Orders (or lack thereof) in the East

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

From what I understand, the East never saw the rise of orders such as they exist in the West (e.g., Franciscans, Jesuits, Carmelites, etc). You are either, if a male, a deacon/priest or a monk (though some monks can be priests). Each monastic community has it’s own rule. Does any one know why in the West things went the way they did and we ended up with so many orders, and even among these we have “active” and “contemplative”? I’d really like to understand why the apparent rift. Thanks in advance!

 

[bpbasilphx]

There are two quasi-orders in Greece: SOTER (Savior) and APOSOTLIKI DIAKONIA.

St. Elizabeth the New Martyr (former Grand Duchess of Russia and a convert to Orthodoxy) founded the Martha-Mary Convent of Mercy dedicated to home health care among the poor of Moscow and other active works of mercy. She and (before it was closed by the Communists) nearly 100 other sisters were tonsured NOT as nuns, but as “Stavrophore Sisters of Charity” in a special rite composed by the Holy Synod. If you look at photographs and icons, they are NOT wearing the habit of a Russian Orthodox nun.

Consecrated life takes different forms, according to the needs and spiritual traditions of a given Church.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

There are Western orders with an Eastern branch.

As well as there being many bi-ritual priests within Western orders.

 

[bkovacs]

There are Western orders with an Eastern branch.

As well as there being many bi-ritual priests within Western orders.

Yeah called “Latinizations”. No different than Byzantine Franciscans. If you want to see pure Eastern Byzantine Religious Orders than you need to go to Mount Athos, or the various Orthodox Monasteries for men/woman.

 

[KyivAndrew]

From what I understand, the East never saw the rise of orders such as they exist in the West (e.g., Franciscans, Jesuits, Carmelites, etc). You are either, if a male, a deacon/priest or a monk (though some monks can be priests). Each monastic community has it’s own rule. Does any one know why in the West things went the way they did and we ended up with so many orders, and even among these we have “active” and “contemplative”? I’d really like to understand why the apparent rift. Thanks in advance!

Not too far from where I live there was a Ukrainian Catholic Studite Monastery. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studite_Brethren

There is also the Order of St. Basil for Ukrainian Catholics who ran quite the printing press from where I am from in Canada. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Basil_the_Great

There are also the Ukrainian Sisters Servant of Mary Immaculate. see
theinterchange.ca/Organizations/sisters_servants_of_mary_immaculate.php
ssmi-us.org/

From CNEWA: “There are several religious orders of women and men in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. Male religious orders include the Basilian Order of Saint Josaphat, the Studites, and Ukrainian provinces of the Redemptorists, Salesians and Miles Jesu. The women’s communities are the Sisters of the Order of St Basil the Great, the Sister Servants of Mary Immaculate, the Sisters of St Joseph Spouse of the Virgin Mary, the Sister Catechists of St. Anne, the Sisters of the Holy Family, the Sisters of the Priest and Martyr St. Josaphat Kuntsevych, Sisters of the Most Holy Eucharist, and the Myrrh-Bearing Sisters Under the Protection of St. Mary Magdalene, as well as Ukrainian Provinces of Salesian and Vincentian sisters. Altogether there were 374 religious priests, 367 brothers, and 1,476 women religious serving the church worldwide in 2006.”

cnewa.org/ecc-bodypg-us.aspx?eccpageID=69&IndexView=toc

Don’t know if this clarifies what you were seeking.

 

[Ora_et_Labora_1]

I was talking with a friend of mine and he mentioned that Eastern ecclesiology differs from Western, that this difference may have influenced the development of Orders in the West. A page for a Basilian monastery in Italy I later found seems to give creedence to this.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Yeah called “Latinizations”. No different than Byzantine Franciscans. If you want to see pure Eastern Byzantine Religious Orders than you need to go to Mount Athos, or the various Orthodox Monasteries for men/woman.

Bi-ritual priests are not a latinizations. I know many who are good Byzantine priests.

A western order that has a byzantine group is also not a latinization unless that group is pushing such a thing which I do not believe that they are.

The Orthodox Monasteries are not “orders” in the sense of what orders are in the Western Church. An Orthodox Monastery is under the jurisdiction of the local ordinary.

Mount Athos is a special case and not applicable to the Byzantine Catholic Churches.

 

[Formosus]

If you look at the growth of religious communities in east and west, you will see one striking similarity in development. The Benedictines, while more centralized today then they originally existed, are in essence structured like Byzantine monasteries. The difference mainly consists in the quasi centralization brought in with the introduction of congregations in more modern times. Before that , though, both individual benedictine monasteries and individual byzantine monasteries operated (in relation to other monasteries) very similarly.

 

[bpbasilphx]

If you want to see pure Eastern Byzantine Religious Orders than you need to go to Mount Athos, or the various Orthodox Monasteries for men/woman.

With the exception of the Monasteries of the Holy Resurrection (men) and Holy Theophany (women) in the Romanian Catholic Eparchy of St. George of Canton.

The Orthodox Monasteries are not “orders” in the sense of what orders are in the Western Church. An Orthodox Monastery is under the jurisdiction of the local ordinary.

Except for those that are stavropighial, which are directly under the jurisdiction of the primate of the local Orthodox Church.

 

[Harpazo]

I, myself, am glad that there are not a billion “orders” in the East. It makes it easier when a monk is just a monk. That’s only my opinion though.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I, myself, am glad that there are not a billion “orders” in the East. It makes it easier when a monk is just a monk. That’s only my opinion though.

