Ordinaries, Propers and Things

[TrueLight]

I’ve been wanting to ask this for a while and didn’t know where to ask it. I feel like it is basic, but I don’t exactly have a grasp of it.

What exactly are ordinaries? Are there attributes of ordinaries that would allow me to identify them? What is the opposite of ordinary?

What are propers, like for example “Propers of the Saints”?

Which are said/sung by the laity, servers, priests or all three?

Hopefully this thread will clear things up for me and anybody else who is wondering.

Thanks!

 

[MarkThompson]

I’ve been wanting to ask this for a while and didn’t know where to ask it. I feel like it is basic, but I don’t exactly have a grasp of it.

What exactly are ordinaries? Are there attributes of ordinaries that would allow me to identify them? What is the opposite of ordinary?

The word “ordinary” refers to the bishop who is in charge of a diocese. It thus distinguishes him from auxiliary or coadjutor bishops, as well as from bishops who might work for the curia as apostolic nuncios, auditors of the Roman Rota, secretaries of congregations, and so on. The ordinary is the guy that gets inserted in the blank by priests celebrating Mass in his diocese: “Together with Benedict our Pope, _____ our bishop . . . .”

There are a very few non-bishop ordinaries. An abbot of a territorial abbey (called an abbey nullius) is the ordinary of that territory, and the bishop of the surrounding diocese has no authority at all there. He would almost never be a bishop. Today, there are very few abbeys nullius, though they used to be more common in the days of powerful abbots and wealthy monastic communities. Also, the head of the new Anglican Ordinariate, Msgr. Keith Newton, has been given the powers of an ordinary, as well as granted the use of pontificals, although he is not a bishop. (He was a bishop of the Anglican church, though of course those orders are invalid.) I don’t know if he will be mentioned in the Una cum in Masses of the Ordinariate, though I suspect not because you could not call him “Keith our bishop.”

What are propers, like for example “Propers of the Saints”?

“Propers” are the various prayers (Collect, Secret, etc.) and other things (Introit, Gradual, etc.; arguably the readings can be considered propers) that generally change from day to day rather than remaining constant or just being omitted in Lent or something like that. So the “Proper of Saints” is the collection of prayers and antiphons that you would insert into the Mass if you were celebrating the Mass of a particular saint who is listed. Not all saints have their own propers; in fact most don’t, which is why there is also the Common of Saints. The Commons are collections of propers organized not for individual saints but for classes, like Popes, Martyrs, Popes and Martyrs, Virgins, and so on. So if you are celebrating Mass on the feast of St. X, first you check to see if he is listed by name on his feast day in the Proprium Sanctorum, and if not, then you determine what class he falls into and use the appropriate proper from the Commune Sanctorum – if he falls into several classes, you may pick one at your pleasure.

Which are said/sung by the laity, servers, priests or all three?

I will assume you are asking about the EF here. The answer is that the prayers (Collect, Secret, etc.) are said by the priest only; the musical parts (Introit, Gradual, Tract, Offertory, etc.) are said by the priest and, if it is a sung Mass, sung by the choir. Since propers change from day to day, no congregation could ever learn them.

 

[929dad]

I’ve been wanting to ask this for a while and didn’t know where to ask it. I feel like it is basic, but I don’t exactly have a grasp of it.

What exactly are ordinaries? Are there attributes of ordinaries that would allow me to identify them? What is the opposite of ordinary?

What are propers, like for example “Propers of the Saints”?

Which are said/sung by the laity, servers, priests or all three?

Hopefully this thread will clear things up for me and anybody else who is wondering.

Thanks!

Ordinaries are (Arch)Bishops who are in charge of a particular (Arch)diocese. For example, Archbishop Timothy Dolan is the Ordinary of the Archdiocese of New York.

I’ll let someone give you a better answer on the propers.

Your third question needs more clarity. Are you talking about things that are done during Mass?

 

[Chatter163]

I suspect that the OP is asking about the Ordinary of the Mass, which are the non-changing parts, especially those that are sung by choir and/or congregation, such as the *Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus/Benedictus *and Agnus Dei.

 

[TrueLight]

I suspect that the OP is asking about the Ordinary of the Mass, which are the non-changing parts, especially those that are sung by choir and/or congregation, such as the *Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus/Benedictus *and Agnus Dei.

