Order meat on Thursday, now it's Friday

[dans0622]

…Since I ordered it when it wasn’t Friday and paid money for it, can I eat it without being under mortal sin?

Hello,

I don’t see how the timing of a purchase has anything to do with the abstinence requirement. Hopefully, you didn’t just order a pound of steak but also ordered something that we can eat on a Lenten Friday.

Dan

 

[Bookcat]

Of course you may
Just think about it for one second, how do you think pope Francis would’ve dealt with this predicament?

The legalism found in this thread is stunning!
If one forgot it was Friday and then ate an entire stake should he make himself throw up?
Does that make sense to you legalists?

It seems more like Pharisee approach than anything…

Absolutely NOT.

Such is a false understanding …lets not put words in the Popes mouth.

Such is the discipline of the Church set and continued by the Pope.

It is sinful to go against it.* The sin of disobedience.*

Such is not about being a ‘legalist’ …or “legalism”…

And - No such is not being like a “Pharisee approach” - what would that be? That would be stealing from widows and fasting at the same time (referring to those among the Pharisees who focused on certain aspects but ignored the greater!)

 

[Lost_Sheep]

You can’t expect me to read all the posts :

No, just mine.

 

[Belshazzar]

So, to quickly explain my dilemma, I work in a restaurant and I ordered steak. It was still Thursday. I took the food to go and went over a friend’s house for a bit. Now, it’s Friday (12:35 am) and I was wondering if I can still eat the steak I ordered. I haven’t eaten anything since two and it would be too noisy to cook anything else. Since I ordered it when it wasn’t Friday and paid money for it, can I eat it without being under mortal sin?

If you live on the east coast, hop a plane for Chicago where it is still Thursday, 11:35 PM. Act quickly now, 'cause you’ll only have 25 minutes to get there and enjoy your steak. Not feasible, eh? Hmmmm…
You could discuss your dilemma with your priest. Perhaps he’ll understand. Perhaps he’ll request a dispensation on your behalf from the local bishop. Perhaps you’ll just flap your arms and fly to the moon.
It pains me to break this to you but it would seem your best bet would be to follow the advice of everyone else here and just wait 'till tomorrow. You can’t say I didn’t try.

 

[Mintaka]

Okay… takes some deep breaths, everybody…

First off, the law of fasting is very clear, and it’s not mean or nasty. Catholics and other Christians have been abstaining every Friday of the year for almost two thousand years, as a tiny sacrifice in memory of Jesus’ sacrifices for us. We can do this.

Second, of course a person who entirely forgets about the Lenten fast on Fridays isn’t committing a mortal sin by eating a cheeseburger. Forgetfulness isn’t the same as rebellion. And no, you don’t try to throw it up or anything stupid like that. If you forget, it’s usual to do a small penance by refraining from meat on another day, or at least for a “makeup meal” on Saturday, depending on how long you forgot. But that’s not obligatory.

Third, there is a pretty big difference between “I forgot about Friday” and “I just realized it’s Friday in Lent, but I’m hungry.” The latter stinks, and we’ve all been there, but it’s just Murphy’s Law that we have that meat sitting in the fridge to make the abstinence a little more difficult.

Fourth… of course if it were really a case of “eat or die of starvation,” or “eat or go into a diabetic coma,” you would be covered by the fact that you are sick or have a health (starvation) problem, and that the Lenten fast doesn’t bind people who are sick or have health problems. (During the Middle Ages, you often saw monastery infirmarians able to prescribe meat or meat soups to their weak patients in order to build them up, and stubborn old monks being forced to be obedient and not observe the fast.)

Fifth, that steak will keep in your fridge, and it will be absolutely delicious at 12:01 AM on Saturday morning.

 

[TimothyH]

Some of you guys are pretty scrupulous.

Brother JR told the story of how he stayed at a very poor person’s house somewhere in South America. The “house” was little more than a collapsed building whose occupants lived in what was left of the basement.

It was Friday and the woman cooked Chicken. It was all she had. She was so grateful that a holy man had come to stay with her and help her community that she cooked what was an extravagant and very expensive meal.

Brother ate the Chicken. Charity demanded that he do so. I get the feeling that some of you would have insulted the woman if put in Brother’s place.

35 minutes is scrupulousness. No wonder non-Catholics call Catholicism the religion of guilt. Guy made a mistake. He didn’t do it on purpose.

-Tim-

 

[Mintaka]

Eating the food you are served while visiting, as long as it’s not being served in contempt for Catholicism, is actually mentioned in official lists of exceptions to the law of fasting and abstinence.