In Christ,
Andrew

There are not a “billion” of orders in the West either.

Also it is the rule that makes the monk, what does it matter if there are different rules?

 

[malphono]

I, myself, am glad that there are not a billion “orders” in the East. It makes it easier when a monk is just a monk. That’s only my opinion though.

Among the Maronites there are 3 monastic orders, all of 3 of which are of Pontifical Right, and each has slightly different focus.

Up until the 18th century, Maronite monasteries were all independent, but there are valid reasons (which I will not go into here) for the formation of the Orders and particularly for Pontifical Right. That said, it still does not change the fact that monks are indeed simply monks: men join one or another of the Orders because of its particular focus.

 

[gmcbroom]

When you say Pontifical Right does that mean that they are strictly under the Popes governance? Or do local bishops control them? Or does that mean that as they are Maronites that the Maronite Patriarch controls them? So many questions…

 

[Harpazo]

There are not a “billion” of orders in the West either.

Also it is the rule that makes the monk, what does it matter if there are different rules?

I’m aware that there are not a “billion” orders. I was exaggerating. I just don’t understand why there needs to be such a copious amount of orders in the Latin Church. Why the need for “diversity of charisms?” Isn’t there only one Holy Spirit? I do know that He gives certain gifts to people and certain to another, but it just gets ridiculous, IMHO, when you have orders budding off of others ad infinitum. The Franciscans are an example.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Catholics, but as I said earlier, I like it when a monk can be a monk. No need for a flashy name or social charism (I know that there are orders that are mainly contemplative), just a simple monk.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Harpazo]

When you say Pontifical Right does that mean that they are strictly under the Popes governance? Or do local bishops control them? Or does that mean that as they are Maronites that the Maronite Patriarch controls them? So many questions…

I believe that His Beatitude (I think that’s the correct title for the Maronite Patriarch) Nasrallah Peter would (in theory) have them under his authority since it would be in Patriarchal territory. However, I could be wrong. Since they are in Lebanon, then they should be under Patriarch Nasrallah’s jurisdiction, but history has shown that Rome can and will do otherwise when given the opportunity.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Formosus]

I’m aware that there are not a “billion” orders. I was exaggerating. I just don’t understand why there needs to be such a copious amount of orders in the Latin Church. Why the need for “diversity of charisms?” Isn’t there only one Holy Spirit? I do know that He gives certain gifts to people and certain to another, but it just gets ridiculous, IMHO, when you have orders budding off of others ad infinitum. The Franciscans are an example.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Catholics, but as I said earlier, I like it when a monk can be a monk. No need for a flashy name or social charism (I know that there are orders that are mainly contemplative), just a simple monk.

In Christ,
Andrew

The budding off is not really all that different then particular monastics leaving a corrupt monastery to either live in solitude or found a skete. The holiness attracts people to join him and then all of a sudden you have another big monastery! This happened to St. Sergii Radonezhsky twice. There are so many first order Franciscan orders because people became disappointed by corruption at the time, bringing about reform movements that led to new orders. Its not all that different then what happened with St. Sergios.

 

[Wildkit]

There are not a “billion” of orders in the West either.

Also it is the rule that makes the monk, what does it matter if there are different rules?

Amen.

Yet I love when someone questions why one “dots an i, or crosses a tee left to right, versus right to left”.

Is one better off with the undeniable truth? What does it matter if one has a specific mission as exemplified?

 

[Harpazo]

The budding off is not really all that different then particular monastics leaving a corrupt monastery to either live in solitude or found a skete. The holiness attracts people to join him and then all of a sudden you have another big monastery! This happened to St. Sergii Radonezhsky twice. There are so many first order Franciscan orders because people became disappointed by corruption at the time, bringing about reform movements that led to new orders. Its not all that different then what happened with St. Sergios.

I’m not talking about there just being one huge monastery. I just find it odd that there are all of these reform movements when the Latins talk all about “reforming from within” when blaming Martin Luther for not giving the Church of Rome another chance.

In regards to St. Sergius of Radonezh, I don’t think he and others started completely new orders, did they? Their isn’t really a concept of monastic orders in the East, per se.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Formosus]

No he didn’t found a new order, I was just pointing out that it wasn’t entirely different then some Eastern practices. Infact the first order really founded aside from the Benedictines in the west, were the cistercians. So that would be a similar analogy since the Holy Fathers of the Cistercian order originally did try to start with one monastery.

 

[Aramis]

When you say Pontifical Right does that mean that they are strictly under the Popes governance? Or do local bishops control them? Or does that mean that as they are Maronites that the Maronite Patriarch controls them? So many questions…

Pontifical Right Orders are exempt from all local hierarchs oversight within the context of their internal function.

To function outside their grounds, however, they require faculties from the local ordinary.

To establish new houses they require either papal or local ordinary permission. In some cases, papal right orders have established houses at papal request in areas where local clerics were of questionable virtue, and/or been granted extraordinary faculties by papal mandate (the case I am thinking of specifically is SW france, a Dominican friary was granted inquisitorial authority specifically to investigate the local ordinary and his clerics).

Generally, they go where they are asked to go, to do that which is their charism. When granted faculties from the local ordinary, those faculties can be revoked, but the order itself, and their house and its grounds are, by virtue of papal right, outside of local ordinary control, but under the ordinary who is a member of that order.