Yeah. That’s what I was asking about. I didn’t know “ordinary” could refer to a person as well.

 

[MarkThompson]

I suspect that the OP is asking about the Ordinary of the Mass, which are the non-changing parts, especially those that are sung by choir and/or congregation, such as the *Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus/Benedictus *and Agnus Dei.

Lol. :doh2:

No wonder they seemed like such unrelated questions.

In that case, I will say that the term Ordinary of the Mass is generally used to refer to the parts you mentioned (the Ite missa est is sometimes included), and that whether or not the congregation sings them depends heavily on local customs, what the congregation feels like, how many “grumpy trads” versus non-grumpy people there are (grumpy people will give you the stink-eye if you try to sing), what the priest prefers having people do, national sensibilities (the Irish are famously zip-lipped), whether the schola is good enough that people will feel bad about drowning them out, and so on. Going to the EF is rather like a box of chocolates, let’s put it that way.

 

[TrueLight]

The word “ordinary” refers to the bishop who is in charge of a diocese. It thus distinguishes him from auxiliary or coadjutor bishops, as well as from bishops who might work for the curia as apostolic nuncios, auditors of the Roman Rota, secretaries of congregations, and so on. The ordinary is the guy that gets inserted in the blank by priests celebrating Mass in his diocese: “Together with Benedict our Pope, _____ our bishop . . . .”

There are a very few non-bishop ordinaries. An abbot of a territorial abbey (called an abbey nullius) is the ordinary of that territory, and the bishop of the surrounding diocese has no authority at all there. He would almost never be a bishop. Today, there are very few abbeys nullius, though they used to be more common in the days of powerful abbots and wealthy monastic communities. Also, the head of the new Anglican Ordinariate, Msgr. Keith Newton, has been given the powers of an ordinary, as well as granted the use of pontificals, although he is not a bishop. (He was a bishop of the Anglican church, though of course those orders are invalid.) I don’t know if he will be mentioned in the Una cum in Masses of the Ordinariate, though I suspect not because you could not call him “Keith our bishop.”

“Propers” are the various prayers (Collect, Secret, etc.) and other things (Introit, Gradual, etc.; arguably the readings can be considered propers) that generally change from day to day rather than remaining constant or just being omitted in Lent or something like that. So the “Proper of Saints” is the collection of prayers and antiphons that you would insert into the Mass if you were celebrating the Mass of a particular saint who is listed. Not all saints have their own propers; in fact most don’t, which is why there is also the Common of Saints. The Commons are collections of propers organized not for individual saints but for classes, like Popes, Martyrs, Popes and Martyrs, Virgins, and so on. So if you are celebrating Mass on the feast of St. X, first you check to see if he is listed by name on his feast day in the Proprium Sanctorum, and if not, then you determine what class he falls into and use the appropriate proper from the Commune Sanctorum – if he falls into several classes, you may pick one at your pleasure.

I will assume you are asking about the EF here. The answer is that the prayers (Collect, Secret, etc.) are said by the priest only; the musical parts (Introit, Gradual, Tract, Offertory, etc.) are said by the priest and, if it is a sung Mass, sung by the choir. Since propers change from day to day, no congregation could ever learn them.

Thanks for this comprehensive explanation.

So whenever I go to a mass, the musical parts are based on the propers for that day? Does the music director have leeway in terms of the musical selection or does he have to follow the “propers?”. This question is for both the EF and OF.

I’m

 

[TrueLight]

I suspect that the OP is asking about the Ordinary of the Mass, which are the non-changing parts, especially those that are sung by choir and/or congregation, such as the *Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus/Benedictus *and Agnus Dei.

So the propers would include things like the Introit that can change?

 

[MarkThompson]

Thanks for this comprehensive explanation.

So whenever I go to a mass, the musical parts are based on the propers for that day? Does the music director have leeway in terms of the musical selection or does he have to follow the “propers?”. This question is for both the EF and OF.

