I would agree, we had three auxillary bishops in Detroit that said that Mass occasionally. They have all been made Ordinaries of their own diocese since.
How?
A simple priest cannot confer Holy Orders, and IIRC in the Latin Rite, the rite of ordination itself takes place before the Canon. The newly ordained then concelebrates with the bishop. Ergo, it seems to me that the bishop must be the celebrant.You are correct. I don’t believe Mass in the presence of a bishop is possible for ordinations. I believe the bishop must be the main celebrant.How?
Mass in the Presence of a Bishop (actually I think it is called Mass in the Presence of a Major Prelate) when conferring another sacrament is when a priest and deacon and subdeacon celebrate the Mass itself, but the bishop offers the other sacrament, like confirmation.How?
IIRC, it’s called “missa coram episcopo” but yes, I know.
That’s exactly what I meant. And precisely because the newly ordained concelebrates the rest of the Mass (i.e, the Eucharistic part) with the ordaining bishop.
There are huge differences between a Missa Cantata and a Pontifical Solemn High Mass. In addition to the sacred ministers and servers needed for a Solemn Mass in the EF, there are two deacons of honor at the throne, and each has very precise tasks, such as who puts on the gloves (both do), the pontifical bushkins, the gremiale, etc. There is also an archpriest in cope, who has very specific duties, some of which are normally the subdeacon’s and some that are normally the MC’s. There is a second MC, and four attendants to the bishop (carry the bugia, crozier, mitre and pontifical canon). There are special rituals for the entrance of the bishop, and his vesting in the sanctuary. There are two different mitres used in the course of the Mass, and the Blessed Sacrament is normally removed from the tabernacle before the start of Mass. Much of the Mass is conducted from the pontifical throne, rather than at the altar. The bishop processes ceremonially from throne to altar, and back. There are many people involved in the sanctuary–much more complex than even a Solemn Mass, let alone a Missa Cantata.
The new priest concelebrates with the celebrant. I am unaware of any actual requirement that it be the bishop himself if the bishop is sitting in choir.
Yeah. but my point is, if you have people read and willing, especially a bishop, getting all this together doesn’t seem like it would be particularly difficult. “Pontifical Mass is too hard” seems a bit short-sighted of an argument, although I’m not saying someone argued that =p.
And, as I mentioned, several bishops in Detroit said Pontifical Solemn High Masses. So we have a few parishes that are ‘equipped’ to hold them ( with the necessary additional equipment and clergy)
No, it is not just whining; that is a misperception of your youthful inexperience in such things. I have been involved with such liturgies for many, many years. Gathering the necessary trained personnel, materials needed, and hours of rehearsal is a very difficult thing, primarily because everyone has other responsibilities, be they clergy or laypeople. People involved in such things often have to travel long distances from a variety of locations, and balancing these special Masses with everyday tasks inside and outside of the Church is not easy.