:25-32); and in order to do this, the priest must be a male. Intimately connected to this is the origin of the word “priest” itself, which in the Greek of Scripture is “presbyteros” (e.g. Acts 14:23) often translated literally as “presbyter” or “elder,” but what it really means in Greek is “senior” or “patriarch”, i.e., the father of the community.

This, of course, is the origin of the Catholic custom of calling a priest “father” (see 1 Cor. 4:15); and this is a continuity of our Jewish roots, for it was the father (and not the mother) who presided at the Passover Meal, and so over our New Passover Meal, the Eucharist. It was also the father or elder of the family, tribe, or clan which offered animal sacrifices on behalf of the family, tribe, or clan before the institution of the Jewish Levitical priesthood under Moses (e.g. Gen 8:20-21, Gen 15:9-18, Gen 26:25, etc.). Christ’s New Covenant was a restoration of this privilege to the fathers of the entire community (the Ordination of presbyters/priests: Acts 14:23), rather than limiting it to the Levitical caste alone (as Moses had done after the rebellion of the Golden Calf). A woman, of course, is incapable of being a father, just as a man is incapable of being a mother.

The Catholic Church, by the Lord’s own design is a Family - a Household (Eph. 2:19-20, 1 Tim. 3:15), and thus a patriarchy by nature.
 
belorg

**This is not ‘God’s plan’, this is the personal opinion of a guy named Paul, and yes, it is a retarded view. not that Paul is to blame for that, after all he lived in a society where women were considered inferior.
Some of us know better now. **

Yeah, right. Atheists love to pontificate about God’s plan and throw in some Catholic bashing too.
 
This is not ‘God’s plan’, this is the personal opinion of a guy named Paul, and yes, it is a retarded view. not that Paul is to blame for that, after all he lived in a society where women were considered inferior.
Some of us know better now.
Do you seriously believe any of this?
 
Being the Head does not make you the Boss
I means you have a certain role to fullfil. .
The role of a boss, yes.
It is clear that you concider the Chruch and her teachings as well as those the belong and follow retarded.
No, there are lots of things about the Church and her teaching I find very positive. The teaching about women, on the other hand, I find retarded.
That does not mean that those who belong to and follow the teachings retarded.
So why are you here? If it is to enlighten us with you superior knowledge and abilty to see things clearly without the blinding mind retarding teaching of God, give up
No, it’s to show you there is another way of looking at things, which does not involve discrimination.
If you are here to see what we do beleive and why please stay ask question, But do not try to tell us we are wrong and our beleifs are retarded. It is rude.
I know what you do believe and some of the things you believe IMO have no place in a modern society.Whuy should you be the ones telling me how I should live my life if I am not allowed to give my opinion.?
 
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