I’m

For the EF:

The only options are for everything to be done musically, or nothing. There is nothing “based on” the Propers; the musical parts either are the Propers (Introit, Gradual, etc.), or else they are the Ordinary (Gloria, Credo, etc., as Chatter mentioned). (There are also parts reserved to the priest like the Pater Noster, which I’ll omit from consideration). Yes, there are choices. Nothing (except good taste) prohibits singing these to any melody you like. For instance, you might have the Propers chanted by a Gregorian schola, and the Ordinary sung by a different choir to a polyphonic setting by Palestrina. Or you can have the Ordinary chanted by a choir to the Gregorian melody of your choosing, and hustle through the Propers by singing them to a psalm tone – e.g., using the “Rossini Propers,” which were very popular before the Council among congregations that either could not field a suitable Gregorian schola, or got bored sitting through interminable tracts and graduals and wanted to hurry things along. Or, if you cared to, you could sing polyphonic Propers (these have been composed for many feasts), and chant the Ordinary recto tono. And you can break things up more finely, too; for instance, singing a polyphonic Kyrie and Agnus Dei, but using Gregorian chant for the other parts of the Ordinary (polyphonic Credos are generally super-long; some composers don’t even bother setting it). It’s whatever you feel like. If Marty Haugen wrote a Latin Gloria, you could in theory sing it (assuming you would not be tarred and feathered).

The major exceptions to the above are:

1. Additional motets (i.e., songs) can be sung during Communion. If it is a sung Mass, additional music must be in Latin. Also, nothing prevents singing a recessional hymn (in Latin or the vernacular), since the Mass is technically over by this point.
2. At a said Mass, it used to be extremely common (varying by country; for example, especially popular in Germany) to sing vernacular hymns during the Mass. Since the Mass was mostly silent and inaudible, people would sing an Entrance Hymn, Offertory Hymn, and so on, just as is now customary in the OF (that is where it came from). Or for another example of a musical tradition, you can read the very good Wikipedia article on the Deutsche Singmesse.

For the OF:

To provide a comprehensive list of options would be very time-consuming. Suffice it to say that the Propers are very rarely used, though they are of course permitted; and that the Ordinary is generally sung (Gloria, Agnus Dei) or spoken (Kyrie, Credo) by the congregation.

 

[MarkThompson]

So the propers would include things like the Introit that can change?

Yes. The musical propers are: 1. Introit, 2. Gradual (or Alleluia in Paschal time), 3. Alleluia (or Tract within Septuagesima), 3b. Sequence (when applicable), 4. Offertory, and 5. Communion.

I consider myself a very proper person, so in my sig is the Communion from Ash Wednesday.

 

[Chatter163]

So the propers would include things like the Introit that can change?

Correct. The propers are the introit, collect, epistle, gradual and Alleluia (or tract, during Lent), gospel, offertory antiphon, secret, and communion antiphon–the things that you see in your missal for each Mass. The ordinary is everything else.

So whenever I go to a mass, the musical parts are based on the propers for that day? Does the music director have leeway in terms of the musical selection or does he have to follow the “propers?”. This question is for both the EF and OF. I’m

I am not entirely sure what you are asking here, but I will try to respond. Typically there is a Mass setting, chosen by either the leader of the schola or choir, or possibly the priest–if the schola and choir can sing them. The Mass setting is either Gregorian chant or polyphony, and generally impacts the K*yrie, Gloria, Sanctus/Benedictus and Agnus Dei; *the *Credo *has its own settings. The chant settings come from the Roman liturgical books, including the Liber Usualis and the Graduale, and each setting typically has a number and/or names. The most common settings include *Missa de Angelis, Missa Orbis Factor *and Missa cum Jubilo. Most regular attendees of the EF are familiar with these and can sing them fairly easily by ear.

If the setting is polylphonic, this usually means that the above parts are sung in classical settings, ranging from fairly simple to quite elaborate, with different harmonies for different singers. These are only done by the choir, and include works by Moazart, Schubert, Vivaldi, Hassler, Byrd, et al. When a polyphonic Mass is used, the other propers (introit, gradual, offertory and communion antiphons are usually still chanted by the schola, according to the Gregorian melodies given in the liturgical books. However, for a few feasts there are actually also polyphonic pieces for these, as well; these are rarely heard due to the complexity of the pieces, as well as the time involved.