Like I said - if you are literally going to collapse if you don’t eat something, and you literally have no other food in the house that is Lent-compatible (or if you will collapse before you manage to get a bite of the Lenten food prepared), the Lenten fast regulations do not bind you.

If you aren’t in that dire of a situation, the Church expects you to be a little resourceful.

Look, people. There are tons of exceptions already. There are exceptions for those doing strenuous work, and “strenuous work” is defined very generously. There are exceptions for people who face hardship keeping the Lenten regulations. There are exceptions for sickness and age and all sorts of other things, and there are even a few semi-aquatic birds and mammals which were generously defined as not being red meat for fasting purposes, in order to help local people who lived in unusual or harsh environments.

Personally, I have a lot of trouble keeping the fast, because I do have health problems that manifest if I don’t eat a certain amount of food at certain times. This teaches me humility every year, and I make that my fast whenever my planning proves insufficient. But since I can abstain, I do.

But at some point, there is a line. Are you going to fast and abstain? Or are you not? And if you can’t fast, are you going to be able to abstain at all? Make a plan and try to stick to it. If you can’t stick to it, be ready to do penance in other ways. But also try to be a little resourceful. There are lots of foods that are fine for Lent and will fill your belly.

 

[Belshazzar]

If you live on the east coast, hop a plane to Chicago where it is still Thursday, 11:35 PM. Act quickly, 'cause you only have 25 minutes to buy your ticket, board the plane and cross the EST zone to where you can then enjoy your steak in peace. Not feasible, eh? Hmmmm…

You could discuss your dilemma with your priest. Perhaps he’ll be sympathetic. Perhaps he’ll request a dispensation on your behalf from the local bishop. Perhaps the bishop hasn’t nodded off to sleep just yet. Perhaps you’ll just flap your arms and fly to the moon.

It seems to me your best bet would be to just take your steak home and save it 'till Saturday. You can’t say I didn’t try.

 

[twf]

Some of you guys are pretty scrupulous.

Brother JR told the story of how he stayed at a very poor person’s house somewhere in South America. The “house” was little more than a collapsed building whose occupants lived in what was left of the basement.

It was Friday and the woman cooked Chicken. It was all she had. She was so grateful that a holy man had come to stay with her and help her community that she cooked what was an extravagant and very expensive meal.

Brother ate the Chicken. Charity demanded that he do so. I get the feeling that some of you would have insulted the woman if put in Brother’s place.

35 minutes is scrupulousness. No wonder non-Catholics call Catholicism the religion of guilt. Guy made a mistake. He didn’t do it on purpose.

-Tim-

Very different scenarios. Not offending a humble host is quite different from the OP’s situation. The OP realizes it is Friday and sees steak before him. He now has a choice to make. Knowing that It is Friday, does he deliberately break the law of abstinence, or does he make the sacrifice the Church asks of him and have the steak on Saturday? If he struggled to maintain a regular diet and had no access to a fridge, it would be a different story.
It also depends where you happen to be in the world. I don’t know what the law is in the South American country in your story. Here in Canada we always have the option to substitute abstinence with some other form of penance even on the Fridays of Lent (Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are always obligatory days of fasting and abstinence of course). For most of Church history we were asked to fast every weekday of Lent. The modern rules are so relaxed as it is that it has become an ecumenical stumbling block for our Eastern brothers and sisters. The Orthodox are still asked to fast from all meat, fish, oil, wine, and dairy every singke day of Lent (and every Wednesday and Friday during the year). My Orthodox relatives do so with great joy. On this board every Friday there’s someone justifying a loophole for avoiding the tiny token of fasting still binding in the Latin Church. Where do we draw the line? If I happen to have some extra meat in the fridge eat it because it’s there?

 

[Bookcat]

Some of you guys are pretty scrupulous.

35 minutes is scrupulousness. No wonder non-Catholics call Catholicism the religion of guilt. Guy made a mistake. He didn’t do it on purpose.

-Tim-

No - it is* not** scrupulosity *to note the truth about the matter.

Saying it is so does not make it so.

I have over the years worked with a number of persons helping them with actual scruples - this is not such. Such is not being scrupulous. Period.

As to it being a mistake - sure mistakes happen. But once one realizes the mistake one then does not continue it.

A mistake is eating meat without remembering it is Friday. That is a mistake. Just an accident.

The mistake of a person ordering meat - well that is sure a mistake too -but it is a not a mistake to if a person then goes and eats the meat knowingly.

That is a sin. The sin of disobedience.

If the person having made the mistake of ordering the meat - then ate it knowingly - that is something done “on purpose”. A sin.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Closed Pending review by moderator Thomas Casey