Ordaining women priests. What say you?

[Charlemagne_II]

Robertanthony

**We take orders from God, atheists tend to not believe in God, enough said. **

Well said. It seems odd that atheists are piling on at CAF trying to re-write Catholic theology.

But then I suppose if you cannot attack God directly, you can attack Him indirectly by seeking to falsify the teachings of His infallible Church.

But how do you do that without asserting your own contra-infallibility?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

He isn’t if he has reasons to believe it. He is if he never questions anything about whatever teaching. That happens to be the definition of blind obedience.

Because, even if they are wrong on that particular issue, that is what they are doing.

If I were the Pope and told you it was George Elliot, and you would just repeat that in a classroom, you wouldn’t be using your reason and intellect, would you?

If it IS the truth, then it isn’t any different. But you would still have to find out for yourself that it is the truth and not just accept something just like that.

If you, who have a lack of understanding of what the Church really is about, command us to ‘think for ourselves,’ what is it that you’re doing?

Or in your mind, does knee-jerk rebellion classify as deep thinking?

 

[belorg]

If you, who have a lack of understanding of what the Church really is about, command us to ‘think for ourselves,’ what is it that you’re doing?

Or in your mind, does knee-jerk rebellion classify as deep thinking?

First of all, I may have a lack of understanding of what the church is all about and part of the reason I am here is to learn more about it. However, there are Catholic theologians who say the same things I do and I doubt that they lack the understanding of what the church is all about.
And secondly: I do not command anything. If you feel comfortable not thinking for yourself, then be my guest. And if your convinction is the result of thinking for yourself, then I respect that. But if it’s just a matter of having to belive what someone else claims is true, then I reject this, mainly because it is dangerous.

And rebellion only classifies as deep thinking if it’s the result of deep thinking. Not all rebellion is the result of deep thinking, but it seems that deep thinking on this subject is forbidden fro Catholics, and that is the most saddening of all.

Are you simply venting, or do you imagine you are convincing people with these ‘arguments’ lacking in both substance and rigor and based on falsehoods?

Well, if someone has serious counter arguments, then I am all ears. But if all you can do is just assert that I am wrong without any sort of argument that actually strengthens my conviction that I am right.

originally posted by Charlemagne II
But then I suppose if you cannot attack God directly, you can attack Him indirectly by seeking to falsify the teachings of His infallible Church.

But how do you do that without asserting your own contra-infallibility?

As an atheist I do not attack God directly, because I do not think there is a God to attack directly or indirectly. I have several arguments against the existence of any sort of God, but since there is a ban on discussing atheist arguments, I won’t state them here.

But it’s easy to attack the infallibility of the Church, without asserting my own contra-infallibility. I am not infallible and no human being is, I think we all agree on this. Yet, for some reason, a body consisting of fallible human beings is asserted to be infallible. That’s just completely illogical, no need to be infallible to see that.

Now I have said all I wanted to say on this subject and I am not planning on repeating myself. Of course ,everybody is free to disagree with me. So, I am leaving this discussion.

 

[joanofarc2008]

The Catholic Theologians that make arguments make them on much different levels than you do - with a much clearer understanding of the issues at hand. Also - I think you would be hard pressed to find an actual Catholic Theologian that is both Catholic and actually a Theologian. You see in order to become a Theologian it is much more than just studying and having a degree in theology - it is actually receiving the title from Rome. So please - show me someone that you consider a Catholic Theologian who has argued in the way you have and is vetted from Rome and maybe you will earn a bit of my respect for having actually done a bit of studying instead of coming on here and just bashing? Right now it just seems as you are bashing. It also seems as you are cherry picking the arguments you will answer. Oh and I will give you a hint - someone who is an actual theologian will have letters such as STL after their name or letters like them.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

First of all, I may have a lack of understanding of what the church is all about and part of the reason I am here is to learn more about it. However, there are Catholic theologians who say the same things I do and I doubt that they lack the understanding of what the church is all about.

So, I am leaving this discussion.

So then you won’t be able to provide links to ‘theologians’ who ‘agree’ with your position?

Atheists routinely accept such facts as gravity, which they can neither see nor define. Then they refuse to accept the teachings of the Church, and look down upon those who do.

If there’s no God, then why are they making such a fuss about Him? Why aren’t they busy living and letting live?

The complete lack of intellectual rigor in their arguments against God might actually be enough to convince someone on the fence that there is indeed a God.

 

[Aramis]

Invalid matter???

Do you have a reference to that? Should be interesting reading.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, authored by His Holiness John Paul II, says the church has no authority to ordain women to the priesthood. The Church has authority to ordain men to the priesthood, and to minor orders… and while the Roman church does not ordain men to minor orders normally, it still asserts elsewhere the authority to do so.

In other places, he has been quoted as having used the exact wording “invalid matter” in defense of the proclamation Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

 

[Elizium23]

In other places, he has been quoted as having used the exact wording “invalid matter” in defense of the proclamation Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

What other places? Please provide a reference. The person being ordained is not the matter for this sacrament, he is the subject.

 

[nordskoven]

Christ atoned for the “Sin of Adam” not the “Sin of Adam & Eve.” Adam betrayed the divine grant of power and authority as steward of life. When the Woman ate the Forbidden Fruit, sin and death did not come into the world. When Adam at the Forbidden Fruit, sin and death came into the world. From that instant males only offered sacrifices, Cain and Abel, Noah, Abraham through Melchizedek the priest-king of Salem (now Jerusalem) not as garnering some privilege but as bearing the sin guilt for this gravest breach of their duty.

Woman, and through her, her Seed, received her own grant of ultimate authority when God cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed in Genesis 3:15. One may note that the abuse of women is highest in those eras when pop theology adopts Eve as the responsible party for Original Sin, the “Sin of Adam” as the New Testament calls it. Further, the pornographic priestly pedophile website, “St. Sebastian’s Angels” openly discusses their tactic for seeing that the Church sanctions openly homosexual priests: first allow married Roman Rite priests; then female priests; then surely, they believe, openly homosexual priests will be adopted.

I suggest the European model of a privileged priesthood, not the humble servant Christ intended, is the basis for any person clamoring to extend this “privilege” to females. The priesthood is a horrible burden for a gender-linked spiritual crime and is to be atoned for by the Alter Christus, not some woman like a mini-Mary offering her Son to be killed. Sorry if this forensic, legal state is not conveyed by me properly. Let me know if you have any suggestions as to how I can make it more easily understood. Women cannot atone for the “Sin of Adam.” Woman & Seed, fit us for battle against Lucifer and his minions.

 

[PiousFriend]

No. The apostles were all men.