 

[TrueLight]

For the EF:

The only options are for everything to be done musically, or nothing. There is nothing “based on” the Propers; the musical parts either are the Propers (Introit, Gradual, etc.), or else they are the Ordinary (Gloria, Credo, etc., as Chatter mentioned). (There are also parts reserved to the priest like the Pater Noster, which I’ll omit from consideration). Yes, there are choices. Nothing (except good taste) prohibits singing these to any melody you like. For instance, you might have the Propers chanted by a Gregorian schola, and the Ordinary sung by a different choir to a polyphonic setting by Palestrina. Or you can have the Ordinary chanted by a choir to the Gregorian melody of your choosing, and hustle through the Propers by singing them to a psalm tone – e.g., using the “Rossini Propers,” which were very popular before the Council among congregations that either could not field a suitable Gregorian schola, or got bored sitting through interminable tracts and graduals and wanted to hurry things along. Or, if you cared to, you could sing polyphonic Propers (these have been composed for many feasts), and chant the Ordinary recto tono. And you can break things up more finely, too; for instance, singing a polyphonic Kyrie and Agnus Dei, but using Gregorian chant for the other parts of the Ordinary (polyphonic Credos are generally super-long; some composers don’t even bother setting it). It’s whatever you feel like. If Marty Haugen wrote a Latin Gloria, you could in theory sing it (assuming you would not be tarred and feathered).

The major exceptions to the above are:

1. Additional motets (i.e., songs) can be sung during Communion. If it is a sung Mass, additional music must be in Latin. Also, nothing prevents singing a recessional hymn (in Latin or the vernacular), since the Mass is technically over by this point.
2. At a said Mass, it used to be extremely common (varying by country; for example, especially popular in Germany) to sing vernacular hymns during the Mass. Since the Mass was mostly silent and inaudible, people would sing an Entrance Hymn, Offertory Hymn, and so on, just as is now customary in the OF (that is where it came from). Or for another example of a musical tradition, you can read the very good Wikipedia article on the Deutsche Singmesse.

For the OF:

To provide a comprehensive list of options would be very time-consuming. Suffice it to say that the Propers are very rarely used, though they are of course permitted; and that the Ordinary is generally sung (Gloria, Agnus Dei) or spoken (Kyrie, Credo) by the congregation.

Awesome. Thanks for breaking it down.

Thanks to all who replied.

 

[TrueLight]

Correct. The propers are the introit, collect, epistle, gradual and Alleluia (or tract, during Lent), gospel, offertory antiphon, secret, and communion antiphon–the things that you see in your missal for each Mass. The ordinary is everything else.

I am not entirely sure what you are asking here, but I will try to respond. Typically there is a Mass setting, chosen by either the leader of the schola or choir, or possibly the priest–if the schola and choir can sing them. The Mass setting is either Gregorian chant or polyphony, and generally impacts the K*yrie, Gloria, Sanctus/Benedictus and Agnus Dei; *the *Credo *has its own settings. The chant settings come from the Roman liturgical books, including the Liber Usualis and the Graduale, and each setting typically has a number and/or names. The most common settings include *Missa de Angelis, Missa Orbis Factor *and Missa cum Jubilo. Most regular attendees of the EF are familiar with these and can sing them fairly easily by ear.

If the setting is polylphonic, this usually means that the above parts are sung in classical settings, ranging from fairly simple to quite elaborate, with different harmonies for different singers. These are only done by the choir, and include works by Moazart, Schubert, Vivaldi, Hassler, Byrd, et al. When a polyphonic Mass is used, the other propers (introit, gradual, offertory and communion antiphons are usually still chanted by the schola, according to the Gregorian melodies given in the liturgical books. However, for a few feasts there are actually also polyphonic pieces for these, as well; these are rarely heard due to the complexity of the pieces, as well as the time involved.

Thank you!

 

[TrueLight]

Warning: Answering the following question might involve looking into the missal.

Today I attended an EF. I have the Angelus Press 1962 Missal.

So I turned to June 15th on page 1240 (Commemoration of St. Vitus, Modestus and Crescentia.)

The Epistle was supposed to be on page 952 (Intret of Several Martyrs.)
The Gospel should have been on page 1390.

None of the readings matched what the preach was reading.

Where did I go wrong?

I did hear him say during the homily that it was an Ember Day. Is that where I went wrong?

Are there Ember “propers” somewhere in the missal?

 

[MarkThompson]

Warning: Answering the following question might involve looking into the missal.

Today I attended an EF. I have the Angelus Press 1962 Missal.

So I turned to June 15th on page 1240 (Commemoration of St. Vitus, Modestus and Crescentia.)

The Epistle was supposed to be on page 952 (Intret of Several Martyrs.)
The Gospel should have been on page 1390.

None of the readings matched what the preach was reading.

Where did I go wrong?

I did hear him say during the homily that it was an Ember Day. Is that where I went wrong?

Are there Ember “propers” somewhere in the missal?

Today was Wednesday within the Octave of Pentecost. You will find it in the appropriate place in the Proprium de Tempore, with the introit Deus, dum egredereris.

 

[TrueLight]

Today was Wednesday within the Octave of Pentecost. You will find it in the appropriate place in the Proprium de Tempore, with the introit Deus, dum egredereris.

It’s weird. I open up my missal and I land right on “Ember Wednesday After Pentecost”. And I see the readings.

So basically, I have to know where we are in the calendar in terms of special feasts/days etc.

Thanks.

 

[MarkThompson]

So basically, I have to know where we are in the calendar in terms of special feasts/days etc.

That’s what the ribbons are for. You keep one at the current location in the Proper of Time and one at the current location in the Proper of Saints, and then when you go to hear Mass on any given day you must simply determine the priority of any celebrations that might fall on that day. Generally, a published yearly liturgical calendar will tell you this. (Of course, if it’s a day on which a votive Mass or something is permitted then all bets are off.)

 

[TrueLight]

That’s what the ribbons are for. You keep one at the current location in the Proper of Time and one at the current location in the Proper of Saints, and then when you go to hear Mass on any given

Hmm. I usually keep one ribbon at the order of the mass, one on the page where the Gospel is, one on the page where the Epistle is and if it is a Sunday, one in the back where the Credo musical notations are. Ha ha.

day you must simply determine the priority of any celebrations that might fall on that day. Generally, a published yearly liturgical calendar will tell you this. (Of course, if it’s a day on which a votive Mass or something is permitted then all bets are off.)

I found the Liturgical Calendar for the U.S.

 

[Spirithound]

I’ve been wanting to ask this for a while and didn’t know where to ask it. I feel like it is basic, but I don’t exactly have a grasp of it.

What exactly are ordinaries? Are there attributes of ordinaries that would allow me to identify them? What is the opposite of ordinary?

If I may be off-topic for a bit… “Ordinary” can also refer to the seasons of “Ordinary Time”. The implication was not meant to be “Time as usual,” although this may seem the case since Ordinary Time is that time that is not Advent, Christmas, Lent, or Easter. Rather, “ordinary” means “Numbered Time”, as in “ordinal numbers”.

“Ordinary,” in the rubrical sense, often refers to the actual words that do not change, as other posters have mentioned, but it also refers to the form of the liturgy, that is, naming the parts that are supplied by the Propers in a general way. For example, the Liturgy of the Hours also has an Ordinary, in the same sense that the Mass has an Ordinary. The Ordinary for Morning Prayer consists of two Psalms and a Canticle along with antiphons, a reading, a short responsorial verse, the Canticle of Zechariah with an antiphon, Prayers of the Faithful, the Lord’s Prayer, and a closing prayer.

 

[TrueLight]

If I may be off-topic for a bit… “Ordinary” can also refer to the seasons of “Ordinary Time”. The implication was not meant to be “Time as usual,” although this may seem the case since Ordinary Time is that time that is not Advent, Christmas, Lent, or Easter. Rather, “ordinary” means “Numbered Time”, as in “ordinal numbers”.

“Ordinary,” in the rubrical sense, often refers to the actual words that do not change, as other posters have mentioned, but it also refers to the form of the liturgy, that is, naming the parts that are supplied by the Propers in a general way. For example, the Liturgy of the Hours also has an Ordinary, in the same sense that the Mass has an Ordinary. The Ordinary for Morning Prayer consists of two Psalms and a Canticle along with antiphons, a reading, a short responsorial verse, the Canticle of Zechariah with an antiphon, Prayers of the Faithful, the Lord’s Prayer, and a closing prayer.

Thanks for this added bit of info.